AWD Differential oil change

[bozo]

Hi All,

Thought I would share this.
I have a 2004 CRV with 51 K miles on it. I recently went to the dealer at 48K with a crunching / vibration, coming from the front, at low speed (10-15 mph) when I turned the Steering wheel to the right or left. I was told that the oil should have been changed in the differential at 20 k miles. This was news to me since the manual says 80K miles. I was then told they needed to do a burnishing process (a $250.00 adventure). That fixed it but i was concerned that I might have done some perminant damage so I called Honda to find out why this is not advertized. I suggested a maintenance schedule be posted at the service Dept. stating what has to be done and at what interval. The contact was very nice and thought it was a good idea. I got the impression that it was just bad business for Honda to admit that the oil change needed to be done so often. It seems to me tha is a small price to pay for the AWD performance your are getting.

Bozo

[07CRVOWNR]

I have been confused about this when I started looking into the service schedule this week. My 07 CRV EX-L AWD just started to experience the same crunching/vibration at low speed turns. I scheduled an appointment for this Wednesday to have the rear differential fluid changed since reading other posts in crvoc that indicate that this is a symptom of a need of this type of fluid change. My CRV now has over 14,100 miles on it. It's a little early but with the every 20,000 miles change interval it makes sense. With the maintenance minder system in my CRV, it seems to be more reactive. Meaning, I couldn't find any maintenance schedule saying this should be generally done at this miles in the owner's manual or documentation that came with my CRV but have to rely on the message that is displayed instead. As a result, I went to www.edmunds.com and found a general Maintenance Guide which is part of their car maintenance section. Edmunds' shows the rear differential fluid should be changed at 60,000 miles. I will stick with the 20,000 mile change suggestion or when symptoms occurs whichever happens first.

[2RedV's]

Hi All,

Thought I would share this.
I have a 2004 CRV with 51 K miles on it. I recently went to the dealer at 48K with a crunching / vibration, coming from the front, at low speed (10-15 mph) when I turned the Steering wheel to the right or left. I was told that the oil should have been changed in the differential at 20 k miles. This was news to me since the manual says 80K miles. I was then told they needed to do a burnishing process (a $250.00 adventure). That fixed it but i was concerned that I might have done some perminant damage so I called Honda to find out why this is not advertized. I suggested a maintenance schedule be posted at the service Dept. stating what has to be done and at what interval. The contact was very nice and thought it was a good idea. I got the impression that it was just bad business for Honda to admit that the oil change needed to be done so often. It seems to me tha is a small price to pay for the AWD performance your are getting.

BozoCall back Honda Corp and ask why you cannot be reimbursed. $250 is excessive. Do you know what is involved with burnishing the clutch pack? About 30 minutes of time!

In any event, if you carefully read the owner's manual, it states that you will need to change the fluid more often if you drive thru deep water, etc.
90k miles is unrealistic for any year of CR-V, let alone, ANY 4x4 of any type for differential fluid changes.

From now on, have it changed every 20-30k miles, BEFORE you hear any noises. The noise means that the clutch pack is receiving unneeded wear. Since the replacement clutch pack is around $1200, it is much cheaper to do an occasional rear diff fluid change. It is quite easy for a DIY project.

[bozo]

Dear 2redV's,

Thanks for the insight. I did call Honda and got the feel free to cry on my shoulder treatment but no satisfaction. He was veryy nice and offerd me a free oil change.

I wa told the process was 3 changes of a special burnishing oil. That was all I was told. The peple you talk to are not very technical which annoys me to no end. Love the car though.

Thanks again

Bozo

[HandA]

just curious, by calling Honda do you mean your local dealer or Honda's corporate number?

[sag]

I have a 2007 CRV with 20,000 miles on it. I just had my oil in the differential changed at my local Honda dealership. This was going to cost me about $100!!! But to my surprise the dealer said that it was covered under warranty. They said they had received a notice from Honda Corporate that this was a known issue and thus covered by the warranty.

Hope this helps,

Sags

[2RedV's]

just curious, by calling Honda do you mean your local dealer or Honda's corporate number?Honda Corporate.

[HandA]

:) I was actually curious if he was calling his dealer or corporate Honda when he referred to it. I knew you were meaning corporate, but a lot of people think their dealer and Honda are one in the same while all the dealerships are independently owned. :)

[07CRVOWNR]

Bozo, sounds like your Dealer's service department isn't too helpful. As indicated in my first post to this thread I experienced the same moan and groan noise as well at 14,100 miles on my CRV. The dealership replaced the fluid and burnished the differential clutch pack, which solved the issue. Now it drives like it did the day I drove it off of the car lot. I didn't have to pay anything for this service. However, the assistant manager for the parts department at my dealership lives across the parking lot in my townhouse development, so I don't know if he pulled any strings or not (my guess is that it was covered by warranty). This issue is common. To my understanding, the my dealership has had a hard time keeping the Dual Pump II fluid in stock since this service is being performed quite frequently.

[EngiNerd]

Our experience was similar - took the car (2003 EX) in due to the rear axle noise & a leaking axle seal a couple years ago w/ ~40k mi & was promptly told I neglected to perform the necessary axle service at 30k.. I informed them that, according to the manual, the fluid change wasn't called for until 90k mi - called Honda too but that didn't help either.

To add insult, the dealer changed the axle seal under warranty but reused the fluid (!). Noise was still there when the car was returned & again, I was offered the opportunity to perform a $75 service to correct a problem inherent to this vehicle.

Prepare to get the proverbial finger w/ these sorts of issues.

[2RedV's]

Our experience was similar - took the car (2003 EX) in due to the rear axle noise & a leaking axle seal a couple years ago w/ ~40k mi & was promptly told I neglected to perform the necessary axle service at 30k.. I informed them that, according to the manual, the fluid change wasn't called for until 90k mi - called Honda too but that didn't help either.

To add insult, the dealer changed the axle seal under warranty but reused the fluid (!). Noise was still there when the car was returned & again, I was offered the opportunity to perform a $75 service to correct a problem inherent to this vehicle.

Prepare to get the proverbial finger w/ these sorts of issues.Call Honda Corporate and inform them of the dealer's re-using of the old fluid.

It isn't actually a "problem inherent to this vehicle". It is a problem that Honda Marketing LIED in the owner's manual about the service needed.

EVERY 4x4 or All-wheel-drive vehicle made WILL need the differentials, transfer case, etc. (or whatever it uses) fluids changed on a regular basis.

To assume that because one bought a Honda that fluids don't need changed is a sign of a negligent owner - You know, those people that own a car for 5 years and tell people how great the car is because "all they ever did was change the oil" types. NEVER buy a used car from someone like that. The car will invariably fail you, soon.

[EngiNerd]

It isn't actually a "problem inherent to this vehicle". It is a problem that Honda Marketing LIED in the owner's manual about the service needed.

Do you have any documentation from Honda R&D to support this or is it 'common internet knowledge'? :)


EVERY 4x4 or All-wheel-drive vehicle made WILL need the differentials, transfer case, etc. (or whatever it uses) fluids changed on a regular basis.

To assume that because one bought a Honda that fluids don't need changed is a sign of a negligent owner - You know, those people that own a car for 5 years and tell people how great the car is because "all they ever did was change the oil" types. NEVER buy a used car from someone like that. The car will invariably fail you, soon.

I wouldn't have been offended if I received notification from Honda, stating that it was a typo or w/ a recommendation to change the fluid more frequently..

I also probably wouldn't have cared if I bought the car used without warranty. What really stings is the dealer's attitude (implying that I was neglecting the vehicle) & that a phone call to corp. didn't get anywhere.

Don't ask me what I think about the brakes...

[2RedV's]

Do you have any documentation from Honda R&D to support this or is it 'common internet knowledge'? :)



I wouldn't have been offended if I received notification from Honda, stating that it was a typo or w/ a recommendation to change the fluid more frequently..

I also probably wouldn't have cared if I bought the car used without warranty. What really stings is the dealer's attitude (implying that I was neglecting the vehicle) & that a phone call to corp. didn't get anywhere.

Don't ask me what I think about the brakes...internet knowledge...and partly based upon experience with a few of them.

I have zero issues with brakes? Have now put 60k on the 99's only replacement front ones and the rears are original with nearly 40% of the shoes left! The 04's are also still original all around. Is it driving style or type of driving (city) that is the issue?

[DealershipsSUCK]

I just got done having my 2006 CRV serviced for the rear differential fluid, and it cost $100.00 for my dealer to do it. I spoke to the service dept and general manager all of whom were complete jerks about the situation. They did not care if it said it shouldn't be changed until 90,000, and since "fluids" isn't covered by the warranty they would not cover the cost.

To make a long story short I am never buying a car or having my current one serviced from/by (Bob Howard Honda - OKC, OK) If you live in the OKC metro area you are better off avoiding a dealership who is very accommodating when you are purchasing your $26K vehicle, but will burn you when you have a valid point AND it may cost THEM money or time to resolve it!! They are jerks and don't let there so called "service awards" fool you.

Anyhow, I suggest everyone that owns a 2006 CRV and has had this problem w/in 0-30,000miles do the following in the chronological order.

1. Call 1-800-999-1009 - This is the Honda Motor Company customer service, explain the problem and why it should be covered under warranty.

2. Check with your mechanic and see how much it will cost you. (Keep in mind it takes about 2 quarts of fluid to make the flush and change at $10.00 each)

3. If Honda won't pay, mechanic is to high $$$, and you are capable of doing so change it yourself. There is a great thread that explains how to do it, or check this bulletin sent by Honda to dealers for the 97-01 CRVs (Since every Realtime 4WD is having this problem I am sure that they have not reconfigured the basics of how to change the fluid)

www.crvownersclub.com-TSBs-2001-01-079


4. REMEMBER!!!

Dealerships are in business BECAUSE of YOU, NOT FOR YOU!!!




Hi All,

Thought I would share this.
I have a 2004 CRV with 51 K miles on it. I recently went to the dealer at 48K with a crunching / vibration, coming from the front, at low speed (10-15 mph) when I turned the Steering wheel to the right or left. I was told that the oil should have been changed in the differential at 20 k miles. This was news to me since the manual says 80K miles. I was then told they needed to do a burnishing process (a $250.00 adventure). That fixed it but i was concerned that I might have done some perminant damage so I called Honda to find out why this is not advertized. I suggested a maintenance schedule be posted at the service Dept. stating what has to be done and at what interval. The contact was very nice and thought it was a good idea. I got the impression that it was just bad business for Honda to admit that the oil change needed to be done so often. It seems to me tha is a small price to pay for the AWD performance your are getting.

Bozo

[billyk70]

Just took my 07 CRV, 21,000 miles, in for vibration/groan from front end. Initial answer from tech is that it was probably rear differential and that oil should be changed every 15, 000 miles. I debated this with him & left it at Dealers today. I have Service Bulletin 07-024 that I think covers this problem. Any one else know more? Thanks

[Black Pearl]

Unfortunately, your service tech is correct. If you have an 2007, your maintenance minder should have given you a 6 subcode for changing the rear differential fluid around 15,000 to 20,000 miles.

Frequently people change their oil more frequently than the MMI suggests, and they reset the MMI and never see the subcodes.

http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4823

For the 2007 and newer models the fluid changes are far more frequent than the older models that had 90K normal and 60K severe. Not that the older models were any better, it just took Honda 10 years to figure out that the rear differential oil will not last 60K.

What is a bit confusing in your case is that everyone else reports groaning and vibration from the rear end of the vehicle especially in tight turns.

Welcome to the club, sorry I couldn't give you better news. Good luck with your problem.