My K-n-N drop in filter "results"

[connermt]

There has been much talk about how useful a hi-flo air filter is. I have had some type of hi-flo filter on my last 4 or 5 vehicles so I bought one for the CRV as well. Here is what I found, on a 1-5 scale (1 = bad or no improvement, 5 = good or much improvement):
1) Improved throttle response. From a stand still, there appears to be a little more throttle response. Meaning when I press the gas from a stop, the car responds a little quicker. How much quicker? With the correct equipment I imagine there could be measurements taken, but without equipment, it is from a well calibrated "butt'. Could it be that I believe it is quicker while it really isn't (placebo)? Possibly. Never-the-less, there does seem to be some type of improvement. I give it a 2
2) Gas MPG. Since I installed it, I haven't ran my typical weekly course, so I can't say for sure if there has been any basic MPG improvement. That said, my AVG MPG does a couple things: A) the AVG MPG figures increase quicker while cruising, B) the AVG MPG doesn't decrease as quickly while in stop-n-go traffic, C) reading only the AVG MPG, I am seeing a 1-2 AVG MPG increase (but I always do my own when I fill up anyway) & D) my instant MPG bar seems to hold at a more steady 30 MPG than it did previously. Being that I haven't ran my typical circuit (yet), I can't compare true apples to apples comparison, but it does seem to be giving me 1-2 more MPG based upon the meter, so I will give it a 2, with that caveat.
3) Increase power. I didn't dyno it before or after, so I don't know how much (if any) increase in HP that happened. However, I do notice much improved performance (umph) above 4K RPM. I give this a 5.
4) Shifting down a gear. An unexpected benefit (which most 07 owners will appreciate) is less tranny shifting. But before we get all excited, let me explain. While cruising in top gear, slight inclines (the inclines that caused your car to downshift when you didn't expect it - 07 owners know what I am talking about) will cause the 07 tranny to drop a gear. With the filter, I noticed that slight inclines what previously caused the car to drop a gear, now don't have much of an effect. I can go up many of these inclines w/o auto dropping a gear. That said, only the slightest inclines seem to be effected. So I give this a 2, simply because that was an unexpected result
5) Shifting down multiple gears. One thing that irritates me about the 07, is that while cruising in top gear, to pass someone, the tranny down shifts one gear at a time (5-> 4then-> 3, instead of 5 -> 3). While the filter doesn't eliminate this 5-4-3 shifting, it does seem to make the response to the 5-4-3 shifting some what quicker. Another placebo? Maybe, but at least it seems to be of benefit. Again, I give it another 2, simply because there seems to be a difference, but can't be measured by my well calibrated bottom.
6) Engine noise. Some people have said a simple drop-in filter will increase engine "noise", which can result in what seems to be increased performance. I noticed no increase in engine noise. The only time I have seen an increase in engine noise with a hi-flo filter is if it is used in conjunction with a CAI or SRI. I don't have that on my CRV, so I can't see any noise increase. I give it a 1
7) Installation. Four or 5 clips & the old filter is out & the new one in. I give that a 5.
8) Appearance. This one kinda' shocked me. The stock filter is twice as thick as the K-n-N. The stock one had what appeared to be a double-decker-type of filtration system. One layer seemed to be typical paper, while the other seemed to be a thicker plastic-like substance. No numerical results for this category.

Given, all these above items are simply based upon my experience; nothing has been measured officially.

[2RedV's]

There has been much talk about how useful a hi-flo air filter is. I have had some type of hi-flo filter on my last 4 or 5 vehicles so I bought one for the CRV as well. Here is what I found, on a 1-5 scale (1 = bad or no improvement, 5 = good or much improvement):
1) Improved throttle response. From a stand still, there appears to be a little more throttle response. Meaning when I press the gas from a stop, the car responds a little quicker. How much quicker? With the correct equipment I imagine there could be measurements taken, but without equipment, it is from a well calibrated "butt'. Could it be that I believe it is quicker while it really isn't (placebo)? Possibly. Never-the-less, there does seem to be some type of improvement. I give it a 2
2) Gas MPG. Since I installed it, I haven't ran my typical weekly course, so I can't say for sure if there has been any basic MPG improvement. That said, my AVG MPG does a couple things: A) the AVG MPG figures increase quicker while cruising, B) the AVG MPG doesn't decrease as quickly while in stop-n-go traffic, C) reading only the AVG MPG, I am seeing a 1-2 AVG MPG increase (but I always do my own when I fill up anyway) & D) my instant MPG bar seems to hold at a more steady 30 MPG than it did previously. Being that I haven't ran my typical circuit (yet), I can't compare true apples to apples comparison, but it does seem to be giving me 1-2 more MPG based upon the meter, so I will give it a 2, with that caveat.
3) Increase power. I didn't dyno it before or after, so I don't know how much (if any) increase in HP that happened. However, I do notice much improved performance (umph) above 4K RPM. I give this a 5.
4) Shifting down a gear. An unexpected benefit (which most 07 owners will appreciate) is less tranny shifting. But before we get all excited, let me explain. While cruising in top gear, slight inclines (the inclines that caused your car to downshift when you didn't expect it - 07 owners know what I am talking about) will cause the 07 tranny to drop a gear. With the filter, I noticed that slight inclines what previously caused the car to drop a gear, now don't have much of an effect. I can go up many of these inclines w/o auto dropping a gear. That said, only the slightest inclines seem to be effected. So I give this a 2, simply because that was an unexpected result
5) Shifting down multiple gears. One thing that irritates me about the 07, is that while cruising in top gear, to pass someone, the tranny down shifts one gear at a time (5-> 4then-> 3, instead of 5 -> 3). While the filter doesn't eliminate this 5-4-3 shifting, it does seem to make the response to the 5-4-3 shifting some what quicker. Another placebo? Maybe, but at least it seems to be of benefit. Again, I give it another 2, simply because there seems to be a difference, but can't be measured by my well calibrated bottom.
6) Engine noise. Some people have said a simple drop-in filter will increase engine "noise", which can result in what seems to be increased performance. I noticed no increase in engine noise. The only time I have seen an increase in engine noise with a hi-flo filter is if it is used in conjunction with a CAI or SRI. I don't have that on my CRV, so I can't see any noise increase. I give it a 1
7) Installation. Four or 5 clips & the old filter is out & the new one in. I give that a 5.
8) Appearance. This one kinda' shocked me. The stock filter is twice as thick as the K-n-N. The stock one had what appeared to be a double-decker-type of filtration system. One layer seemed to be typical paper, while the other seemed to be a thicker plastic-like substance. No numerical results for this category.

Given, all these above items are simply based upon my experience; nothing has been measured officially.

Nice write-up.

:)

[joeeew]

Yes, very nice write up indeed. But overall, would you recommend for us to change the filter?

[Black Pearl]

With the improved performance and your observations on the filter media, do you believe that filter may not be as effective as the stock filter?


I like the improved performance at the top end and the better gas mileage. Is there a web page on this filter?


And yes, great write-up!

[1ownerT]

K&N's are known to pass more dirt than a paper filter. High flow comes at the sacrifice of filtering ability.
That being said, I have run them on nearly every car I have owned over the last 25+ years. I partially justify it by not ever driving on gravel roads.
http://www.kandn.com

[connermt]

Yes, very nice write up indeed. But overall, would you recommend for us to change the filter?

This is how I see it:
1) I have used K-n-Ns (& other types of hi-flo filters) for years over several different cars for 200K+ miles total & have seen no damage or issues with them &
2) For the CRV, it only costs about $42.

By no means should my indicated 'results' be taken as gospel or anything, but being that it was only $42 (& I kept the stock one around just in case), to me, it was worth it.
Doing simple math & barring no damage done by, or because of, the filter, I put this together. If I drive an average of 22K miles per year (which is my target so far):
@ 20 MPG with stock filter, @ $3/gallon = $3300/year in gas
@ 21 MPG wtih K-n-N filter, (simple increase of 1MPG), @ $3/gallon = $3144/year in gas.
So for $42 investment, I would have saved $156, or almost 4 times what the filter cost.

[connermt]

With the improved performance and your observations on the filter media, do you believe that filter may not be as effective as the stock filter?


I like the improved performance at the top end and the better gas mileage. Is there a web page on this filter?


And yes, great write-up!

If you GOOGLE KnN filters, you can find some info on them.
As far as stock vs KnN, it seems that the KnN has some improvements, but I don't have any official numbers to back it up
To be fair, most KnN results I have seen have most improvements in the higher RMP band (4K or above). That seems to be what I experience. That said, how often would I use the 4K+ RMP range? Probably not too often. But if it can increase my MPG, & being that it only cost $42, it might well be worth it simply from that fact alone.

[connermt]

K&N's are known to pass more dirt than a paper filter. High flow comes at the sacrifice of filtering ability.
That being said, I have run them on nearly every car I have owned over the last 25+ years. I partially justify it by not ever driving on gravel roads.
http://www.kandn.com

Exactly. Even ont he KnN website it mentions that more air-flow can equate to less effective filtration. People just have to be careful not to over-do it.
I have see people run cars w/o any filter! Crazy? I think so, but hey, it's not my car, so.....

[Black Pearl]

If you GOOGLE KnN filters, you can find some info on them.
As far as stock vs KnN, it seems that the KnN has some improvements, but I don't have any official numbers to back it up
To be fair, most KnN results I have seen have most improvements in the higher RMP band (4K or above). That seems to be what I experience. That said, how often would I use the 4K+ RMP range? Probably not too often. But if it can increase my MPG, & being that it only cost $42, it might well be worth it simply from that fact alone.

In the fair state of Ohio, you have highway engineers that design roads with accelleration ramps. In the wonderful Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, we don't believe in wasting the taxpayers money on accelleration ramps, we would rather line the politicians pockets. And for the thrill of entering our best highway The Pennsylvania Turnpike (America's first Superhighway) we actually charge you money. Yes, I'll get off my soap box and get back on topic, but let's say that for interstate driving in Pennsylvania high end performance boosts may have an intellectual interest as well as a macho bravado. I like your math on the mpg. Can we get your butt calibrated by NIST?

I am going to have to check this out. Keep us updated on your mileage figures. Also what was the type and part number of your K&N filter?

[connermt]

In the fair state of Ohio, you have highway engineers that design roads with accelleration ramps. In the wonderful Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, we don't believe in wasting the taxpayers money on accelleration ramps, we would rather line the politicians pockets. And for the thrill of entering our best highway The Pennsylvania Turnpike (America's first Superhighway) we actually charge you money. Yes, I'll get off my soap box and get back on topic, but let's say that for interstate driving in Pennsylvania high end performance boosts may have an intellectual interest as well as a macho bravado. I like your math on the mpg. Can we get your butt calibrated by NIST?

I am going to have to check this out. Keep us updated on your mileage figures. Also what was the type and part number of your K&N filter?
Well, I don't think they would want to calibrate my bum, but who knows these days....(maybe that's what they mean by "butt-dyno"...?)
The filter was just a drop-in type; part # 33-2337. I had to order it online. I can't remember right now where I got it from (it was something like paylater.com or buynowpaylater.com...?). I will try to find it once I get home. No stores had that part # showing as existing in my area. K-n-N website has it listed, but didn't have it showing for sale at the time (although they might now).
Some people might want to try greenfilter.com as well. They are suppose to flo better than K-n-N. I used both on my last car & the green filter seemed to eliminate throttle over-boost better than the K-n-N - not sure that would mean any difference to a NA car though.
There are also some dry filters out there that might have something available.

[Black Pearl]

Well, I don't think they would want to calibrate my bum, but who knows these days....(maybe that's what they mean by "butt-dyno"...?)
The filter was just a drop-in type; part # 33-2337. I had to order it online. I can't remember right now where I got it from (it was something like paylater.com or buynowpaylater.com...?). I will try to find it once I get home. No stores had that part # showing as existing in my area. K-n-N website has it listed, but didn't have it showing for sale at the time (although they might now).
Some people might want to try greenfilter.com as well. They are suppose to flo better than K-n-N. I used both on my last car & the green filter seemed to eliminate throttle over-boost better than the K-n-N - not sure that would mean any difference to a NA car though.
There are also some dry filters out there that might have something available.

Hmmm! Interesting. Now all I have to do is to develop a big enough pair of...I mean develop the intestinal fortitude to actually buy the damn thing & try it. I get queasy with variance from stock. Thanks for the info and keep us posted on the results.

[connermt]

My first fill up with the K-n-N filter (with Shell 87):
I filled up Saturday, after one week of normal driving with the K-n-N filter.
I got 23.2 MPG AVG (figured manually). That is a tad over 1.1MPG more than normal. That said, this was the very first week of driving my normal route with the filter - more weeks will be needed to get a better, more accurate average.
But that will take a while, because I had to fill up with BP 87 (which has always given me poor MPG), so this next week I won't be able to compare apples-to-apples.
More updates to come!
On a side note, I did outrun a Caddy Cateria last night from light to light
Woman didn't want to let me over in my turn lane, so I took it!
HAHA
Hopefully, she wasn't trying very hard to keep me out of the lane. If she was, I feel bad for that Caddy

[ottomaticjack]

True the high flow filters filter less....when comparing to a stock honda filter which is filtration to the point of clinical sterility I think the drop in is probably fine...it's doubtful that it's something that will kill your engine unless you happen to be driving in sandy/dirt/gravel roads a great deal. Further unless you are running a conical high flow that is open to the air (IE CAI or SRI) then you don't have to worry about the dirt and dust getting through the veritable maze of resonation chambers and passages in the Stock intake tract, not to mention that that very maze is what keeps you from hearing any change in intake sound from that drop in filter. Overall moral.....they're worth it if you feel like they are....is it a magic bullet? No, not hardly but if you care to try it...try it. If you are worried....why bother.

Just my .02

[2RedV's]

An interesting test here:

Air filter test (http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm)
.

[Sandpebble]

If the air is pushed from a low spot in the front grill it will be colder.Colder air gives more HP. Forcing in more air that is cold is the best to help HP. Of course good fuel helps too. The change from stock air filter element is asking for dirty air. That's why the filter on the CRV is so big. It takes in air over a greater surface than most other four cylinders that I have seen. If the intake is moved to a spot in the lower front grill,and changed to a metalic tube,(as they help cool the air), as the vehicle acccelerates it creates forced induction. That supercharges the air flow without using a pump as a supercharger does. Then there is the electronic sensors that mix the air and fuel by the directions of the computer. If the computer is reflashed to react for more power,it will tell the sensors to change the mixture for desired results. Of course if it is outside regulated government specifcations it's illegal. Some reflashes are legal and recommended to improve performance,such as shifting transmissions faster for quicker lock up which gives more MPG. I'm happy with my 2006 set up wouldn't change a thing as far as air fow is concerned. The big problem I have is the inerta sensor allowing it to be engaged when I'm trying to stop. I think that needs to be reflashed so when you brake it is not causing acceleration.

[2RedV's]

The CR-V's stock air intake brings in cooler air from near the front fender. The factory plastic intake will do a better job in keeping the air cool than a metal tube running thru the hot engine bay.

You may have been thinking of a true ram air setup, which does not exist for the CR-V, even in aftermarket form.

[tsmithvt]

An interesting test here:

Air filter test (http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm)
.

The referenced independent test says it all. These test results are getting into all the forums, Honda and otherwise. Won't be good for K&N. Note that the tests were run to ISO 5011/SAE J726 standards.

[Sandpebble]

Plastic is very porous and heats up opening the pours slowing the air. Metal intake is much smoother and not pourous. Ask any dog owner that uses a plastic bowl to look at the dogs nose, it's all pink, from the plastic rubbing the skin off. The metal dog dishes do not do this as they are smooth. They also keep water cooler than plastic. The engine heat is mostly at the exhaust ,the intake comes in near the fender. The aftermarket products are perhaps not available for the CRV but a custom unit would work. The whole point was that the stock air filter is fine, if you want better performance go cold ram air metalic,and forget the less restrictive filter. Reflashing is how you change the power as it is limited by factory settings for air quality standards.

[ottomaticjack]

See now...one of the things you're missing though.....plastic is better as there is less heat soak....causing the intake air temperature to rise, causing lower power. Yes, putting the air filter outside the engine bay or by the fender works....and yes a great deal of them are aluminum but it isn't because aluminum or steel work better, but are easier to work with.

Also, most of the engine heat being at the exhaust.....are you talking at the outlet of the muffler or the exhaust port of the engine? if you are speaking of the former, then you are incorrect...if you are speaking of the latter, then you are correct....a great deal of the heat comes from the exhaust manifold and with the K series engines Honda rotated the engine causing the intake tract to be on the front keeping engine temperatures a bit lower, and putting the exhaust manifold against the firewall......as far as an ECU reflash....it's legal and not fantastically expensive...check any of the RSX and TSX forums....they've been working with K engines for a while and the one under the hood of the V is little different. Further, unless they've changed a good number of laws (excluding California, which has some very stringent emissions laws regarding the aftermarket community....most of which were created by people that couldn't tell the difference between a drive shaft and a cam shaft) changing the engine management system isn't illegal...

[Sandpebble]

OTTo,thanks for the input on reflash. The intake however is not being suggested to have a filter at the grill, just a port. The better systems use crome plated alloy. Plastic is just cheaper and does not conduct electricity for safety vs metal. The whole subject realy is to get more power,as some people don't like the Honda power set up. I have no problem with my 156hp set up. But when I go from relative flat driving to mountain driving it realy becomes obvious it's lacking. Hoping the newer US Hondas go to Diesel for more torque and still great MPG. Perhaps the transmissions can be given a tweek too.

[ottomaticjack]

The pipes are polished aluminum, and they do not use plastic for lack of electrical conductivity, and frankly the higher end systems are generally powdercoated.

I wasn't advocating putting the filter in the grill, just that it was mentioned.

I like the Honda set up....but always want more performance out of cars, and the K series engines are fantastic power bases.

They are unlikely to switch to diesel here as the US market doesn't prefer it other than for Trucks. The european market however is rife with diesel applications.

[Sandpebble]

The requirements for polution for gas and diesel engine production will be the same in US soon.That's why all the US manufactures are now entering the diesel engine manufacture business. GM has stated soon the diesel engine will be used in most of their vehicles. Chrysler has decided to build diesels in Europe and import them to US. The thaught that Honda would not have competing diesel engines is ilogical. Since Honda already has diesels in Europe, if they meet the US air polution standards they will be in US. There has been talk about the French manufacturing a 3 cylinder diesel with electric that gets 80MPG US. As for metals in air intakes, I don't think aluminum is the only metals used, it's to soft and more expensive than alloys,which may be partial aluminum. The diesels have a better torque rating per engine diplacement than gas, due to the higher compression, and would be desired for more power. The only negative for diesel in US is the current cost is higher than gasoline. The current price 10/9/07 in US average is $2.77 for gas and $2.89 /gallon US for diesel. I know Europe is much higher but the Euro buys about $1.38/US $1.00. The diesel supplies should increase in US, but because it is refined for low polution, it may remain higher than gasoline for a while. Warnings have been issued to fueling as the pumps will have old diesel and new diesel. Older vehicles can use new fuel but new diesels must use only the new diesel fuel. The new diesel fuel will cost more.

[ottomaticjack]

ok, I give up, you can have your opinion.

Oh, but for the record.....the big three auto manufacturers have made diesels for 25+ years. Chrysler has been a part of Daimler Benz for decades....IE any diesel mercedes are chrysler...eg: the crossfire is a knockoff of a mercedes.

Ok, now I'm through with discussion....everyone have a nice night, now.
;)

[2RedV's]

I guess no one realizes Honda has already announced that the CR-V will have a diesel in 09 in the US....

That Jeep has a V6 diesel available in the Grand Cherokee for 2007's (215 horses and 376-pound-feet of torque)

[ottomaticjack]

hadn't heard that...but I'm happy to hear it. Honda had seemed consitently reticent to try diesels in the US market.

[frehau]

I thought I'd fill you inn on the CR-V diesel engine used in europe: Its a 2.2CDTi made by honda, and I think they started using it in the 06' models. They also use this engine in other honda models. It beats all the other diesels (rav4, suzuki grand vitara and so on) on emissions, MPG and performance. It feels more like a normal gas engine, without your typical diesel behavior and noise. It has a wider range in RPM than what you will find in other diesel engins. In the new CR-V 4wd it gives you 36 MPG US on average driving/mixed driving (not just highway). 140 HP @ 4000 rpm, 340 Nm of Torque (250.78 ft.lbs) @ 2000 rpm with a 6 speed manual tranny. 0-100 kmh (0-62,1mph) in 10,2 sek.

NOTE: I take no responsebility for any errors in the figures caused by the converters for liters to gallons, km to miles and Nm to ft.lbs used from various websites.

[1ownerT]

ok, I give up, you can have your opinion.

Oh, but for the record.....the big three auto manufacturers have made diesels for 25+ years. Chrysler has been a part of Daimler Benz for decades....IE any diesel mercedes are chrysler...eg: the crossfire is a knockoff of a mercedes.

Ok, now I'm through with discussion....everyone have a nice night, now.
;)

That would be decade. The merger took place in 1998.
There are no Mercedes using Chrysler diesels, the Germans perfected the diesel many years ago, the Americans are still trying.

[Davecr-v]

In the fair state of Ohio, you have highway engineers that design roads with accelleration ramps. In the wonderful Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, we don't believe in wasting the taxpayers money on accelleration ramps, we would rather line the politicians pockets. And for the thrill of entering our best highway The Pennsylvania Turnpike (America's first Superhighway) we actually charge you money. Yes, I'll get off my soap box and get back on topic, but let's say that for interstate driving in Pennsylvania high end performance boosts may have an intellectual interest as well as a macho bravado. I like your math on the mpg. Can we get your butt calibrated by NIST?

I am going to have to check this out. Keep us updated on your mileage figures. Also what was the type and part number of your K&N filter?

Yeah whats up with that in PA there are no ramps onto the highways its almost just stop, floor it and pray. But why cant honda put a manual mode in their cars for that tranny problem it would make this SUV so much better in bad conditions and the highway.

[hkxstyle]

http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12877#post12877

Group buy for 40 shipped.

[ottomaticjack]

That would be decade. The merger took place in 1998.
There are no Mercedes using Chrysler diesels, the Germans perfected the diesel many years ago, the Americans are still trying.

I was not aware it was that recent, but I stand corrected none-the-less.

[Lucio@KNFilters]

An interesting test here:

Air filter test (http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm)
.

There is much misleading information on the web in respect to air filtration including the Spicer report linked to this thread. The people making such claims are not accountable for them and the web enables them to distribute this misinformation at random. K&N does not have the luxury of not being held accountable. K&N has a legal and moral responsibility to the consumer and we take it seriously. See K&N Consumer Protection Pledge (http://knfilters.com/MAF/massairpledge.htm). K&N operates an ISO compliant test facility on a daily year round basis where we test our air filters in accordance with the ISO 5011 Test Protocol to ensure they will protect your engine as well as help your car run better. Furthermore, we are proud to have complete control of our product quality by doing our testing, development and manufacturing in California. Not only have we sold in excess of 20 million air filters worldwide but we continue to be used by many of the top racing teams throughout the world including the winners of the 2007 Baja 1000 and Baja 500 (and the 2008 Daytona 500).