Towing a camper.

[RoadBloK]

I just bought a used Sunline 15 foot travel trailer (Dry weight 1830lbs). I plan on towing it with my '04 cr-v. I am gonna install the 2" hitch & will have towing stabilizer's on the camper. My question is : Has anyone ever had electric brake controllers installed on their "V" ?

[PowerSmith]

I have towed a trailer with electric brakes. I installed a Prodigy brake controller. It is really great. It is so good that I do not even notice the trailer when braking. :)

[RinconVTR]

Dry weight of around 1800? Get that baby weighed pronto before you go on a trip. Adding fuel, food, water...heck ANYTHING, will put you over 2,000lbs.

Your approaching a weight obviously over the tow rating, but worse yet, if your pulling with other in the car, WITH MORE GEAR in the back of the CR-V, oooh man...thats going to be close!

Knowing exact weights is critcal here, cause your knowingly over the tow rating, making Gross weight and Axle weights VERY critical.

Here are the MAX numbers:

1500 = Tow rating (same for Pre-2007 models)

2310 & 2290 = Front & Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (2007+)
2160 & 2250 = Front & Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (Pre-2007)

4560 = Gross Vehicle weight rating (2007+)

6060 = Gross COMBINED weight (2007+) (this includes the weight of the car AND trailer as towed)

[2RedV's]

The European CR-V (same vehicle as in North America) has 3500 pound weight limits on towing, provided it is equipped with trailer brakes. They also use a better hitch than the wimpy thing that Honda sells in North America - it is more like the Curt hitch.

[RinconVTR]

The European CR-V (same vehicle as in North America) has 3500 pound weight limits on towing, provided it is equipped with trailer brakes. They also use a better hitch than the wimpy thing that Honda sells in North America - it is more like the Curt hitch.

That makes absolutly NO difference. Toss out the tow rating completely then, and stick with Gross vehical weight ratings.

No one here knows why the European model has a higher rating, but did you ever consider the CR-V may be built slightly different under the skin? May be fewer air bags or less steel used to increase saftey ratings in the US? Consider their roads are different in any given region too. Who know! I dont know, and you dont either. Only Honda would know the answer. Dont assume!!!

Use the numbers the manufacture provides. If in doubt of your (or my) calculations and numbers provided, talk to any dealer who sells trailers.

We can also discuss your liabilty in this situation, towing 3,000 (or 2000+) lbs with a 1500 lb rated vehical...but thats a whole other thread. But keep it in mind, and keep EVERYONE safe.

But one last point...TRY towing 2000 lbs with your CR-V on an interstate or state highwa YOURSELF before telling us how safe it is. Then come back and tell us how it felt, and how hard the V was working to keep up, and if you recomend others disregard the U.S. ratings.

[2RedV's]

I cannot wait for one or more of our European members to post a picture of their V with a camper behind it - and the weight of it. I didn't say it was legal in the US, I just said the vehicle can do it.

[bullseye]

If someone is involved in an accident while towing and they’re overweight, even if they’re "not" @ fault, they better have a good err... I mean Great lawyer. (Insurance companies aren’t stupid)

Camper manufacturers are often optimistic in their dry weights. As RinconVTR said, get it weighted. You might be unpleasantly surprised. But it already appears that it is illegal to tow it with the CR-V since it weights more than 1500 lbs.

Vehicle brakes are a primary variable in a manufacturers tow ratings. I thought I read somewhere the European CR-V’s get 18” wheels. It is highly possible that European CR-V brakes are “beefier”, less subject to fade, ventilated (to run cooler), and/or etc. Anyone seen any braking distance data?

IF you are going to tow, you can never have too much truck,:D but you can have too little.:eek:

[2RedV's]

The 2002-2006 CR-V's are higher rated for towing in Europe than North America. It has nothing to do with the wheels as some of these years had the same size wheels and tires. It has to do with lawyer-happy USA.

[RinconVTR]

The 2002-2006 CR-V's are higher rated for towing in Europe than North America. It has nothing to do with the wheels as some of these years had the same size wheels and tires. It has to do with lawyer-happy USA.

The European model has no bearing on this debate...in fact, it really shouldn't be a debate. The facts are in writting in each owners manual.

Until Honda tells us the difference in ratings and why they are different across the pond, its a pointless fact.

I do know one thing though about legality, and it acutally does not help my side of this topic. "Rateings" are not law. For example, an officer can not ticket you for pulling 2,000lbs for a car/truck rated for 1500lbs for example. He can ticket you for an unsafe condition though. That could be the rig simply looks unsafe in their oppinion or as simple as not tieing town items in the trailer.

On the flip side, insurance companies WILL take the matter to court when they need to. Its VERY easy to find you liable for an accident (and even deny coverage) when you didnt follow the manufactures weight ratings and limits.

Remember I mentioned pulling 2 ATV's on an aluminum trailer weighing 1800lbs, via scale? Yes I am 300lbs over the 1500lb tow rating, the difference is that I'm still safely under all other gross vehical weights and axle ratings for the CR-V. Were I to have a problem, I have the 3 certified weigh slips to prove my case.

If you use a certified scale, and can keep within all the gross ratings I posted above...you'll be fine.

[bullseye]

For example, an officer can not ticket you for pulling 2,000lbs for a car/truck rated for 1500lbs for example.

While I haven't seen it lately, I have seen the State DOT (Dept of Transportation) pull over SUVs w/trailers and weigh them on the portable scales. Hate to wonder how much those tickets cost!:eek:

[sleeksilver]

That makes absolutly NO difference. Toss out the tow rating completely then, and stick with Gross vehical weight ratings.

No one here knows why the European model has a higher rating, but did you ever consider the CR-V may be built slightly different under the skin? May be fewer air bags or less steel used to increase saftey ratings in the US? Consider their roads are different in any given region too. Who know! I dont know, and you dont either. Only Honda would know the answer. Dont assume!!!

Use the numbers the manufacture provides. If in doubt of your (or my) calculations and numbers provided, talk to any dealer who sells trailers.

We can also discuss your liabilty in this situation, towing 3,000 (or 2000+) lbs with a 1500 lb rated vehical...but thats a whole other thread. But keep it in mind, and keep EVERYONE safe.

But one last point...TRY towing 2000 lbs with your CR-V on an interstate or state highwa YOURSELF before telling us how safe it is. Then come back and tell us how it felt, and how hard the V was working to keep up, and if you recomend others disregard the U.S. ratings.


This has been beaten to death over on www.hondasuv.com.

There is NO difference in the US and European version other than engine. The europeans will tow much more than 2000 pounds with a smaller engine. Don't assume anything yourself.

JM2C.

[RinconVTR]

This has been beaten to death over on www.hondasuv.com.

There is NO difference in the US and European version other than engine. The europeans will tow much more than 2000 pounds with a smaller engine. Don't assume anything yourself.

JM2C.

No one has confirmed this...I've read that forum for years also. There's nothing in writting from Honda stateing why there is a difference in weight ratings.

Were they truely identical, why are the axle and gross vehical weights 100% on par with the tow rating?

Come on...lets get serious here. We have no real answer other than to read your owners manual and believe the ratings we are given.

This sort of talk (that a CR-V can safely tow 3500 lbs on US highways) in any trailer shop or RV showroom will get you laughed at and ignored! Many reputable dealers will go as far as refusing to sell to you. Try it some time if you think I'm full of B.S and make assumptions.

I'm not here to prove anything. I'm trying to help out by giving accurate advice which can be backed up in writting.

Thanks.

[2RedV's]

Of course Honda doesn't mention anything in writing. They don't have to. They can use whatever ratings they want, in any country they want without having to explain themselves. They take the lawsuit risk - which is much higher in the US than in Europe. So, yes, your North American V can tow that much, but it isn't legal to do so.

[RinconVTR]

Of course Honda doesn't mention anything in writing. They don't have to. They can use whatever ratings they want, in any country they want without having to explain themselves. They take the lawsuit risk - which is much higher in the US than in Europe. So, yes, your North American V can tow that much, but it isn't legal to do so.

Wow...I cant believe the circles made here, this is becoming child-ish...and here I am continueing to play. I dont know who's the bigger fool.

Simple fact is, we need to stick to the facts...and keep people safe.

Ratings are not law.

Ratings are made by engineers and marketing departments.

Follow and abide by the manufactures recomendations and stay within their ratings, and your in good shape.

Until its found in writting by Honda, the reasons for the difference in ratings from one country to another is nothing but assumptions and possibly 100% internet myth stating its all about sue happy people in the U.S. Its nice to point out and all...but seriously has no "weight" in the U.S. Ha ha.

[Tim Vance]

This debate has been argued on almost every Honda SUV site I've been on, and it always goes the same way...

yes you can, because Honda says it's ok in another Country
No you can't because Honda US says you can't...

check here...
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7829

I've owned an Element since they first came out in 03, and pull a 2000lb pop up tent trailer with it, with a prodigy electric brake controller, and have no problems at all. This isn't bs, this is a fact....

One of the forums, and data I checked before we bought our trailer, was everything I could find about the CRV, because it's the closest to the Element, and has been around alot longer then the E...
I also know a thing or two about towing, having 25 years experience in the trucking and transportation industry...I now am a commercial driver manager, certified driver trainer, driver examiner, and Defensive Driver Instructor. I've pulled over 80,000lbs, with a 20,000lbs tractor, and have over a million miles to my credit...

It is not 'illegal' to exceed manufacturers recommended tow weights, and there isn't a DOT or Police force in North America that can ticket you for it. (you CAN get a ticket for exceeding the vehicle/towed vehicle gross weight class of your license) Yes, if you cause an accident, you can get a ticket, but not for towing a trailer that is heavier than manufacturers specs and again, that is a subject for another thread...)

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying run out and buy a 2000lb trailer, hook 'er up, and be on your merry way. Manufacturers specs are there for a reason. It's what the engineers have tested the vehicle for, and it's what the 'engineers' have determined/tested to be safe. Yes there is a difference in specs from Canada/US/Australia/Europe, and no, there is no difference in the vehicle (at all! It's the same vehicle across the board, made in 1 factory, and shipped around the world - I've taken a tour of 2 different Honda plants, and have asked), but no one at Honda can explain why. Is it because the testing is regulated by each individual government? I suspect so...( I can go on for hours about testing versus engineered specs, and over-engineering)

In any case, I can ascertain, and you can check with any mechanical engineer you like, 160 horses is quite capable of pulling 6000lbs. So the engine can handle it...
Can the transmission, suspension and drivetrain? If the engine is spec'ed for 160 horses, and 160 ft/lbs of torque, then yes, the drivetrain can handle it...( and yes, it does increase wear and tear and requires more diligent fluid changes, maintenance etc)
But can the driver? In alot of cases no!
If you have no experience whatsoever with towing any trailer, then DON"T DO IT! If you think you can just hook up the trailer, and set out on the interstate, then I can tell you from experience (I'm also an accident investigator) that even experienced drivers can have accidents; and the heavier the load, the worse the accident! ( and they are not usually the fault of the driver - you have to be extra aware of the other morons on the road)

But it bothers me when someone says 'it's says you can't in the manual, so you can't do it'. Simply because they don't recommend it (and that's all the manual is, is a recommendation), doesn't mean it's an unequivocal NO. There are alot of factors to take into consideration (see above for a few of them).

What I can tell you, again from experience, is that a 3500lb Honda SUV can pull a 2000lb trailer, with an electric brake controller, and an extra tranny cooler, with no problems. Yes, you have to be careful, and yes you know you are pulling a trailer, and yes you really should get practice before you go out and hit the road, but don't say 'No you can't', until you have proven to me it can't be done.

just my 2 cents...

[2RedV's]

This debate has been argued on almost every Honda SUV site I've been on, and it always goes the same way...

yes you can, because Honda says it's ok in another Country
No you can't because Honda US says you can't...

check here...
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7829

I've owned an Element since they first came out in 03, and pull a 2000lb pop up tent trailer with it, with a prodigy electric brake controller, and have no problems at all. This isn't bs, this is a fact....

One of the forums, and data I checked before we bought our trailer, was everything I could find about the CRV, because it's the closest to the Element, and has been around alot longer then the E...
I also know a thing or two about towing, having 25 years experience in the trucking and transportation industry...I now am a commercial driver manager, certified driver trainer, driver examiner, and Defensive Driver Instructor. I've pulled over 80,000lbs, with a 20,000lbs tractor, and have over a million miles to my credit...

It is not 'illegal' to exceed manufacturers recommended tow weights, and there isn't a DOT or Police force in North America that can ticket you for it. (you CAN get a ticket for exceeding the vehicle/towed vehicle gross weight class of your license) Yes, if you cause an accident, you can get a ticket, but not for towing a trailer that is heavier than manufacturers specs and again, that is a subject for another thread...)

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying run out and buy a 2000lb trailer, hook 'er up, and be on your merry way. Manufacturers specs are there for a reason. It's what the engineers have tested the vehicle for, and it's what the 'engineers' have determined/tested to be safe. Yes there is a difference in specs from Canada/US/Australia/Europe, and no, there is no difference in the vehicle (at all! It's the same vehicle across the board, made in 1 factory, and shipped around the world - I've taken a tour of 2 different Honda plants, and have asked), but no one at Honda can explain why. Is it because the testing is regulated by each individual government? I suspect so...( I can go on for hours about testing versus engineered specs, and over-engineering)

In any case, I can ascertain, and you can check with any mechanical engineer you like, 160 horses is quite capable of pulling 6000lbs. So the engine can handle it...
Can the transmission, suspension and drivetrain? If the engine is spec'ed for 160 horses, and 160 ft/lbs of torque, then yes, the drivetrain can handle it...( and yes, it does increase wear and tear and requires more diligent fluid changes, maintenance etc)
But can the driver? In alot of cases no!
If you have no experience whatsoever with towing any trailer, then DON"T DO IT! If you think you can just hook up the trailer, and set out on the interstate, then I can tell you from experience (I'm also an accident investigator) that even experienced drivers can have accidents; and the heavier the load, the worse the accident! ( and they are not usually the fault of the driver - you have to be extra aware of the other morons on the road)

But it bothers me when someone says 'it's says you can't in the manual, so you can't do it'. Simply because they don't recommend it (and that's all the manual is, is a recommendation), doesn't mean it's an unequivocal NO. There are alot of factors to take into consideration (see above for a few of them).

What I can tell you, again from experience, is that a 3500lb Honda SUV can pull a 2000lb trailer, with an electric brake controller, and an extra tranny cooler, with no problems. Yes, you have to be careful, and yes you know you are pulling a trailer, and yes you really should get practice before you go out and hit the road, but don't say 'No you can't', until you have proven to me it can't be done.

just my 2 cents...Welcome to the forum! :)

Excellent first post!

[RoadBloK]

Wow, my original post stirred up some stuff ! Here is my experience with towing my 1830 lb 15ft camper with my '04 cr-v so far : I installed my hitch, hooked up the camper & towed approx. 20 miles to test it out. Everything went lovely !! I will be installing an electric brake system just for safety but I feel very confident in towing without it. I am a truck driver with 2,500,000 safe driving miles under my belt. I want to let everyone know about the hitch I got for the "V". I got it from Hitchsource. They have an e-bay store @ eBay Store - HitchSource: Trailer Hitches, Hitches, Bike Racks (http://stores.ebay.com/HitchSource) This hitch is very nice & looks good on the "V". It tucks under more than most of the other hitches do & looks really good. I installed it myself in under 30 minutes. It took longer to install the wiring harness than it did for the hitch.

Now back to my original question. Does anyone have any reviews on electric brake controllers or has installed one on their "V" ?

Thanks, BloK

[2RedV's]

I would check the Element Owners Club forum for this - they tend to be a lot more "campy" than the CR-V members and the vehicles underpinnings are very near identical. (The Element does have an even lower final drive ratio)

[jenalan]

I am pulling a Fleetwood Cobalt (1,340 dry) with my 2008 CRV. I was nervous about buying it based upon all the discussion, but with a tranny cooler, electric brakes, and common sense, I am pulling it NO PROBLEM. I live in Colorado and have towed it over 12,000 ft. mountain passes at 60MPH +. I know it's there, but the CRV does fine.

[RinconVTR]

I am pulling a Fleetwood Cobalt (1,340 dry) with my 2008 CRV. I was nervous about buying it based upon all the discussion, but with a tranny cooler, electric brakes, and common sense, I am pulling it NO PROBLEM. I live in Colorado and have towed it over 12,000 ft. mountain passes at 60MPH +. I know it's there, but the CRV does fine.

Lets see some pics...your about 700 lbs less than my camper but you claim the mountains were no problems. I can tell you some hills on US41 here in WI were a problem for the CR-V. It could not maintain speed on a few hills, and I'd never take it out west.