US 3% Euro 50% ????????

[Sandpebble]

More on Diesel and why it will be big time in 2009 when Honda brings in 2.2 i-CDTi. At an estimated 36MPG US the Turbo diesel injection engine will be HOT!,HOT!,HOT! Mileage will go up 25% vs/gasoline with the smaller diesel giving more power. There are only slightly more than 3% diesels in US compaired with Europes plus 50%. See article on new US federal low polution diesel rules. Go to; www.terradaily.com/reports/New_US_fuel_standards_give_hope_to_diesel_industry .html :p

[2RedV's]

More on Diesel and why it will be big time in 2009 when Honda brings in 2.2 Tdi . At an estimated 36MPG US the Turbo diesel injection engine will be HOT!,HOT!,HOT! Mileage will go up 25% vs/gasoline with the smaller diesel giving more power. See article on new US federal low polution diesel rules. Go to; www.terradaily.com/reports/New_US_fuel_standards_give_hope_to_diesel_industry .html :p
Yes, it should make the hot selling V even hotter. It would have been FANTASTIC if it was already here though. Honda missed it.

[frehau]

- Just not in the US.

[Hughesy]

Gas costs $ 7.70 / US Gallon here in the UK.
If gas was cheaper, we wouldn't bother with diesels either!

Diesels do seem quicker than their petrol equivalents these days though, e.g. Audi A8 4.2 petrol 0-60 in 6.1 sec, 4.2 diesel 0-60 in 5.9 sec. And the diesel does 30.1 UK mpg = 25 US mpg! Not bad for an oil burner.

[lizzurd]

Gas costs $ 7.70 / US Gallon here in the UK.
If gas was cheaper, we wouldn't bother with diesels either!

Diesels do seem quicker than their petrol equivalents these days though, e.g. Audi A8 4.2 petrol 0-60 in 6.1 sec, 4.2 diesel 0-60 in 5.9 sec. And the diesel does 30.1 UK mpg = 25 US mpg! Not bad for an oil burner.

How much more does the diesel version cost to buy over its gas/petrol equivalent?

[Hughesy]

How much more does the diesel version cost to buy over its gas/petrol equivalent?

The list prices for the CR-V EX in the UK are:
2.0 petrol manual £ 23,527 - 34.9 UK mpg
2.0 petrol auto £ 24,627 - 34.4 UK mpg
2.2 diesel manual £ 24,717 - 43.5 UK mpg

So £ 1,190 = $ 2,400 or 5% additional for diesel. However, the residual (used) value is also greater, since fuel consumption is a more significant cost for used buyers. So the real cost is not that different, because you get the money back when you sell it.

At current UK fuel prices, someone doing 14,000 miles /year would save £ 1,190 over three years going for the diesel.

[Davecr-v]

Gas costs $ 7.70 / US Gallon here in the UK.
If gas was cheaper, we wouldn't bother with diesels either!

Diesels do seem quicker than their petrol equivalents these days though, e.g. Audi A8 4.2 petrol 0-60 in 6.1 sec, 4.2 diesel 0-60 in 5.9 sec. And the diesel does 30.1 UK mpg = 25 US mpg! Not bad for an oil burner.

Hey I was watching top Gear and Jeremy Clarkson got 40 MPG out of an A8 Diesel, stinks with the high fuel tax you guys pay over in the UK. THe main issue with diesel is the winter it is to difficult especially in the northern cities of North America to expect people to deal with the cold hassles of Diesel I mean I live in a city and I have to park blocks away from my house a garage is 300 bucks a month, How can I have a block heater? I heard the UK is expensive for everything though the average rent makes NYC look cheap.

[fatboyslim]

I heard the UK is expensive for everything though the average rent makes NYC look cheap.

Certainly is!!
We're taxed on nearly everything possible
About the only thing free is air

[Sandpebble]

The facts are in; 2.2 Tdi gets 43.5 Miles per UK Gallon, 36.25 Miles per US Gallon. The cost New for the Diesel is 5% more, in the UK. The savings in one year form increased mileage for an average 15,000 mile driver in Europe pays for the extra cost of the Diesel. In the US it will take longer to recover the exta cost as fuel is approximately 40% of what it is in Europe. Or 15,000 divided by .40 = 37500 miles,or about 30 Months. The Diesel will not depreciate as fast as the gasoline as it will be in demand to such a great extent that it may set new records for value retention.:p

[Hughesy]

Servicing is also more expensive on the diesel.
My 2.0 VTEC Accord cost about £180 for a service, the first two services on the diesel cost about £300.

Some of the difference is the use of fully synthetic oil.

[Sandpebble]

As of October 29, 2007 the Euro v US Dollar is E1.44 to $1.00 US Dollar. As the conversion rates change the quoted costs can be converted either way. The US Dollar is worth $.6935 or 69.35 Cents US to the Euro. Or any cost quoted in Euro's will cost almost one and a half times more for US dollars.The major reason is the increase in US Debt which causes the Dollar to drop in value. As the US debt decreases the Dollar will be worth more,which will change the exchange rates of currencies. The good news is that in the manufacture of the new CRV's the cost will not be reflective of the Euro v US Dollar. This due to the Mexican factory producing CRV's at a lower cost. The parts will be imported but the assemby costs will be reflective of the lower salaries paid. In addition the delivery cost of the finished product will be much less than the Euro and Japan shipping costs. Hopefully there will be less of an impact on the stress put on the suspension which has taken the proper alignment out of some 2007 & 2008 Units. The maintenance cost in US for Diesel units hopefully will not be as high as in Europe as in the US more competition drives down cost. The estimated diesel costs of $3.00 per gallon US , at 36.25 MPG yields a per mile cost of $.083 US or 8.3 Cents per mile. That compaires with the Gasoline 2.0 engines cost of (28 MPG) of $.107 US or 10.7 cents per mile. The life of a CRV at 100,000 miles Diesel v Gasoline yields 10.7-8.3=2.4 Cents per mile or $2400 US Dollars savings. The estimated cost new for the New Diesel 2009 2.2Tdi fully loaded 4 WD is $29,900 US v a gasoline same set up of $28,405 for a difference of $1,495 US. In 100,000 miles the gas savings of $2400 less the cost difference of $1495=$905 US. This can be used to offset the maintence cost which are higher for Deisel v Gasoline.The better torque and longer engine life will give the Diesel the advantage. The new US standards for the Diesel fuel makes it the same as gasoline emissions. Pumps will have the new Diesel and old Diesel. The 2.2 Tdi can only use the new Diesel fuel. The US is going New Diesel as soon as the manufacturing is cranked up in 2008 for 2009 Vehicles.The CAFE (corporate average fuel efficiency)mandated for 2020 in US is 35. That is for all vehicles averaged. Honda will be highest MPG manufacturer again with the new Tdi's.

[2RedV's]

Huh? Why would you say maintenance costs are higher for a diesel over a gas engine? It is actually the other way around and has been for decades.

[Sandpebble]

The typical costs for oil changes including filter for gas 2.0 is $27.95 at a Honda Dealer. The cost estimate for an oil change for the new 2.2 Tdi is $108.00 That means the increased cost $108.00 less the $27.95=$80.05 times the frequency factor (of gasoline 3000 mile Diesel 1850 miles or 3000 divided by 1850)= 1.62 times the additional cost of $80.05= $129.68 per oil change more for oil changes Gasoline v Diesel.That means in 100,000 miles a Diesel will cost $5837.40 for oil changes v a Gasoline engine costs of $931.67.For the average driver of 15000 miles per year diesel oil changes are required 8.1 times at a cost of $108.00 per change = $874.80 v a gasoline engine oil change cost for 5 changes at $27.95 per change = $139.60.The additional cost per year the is $735.20 more for Diesel than Gasoline. Additional costs for flushing the oiling sysyem after draining may be indicated at every third oil change. Fuel filters must be changed at every tenth oil change or 18,625 miles to insure cloging does not occur. Injectors will also need attention if they become dirty. These fees will add possibly another $350 per year for a total of $1085.20. The additional cost for gasoline engines are for tune ups that typically are done at 75,000 miles. On average the cost for maintenance will be higher for the Diesel unless Honda has a centrifuge filter system to filter as you go. Anyone with better data please fell free to correct me.:rolleyes:

[Hughesy]

Huh? Why would you say maintenance costs are higher for a diesel over a gas engine? It is actually the other way around and has been for decades.

The diesel engine has a turbo, and needs fully synthetic oil. OK, it doesn't need spark plugs, but these last 60k miles on modern petrol engines anyway.

I owned the same car (2004 Euro Accord) with both 2.0 petrol VTEC and 2.2 diesel, serviced at the same Honda dealer and the diesel was a fair amount more expensive. I have just had the three year service on the diesel Accord and it was about £280, including £90 for 6 litres of oil (you can probably buy this for £60 in a shop though).

[Hughesy]

The typical costs for oil changes including filter for gas 2.0 is $27.95 at a Honda Dealer.

That is almost unbelievable, here you couldn't even buy half the oil for that much, let alone pay a Honda dealer to change it for you. The labour alone would be four times that amount!
Maybe in a back street garage, using low quality oil (which shouldn't go in a lovely Honda VTEC engine) you could get an oil change for double that here.
Anyway, we are talking about servicing cost, which is a lot more than just changing the oil.

[2RedV's]

Where in the world do you get info that oil changes are every 1850 miles? That's insane. My old Mercedes diesels had 5,000 mile oil change intervals and that was back in the 1980's. My Dodge diesel truck has 7500 mile changes and that is the severe, towing schedule! Also, the fuel filter does not have to be changed that often. Are you looking at inflated dealer " service suggestions" rather than Honda's service schedules?

[Sandpebble]

Right here in the USA. This new Diesel is not a Dodge Oil burner,or a Mercedes low reving engine. It requires much more servicing than the old soot puffing high liter engines of yesteryear. Diesel mechanics, get paid more than gasoline mechanics,which will be reflected in service fees. The final design of the US CRV Diesels will determine the service requirements and costs. The estimates are converted from typical service requirements of the European Diesels,the same size as the 2.2 Tdi, as reported by owners. Let's compaire apples to apples and not peas to apples. I try to calculate at reasonable estimates, that's why I stated "Anyone with better information please feel free to correct me."

[2RedV's]

In Europe, the diesel CR-V comes with the same three-year or 100 000km warranty and five-year or 90,000km service plan as the gasoline models; service intervals are 10,000km.

[Davecr-v]

Do you know how many American's will put in the wrong fuel Americans aren't the most car savvy peoply generally, I am proof.

[fatboyslim]

That is almost unbelievable, here you couldn't even buy half the oil for that much, let alone pay a Honda dealer to change it for you. The labour alone would be four times that amount!
Maybe in a back street garage, using low quality oil (which shouldn't go in a lovely Honda VTEC engine) you could get an oil change for double that here.
Anyway, we are talking about servicing cost, which is a lot more than just changing the oil.

National Autocare do oil changes for £25, that's using Castrol Magnatec 10/40 semi-synth!!

[Hughesy]

That means the increased cost $108.00 less the $27.95=$80.05 times the frequency factor (of gasoline 3000 mile Diesel 1850 miles or 3000 divided by 1850)= 1.62 times the additional cost of $80.05= $129.68 per oil change more for oil changes Gasoline v Diesel.

Who changes their oil that often?
In the UK (for Honda) you change the oil every year, or 12,000 miles which ever comes first.
Some cars with variable service intervals (like BMW) can go 20,000 miles before a service.

1850 miles is only three tanks of fuel in a diesel!!

[Sandpebble]

What type of engine,oil and filter and cost are you refering to? The people I talk to have 2.2Tdi's and change with synthetic (12 Liters) and filter every 3000 KM.:confused:

[Sandpebble]

See the thread for "Two Years" for more about the new diesel.

[WanderingBrit]

Right here in the USA. This new Diesel is not a Dodge Oil burner,or a Mercedes low reving engine. It requires much more servicing than the old soot puffing high liter engines of yesteryear. Diesel mechanics, get paid more than gasoline mechanics,which will be reflected in service fees. The final design of the US CRV Diesels will determine the service requirements and costs. The estimates are converted from typical service requirements of the European Diesels,the same size as the 2.2 Tdi, as reported by owners. Let's compaire apples to apples and not peas to apples. I try to calculate at reasonable estimates, that's why I stated "Anyone with better information please feel free to correct me."

VW/Audi produce modern diesels at least as sophisticated as Honda (I assume) and the oil change schedule for a VW TDi is 10,000 miles, using fully synthetic oil. Over in TDi land there are folks who perform oil analysis and extend the interval further than that, but I changed mine every 10,000 miles like the book said. Fuel filter was at 20,000 miles along with the cabin air filter.

Compared with the 1986 Mercedes 300SD I owned the Jetta TDi required much, much less servicing. The modern engines are much cleaner burning and create less soot burden for the oil to carry, the primary reason for frequent oil changes in older diesel engines.

I long for the day we here in the US are given more choices for diesel cars, as I far prefer them to gas power. People buy horsepower but drive torque, and torque is where diesels rule the road.

Kevin
2008 EX 4WD

[2RedV's]

WanderingBrit - I have owned a few of those mid-1980's Mercedes turbo diesels over the years. Change oil every 5k miles and enjoy 25-30mpg in a car built like a tank. They had a quite high, for a diesel, redline on the engine at 5,000 rpm's.