transmission help!

[fizzala]

I received no replies from my last post :(
Still have a few questions regarding changing the tranny fluid. Originally we were planning on having it flushed with one of those machines and replacing it with synthetic fluid. However now after reading this forum, maybe that isn't a good thing? I've read we should NOT flush the transmission and should only use the Honda fluid. Can anyone tell me why the trans shouldn't be flushed? I would think there is no way all the old fluid will get out unless its properly flushed. Even filling and draining 3x wouldn't flush it all out, or would it? I am also wondering what the capacity is, looking in the owners manual for 2WD it has 3.1 qt but then has under that a total of 6.9 qt, whats that mean, where does the other 3.8 come from anyway?
If it really holds 6.9 qt, draining and filling 3x will be pretty expensive!

[Carvingbarn]

Over on the EOC Forum There is a tread on flushing trans. It is showing a Honda Service note. It says that Transmission power flush systems are NOT approved or recommended for Honda Auto/trans becouse many of these flush systems require or encourage the use of solvent ,additives, or non-Honda ATF. I think I saw in another post that Honda had a new hand pump that got out most of the fluids and that is what they recomended. I am sure there are others out there that can tell you more. I am new here too.

[Black Pearl]

This is 2RedVs territory but I will try to shed a bit of light, but take my comments with a grain of salt because I am going by what I have read here and not by any knowledge.

Don't flush the transmission. It back flushes an internal screen and sets loose captured debris.

See 2RedVs comments in this thread:

http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1076

The transmission has a fill capacity when it is manufactured or rebuilt of some given amount (I have an 07 which is probably different). However when you drain the transmission, you only drain the portion of the total fluid volume that resides in the bottom reservoir, the remainder distributed throughout the transmission is not removed. Hence the fill and drain three times. Each drain & refill is for the smaller amount of fluid not the entire volume. From the numbers you stated you would need 9.3 quarts total. I would also assume that you would want to drive the car some interval between each fill and drain, otherwise you would be just draining the clean fluid that you just put in. I don't know what that interval is, but my guess would be at least 10 to 20 miles to mix the new fluid with old. If you assume 100% mixing (and I don't know if that is a proper assumption), after the first oil change, using the numbers you gave, you would have 45% new and 55% old. After the second oil change 69% new 31% old. After the third oil change you would have 83% new and 17% old. Thus you are not getting 100% of the old oil and each further change gives diminishing returns. My guess is that while not 100%, it is adequate. But again, take my comments with a grain of salt.

[2RedV's]

I received no replies from my last post :(
Still have a few questions regarding changing the tranny fluid. Originally we were planning on having it flushed with one of those machines and replacing it with synthetic fluid. However now after reading this forum, maybe that isn't a good thing? I've read we should NOT flush the transmission and should only use the Honda fluid. Can anyone tell me why the trans shouldn't be flushed? I would think there is no way all the old fluid will get out unless its properly flushed. Even filling and draining 3x wouldn't flush it all out, or would it? I am also wondering what the capacity is, looking in the owners manual for 2WD it has 3.1 qt but then has under that a total of 6.9 qt, whats that mean, where does the other 3.8 come from anyway?
If it really holds 6.9 qt, draining and filling 3x will be pretty expensive!Sorry you didn't receive any replies soon enough, but you posted at nearly 11:30pm my time. :(
Like the others said, absolutely no flushing and only use real Honda ZL-1 fluid. 2002-2006 procedures are identical. You only need to move the tranny thru all of the gears, including reverse between the drain and fills. The dealer would simply run the car for a minute or maybe two while on a lift.
To be safe, buy 10 quarts.
The torque convertor holds the extra fluid. Doing a 3x drain and fill will essentially get 99% of the old fluid out.
It is very easy to do one's self.

[Dahmer]

ok now how would onesself manage to complete a transmission fluid change on say... a '98?

[2RedV's]

ok now how would onesself manage to complete a transmission fluid change on say... a '98?No different than a 1999, 2002, 2006,2007...

Here is a video that may help out. Remember though, that the 2nd gen engine/tranny is backwards in the engine bay from the 1st gen (97-2001) Still, same basic principles, just reversed.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6kbS5mo4mc

.

Here, once again, is the link to Honda's publication that mentions NO FLUSHING! Page 4.

Honda Service News (http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/a060200.PDF)

I thought I should add the text so that those who do not click on the link can see it as well:

Flush Systems: A Big Taboo
In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the
systems that handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and
power steering, are designed to give thousands of
miles of trouble-free service if you follow the
maintenance schedule to the letter.
Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering
these days. These products look impressive and
make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly
recommends you avoid using them on any Honda
vehicle. Here’s why:
• The maintenance schedule neither requires
nor approves of aftermarket flush systems.
• Flush systems take time to do; this adds to
your service customer’s wait time.
• Flush systems haven’t demonstrated an
improvement in vehicle performance or
reliability.
• Flush systems using solvents may leave
solvent in the system you’re flushing. This will
dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its
performance.
• Flush systems using filters can filter out vital
additives and degrade the fluid’s or lubricant’s
performance. This is particularly true for
coolant.
• Any damage caused by flush systems isn’t
covered by warranty.
.

[Whitlow]

No filter change when you change trans fluid??????

[2RedV's]

No filter change when you change trans fluid??????Nope. The filter is an internal screen. This is why backflushing the auto trans is a BIG NO-NO. A backflush (like the normal rapid change places do) will cause the material/junk to get dispersed throughout your transmission, causing more problems than you will want to have.

[HankinVA]

I have always flushed all of my vehicals and have never had a problem.

The system used is not Back Flushing buts simply connecting the system in series allowing the system to use the same fluid flow direction changing all of the fluid using Honda certified fluid.

Use your common sense changeing three quarts Verses all the Fluid Hmmmm?

I have 7 dealers around the Washington DC area and only 2 have the proper system and perform the transmission flush (Not Drain and Fill) The rest all feed the same garbage i.e.. the harmfull solvents used in the system... honda does not provide the machine and does not recomend BLAA BLAA BLAA BS !!!

Most the dealers out there claiming this is an issue obviously do not have the expensive equipment to properly perform this task and or either want to spend the money for the proper equipment (CHEAP). They would rather gauge their customers by chargeing $125 - $175 to drain and fill three quarts of fluid each time you come in and recomend thats what is required every 15 K miles. (What a SCAM)

My advise is for you is to do what I have done...find a Honda dealer that has the equipment and uses Honda fluid... you will not have any problem.

(Note just make sure that they are using Honda certified fluid at honda dealer. That should not be an issue)

Did you know that some CRV transmissions have a drain plug just like the engine oil and you do not have to pay a dealer just drain the oil out and fill it your self. make sure you start the engine before you check the OIL.

[2RedV's]

I have always flushed all of my vehicals and have never had a problem.

The system used is not Back Flushing buts simply connecting the system in series allowing the system to use the same fluid flow direction changing all of the fluid using Honda certified fluid.

Use your common sense changeing three quarts Verses all the Fluid Hmmmm?

I have 7 dealers around the Washington DC area and only 2 have the proper system and perform the transmission flush (Not Drain and Fill) The rest all feed the same garbage i.e.. the harmfull solvents used in the system... honda does not provide the machine and does not recomend BLAA BLAA BLAA BS !!!

Most the dealers out there claiming this is an issue obviously do not have the expensive equipment to properly perform this task and or either want to spend the money for the proper equipment (CHEAP). They would rather gauge their customers by chargeing $125 - $175 to drain and fill three quarts of fluid each time you come in and recomend thats what is required every 15 K miles. (What a SCAM)

My advise is for you is to do what I have done...find a Honda dealer that has the equipment and uses Honda fluid... you will not have any problem.

(Note just make sure that they are using Honda certified fluid at honda dealer. That should not be an issue)

Did you know that some CRV transmissions have a drain plug just like the engine oil and you do not have to pay a dealer just drain the oil out and fill it your self. make sure you start the engine before you check the OIL.In case you missed it, it isn't dealers that claim flushing is wrong on the Honda auto tranny, it is Honda engineers.

The method you describe is OK, but many shops do a real backflush. Since most people don't know the difference and the shop may lie to you about what theirs really does, it is safer to simply do it the right way.

Neither way gets 100% of the old fluid out. Think about it. As you pump out fluid via the line, you are adding fluid in, which MIXES with the stuff already in there, just like doing a 3x drain and fill. You don't drain the sump and torque convertor with the power pump method...

This isn't a every 15k mile thing although some people here do a 1x drain and fill every 15k miles, keeping newer fluid going in more often than not.

I simply do the 30k 3x drain and fill. With 150k miles on my 99 which still shifts crisply, at redline, whenever I want it to, I will say that the Honda engineer method seems perfectly acceptable.

[HankinVA]

Well I guess you simply don't get it and I am not the one that is willing to take the time to educate you on the issue's corrected by replacing worn out fluid and removing as much contamination as possible i.e.. ground metal, other contaminates and worn out oil with little or no viscosity in the old worn out oil. All by the way whether you wish to accept it or not will contribute to the degradation of the mechanical device i.e.. transmission. common sense 101!

Oh well here I go in the simplest way I will try to have you understand.... lets take your engine for example the same could be said...I dare you to take the same advise you are giving for your transmission and apply it to your engine go ahead only change 2 quarts of your oil I dare you... Does not make much sense Right.

In response to your technical statement yes the entire system gets flushed... The pump its self draws the new handa fluid in and extricates the worn old contaminated fluid out so yes so the entire system is flushed (NOT Back Flush).

Just because it has always been done that way does not make it right! As in the old way of maintaining transmissions. Thank God we have new technology the helps extend the life of the $$$trans with the proper application.

I personally do not accept the BS that Honda is dealing in this regard.. And as previuosly stated have proved them wrong!

The Japan business culture is all about money and keeping the factories in Japan and now the US running i.e. Cars,parts Trans etc. They do not care about the Round eye culture they plan to milk the market all for that it is worth. Why do you think they went to the timing belt instead of the dependable non revenue making design of the timing chain $$$...they can make all of the justifications they want but until recently or until it affected their new car sales market did they go back to timing chains and even then they kept it in the most economical vehicles to milk the service revenue.
Engineering ....in english Yaaaaaahhh Right!!! .....
Do we know how to say SERVICE REVENUE San ... Bottom Line San... Hmmmmm!!!

This is the last post I will make on this issue... So read it... learn it... Love it... Save your money in transmission replacements down the road!

[2RedV's]

So in doing it your way, you don't bother to drain the pan, where the Honda engineers have already installed a magnetic drain plug? The same plug that those of us that do it the right way always clean off magnetic particles from?

;)

Either method involves the mixing of new fluid with new to some extent. When you are sucking that new fluid into the tranny, while the tranny pump is pulling out the old fluid via the other line, where do you think the new fluid is going? Is there some sort of magic holding area for new fluid in an auto trans so it doesn't mix with old fluid?