2.4L Engine noise on cold start-up, CRV AND Accord
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Thread: 2.4L Engine noise on cold start-up, CRV AND Accord

  1. #1
    crv|oc Rank: Sophomore
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    2.4L Engine noise on cold start-up, CRV AND Accord

    Dear Honda,

    I'm a new owner of a 2014 Honda CRV EX. This is the 4th Honda vehicle and 5th Honda product my family has purchased. My Mom has also purchased a 2014 CRV EX-L, this is her 3rd CRV.

    I purchased another Honda due to your reputation for reliabiliy and quality control. You also have a reputation for stepping up to take care of your customers in every possible way, which I really apprecaite.

    To say I'm extremly dissapointed that my brand new, 2014 CRV with 200 miles on it has an engine noise on cold-start up would be an understatement. If you search You Tube, for "2012 Honda CRV, Cold start noise" you will hear exactly what noise I'm referring to. Through research, I've found that this problem affects all recent model 2.4L engines, CRV's and Accords. It's a metal on metal sound, like a grinding noise, or to me sounds like the timing chain is hitting the valve cover.

    I called my local Honda dealer who told me this noise is normal and that he could go out on his lot and start several random 2.4L Accords or CRV's and they would likely make the noise. He told me his personal 2013 Accord 2.4l does it, as does the dealershiop's general manager's new Accord! It lasts for a second or so and then is gone. Clearly this is a known problem. I also heard videos of several 2008 Accords making the same noise. I have 23+ years of mechanical experience working on a variety of makes and models and I can ASSURE you the noice is NOT normal.

    The noise is brief, lasting a second or so, and if you get in the car with all doors closed you cannot hear it. You can only her it if you crank the car with the doors open (I had to warm it one day after a snow event which is the first I heard it), so a LARGE number of people probably are totally unaware it's even occuring.

    With Honda's reputation for quality and reliability, how in the world has this problem gone on for the past 6 years without Honda getting to the root of the problem and addressing it? I understand the problem gets progressively worse and eventually will stretch the timing chain. I cannot believe that with all of your engineering and R&D, the cause of this noise has not been identified and a repair outlined.

    I have found that in the morning, if you cycle the ignition key to the on position, then off for a moment, then back on and leave it on for a few seconds before cranking, it sometimes does not make the noise. I'm not intimately familiar with the 2.4L engine so I'm not sure what issue that would point towards, but hopefully that may give your engineer's a place to start. Occasionally it will not make the noise if I turn the key on, then wait a few seconds, then crank, however when I tried that tecnique after work yesterday, it still made the noise.

    Honda, if you want to save your reputation for quality and reliabiliy, invest the time necessary to identify the exact cause of this problem and institute a re-call for all models affected. I really like my CRV, but after investing $26,000+ on a new vehcile, to have one that makes engine noise just because it's cold out when you first start it, is completly unacceptable.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by GsCRV; 01-08-2014 at 01:22 PM.

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  3. #2
    crv|oc Rank: Sophomore
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    Update: In addition to making my dealer aware of this issue I also sent a fax to American Honda Customer Service. I received ONE call back from "Walter" at American Honda asking me to call him to further discuss. I left him a voice message that night and provided the VIN for my car on the voice message and asked him to call me back.

    I have called several times the past few days and always get his voice mail and have yet to receive a return phone call. I certinly hope this is not going to become the new normal for Honda, who historically has provided great customer service and who steps up to make things right with their customers.

  4. #3
    crv|oc Rank: Senior
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    Keep us posted if you get a call back from Honda and what they say. I'm all for writing to them also if you make some headway.
    2013 EX-L White Diamond Pearl

    hood deflector | running boards | splash guards | tailgate spoiler | body side molding | chrome exhaust tip | chrome tailgate garnish | engine cover | weathertech window visors | weathertech cargo liner | husky weatherbeater floor liners | lower bumper steel mesh insert | low tone horn | philips daylight 4 led drl | civic si style wheels | cross bars


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  6. #4
    crv|oc Rank: Sophomore
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    Having not received a call from Walter in Customer Service I called back again and waited on hold for 15 minutes before I was connected with another CSR, who eventually transferred me to Walter.
    I had left him a prior message indicating I had spoken to my local service manager who told me the noise was normal and I didn't want the car worked on for now.
    However, after giving this matter more thought, I at least want it documented that I have this issue in case it becomes worse down the line. I was told I have to bring my car into the shop so the issue can be documented, since the dealer says the noise is normal (we all know metal on metal noises from an engine, especally a brand new car is not normal).
    I was told once they document the problem, they can get with Honda's R&D team to see if any solutions are being worked on.

    At this point I may just wait till the first oil change. In order for the problem to be heard by the dealer, I would have to leave it there overnight and return in the morning. I have very mixed feelings at this point. Noone should have to deal with this kind of issue on a brand new vehicle, let alone a Honda.

    I almost feel like they want us all to bury our heads in the sand and pretend the sound is not there so we will all eventually just give up and accept their word that this is a normal sound. Noone is going to tell me ANY metal on metal sound coming from an engine is normal, or not causing some sort of damage in one way or another.

    Hindsight being what it is, had I had any idea that I would have this issue, I would have never purchased this car. I love it, it's well designed, seems built well and it's comfortable, but we all know the engine is the heart of any vehcile and to have an issue with it already at 200 miles doesn not give me a feeling of confidence in it going forward.

  7. #5
    crv|oc Rank: Senior
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    I'm also waiting for my fist oil change which is coming up real soon. I have the service bulletin printed out and the sound recorded on my phone. I too just want it documented at this point because if they can't replicate it themselves I know they won't want to do anything.

    I will let you know what they say when I take it for the oil change.
    2013 EX-L White Diamond Pearl

    hood deflector | running boards | splash guards | tailgate spoiler | body side molding | chrome exhaust tip | chrome tailgate garnish | engine cover | weathertech window visors | weathertech cargo liner | husky weatherbeater floor liners | lower bumper steel mesh insert | low tone horn | philips daylight 4 led drl | civic si style wheels | cross bars


  8. #6
    crv|oc Rank: Sophomore
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  9. #7
    crv|oc Rank: Senior
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    Fortunately I haven't got to experience this issue or the dead battery...yet.

  10. #8
    crv|oc Rank: Sophomore
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    Thanks for the link, I actually found that one when searching on google the other day.

    Intersetingly enough, today, it was in the 20's in my garage, I just did the "Key on, don't crank, wait, then crank and no noise." It seems when it's sitting outside after work that I get the noise if I don't cycle the key twice.

    I did some additonal research on this issue last night and I found a very good you tube video that throughly explains the VCT system and how it operates. I think I have a good idea what the issue is, but can't say for sure.

    In addition to the VCT actuator on the Intake cam, which is a hydraullically operated part based on oil pressure, there is a "VCT solenoid/valve" in the system. This valve moves fore and aft and directs oil to the actuator on the camshaft. Depending on conditions, this solenoid/valve will direct oil to passages in the cylinder head to either advance or retard cam timing.

    What I suspect, since turning the key on or key on, off, on then crank, is that the solenoid/valve is not in the correct position when we try to start our engines in cold weather. This valve also has ports in it to bleed off oil pressure, so it makes sense that when we cycle our keys, it's changing the position of this VCT solenoid/valve in such a manner that it allows proper oil pressure to reach the VCT acutator on the camshaft and hence no noise.

    Are you reading this Honda? I hope so and I hope this gives you more to go on. It would seem the opening and position of this VCT Solenoid/oil valve could be programmed to be in the position it comes to rest in by us cycling our keys and resolve this problem.

    In my mind, since clearly cycling the key affects this issue, the issue must be one that is influenced by the electrical system and that solenoid valve controls oil pressure to the VCT actuator on the cam.

    I think perhaps when others have had them changed, the tighter tolerances in the new VCT actuator masks the problem for a few months, but once things break in and a little bit of wear developes, the problem returns.

    At least that is what I'm seeing right now.....

  11. #9
    crv|oc Rank: Sophomore
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    Unfortunately there is no evidence anyone at Honda is aware of this, while they do have a "social media team".

    Over on the Ridgeline Owners Club we do have an occasional Honda Corporate Media Team surface but it's all marketing purpose, not customer problems or technical maintenance

  12. #10
    crv|oc Rank: Senior
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    Nice write up Gs. Makes sense as to why the key trick would work if the electrical system is involved. Mine made the sound this morning when I forgot the ritual and just cranked it. In looking around at other forums for Hondas, Toyotas, etc. I'm surprised how far back this issue goes and a permanent fix hasn't been found. That's the disappointing part, not that this happens because all good car makers can have issues.
    2013 EX-L White Diamond Pearl

    hood deflector | running boards | splash guards | tailgate spoiler | body side molding | chrome exhaust tip | chrome tailgate garnish | engine cover | weathertech window visors | weathertech cargo liner | husky weatherbeater floor liners | lower bumper steel mesh insert | low tone horn | philips daylight 4 led drl | civic si style wheels | cross bars


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