2005 CRV grumbles when turning sharp left or right

[earthbound]

This problem recently started and is getting worse. Slow speed sharp turns, as in parking lots, cause rumbling/grumbling sounds and jerky motion. The original power steering fluid is still full at the upper line. Could I be having cv-joint problems at only 17,000 miles? Any ideas on what to check for?

[miko]

Not an uncommon problem. Replace your rear end differential fluid. Honda Dual Pump Fluid. Should be done under warranty. Manual says it's OK for 90K miles. (I think.)

[earthbound]

Thanks miko! I was fearing the worst and hate to go to the dealer with no idea of the problem/solution beforehand.

[Gretchen]

I had this exact problem with my '05. The dealership even replaced the rear differential assembly under warrenty. The sound kept coming back. I went for a drive with a tech and he found the problem. The engine mount was rubbing. (There is a TSB for this) So far, so good.

[earthbound]

Thanks Gretchen and miko. I had Honda perform the rear differential service yesterday under warranty and all is well! The service manager told me that Honda will pay for the service if the car is brought in before 36k miles, so anyone else with this problem should have it done before then.

[jpkearney]

I've read on some other sites that there is a technical service bullletin out for the 05 CR-V about the rear diff. not getting enough lubrication and there is some "fix" for that, other than just continuing to incur the expense of changing the dual pump fluid every 10-15K miles. Does anyone know what this bulletin is or where I can view this? I feel like the dealer here in Kansas City is just giving me the run around on this. Any help would be appreciated!

[Merrywoman]

I have a 2002 CR-V, I have approximately 39,000 miles on it and have just starting hearing the noise or grumbling sound in the rear end when I make tight turns to the right or left. I have also had to have my rear brakes completely replaced (pads, rotors and calipers) at about 35,000 miles, the dealer would not help me and the car was out of warranty by time. I will now take the car to my mechanic (not the dealer) and have him replace the rear end fluids.

[Snoopy1971]

I have a 2002 CR-V, I have approximately 39,000 miles on it and have just starting hearing the noise or grumbling sound in the rear end when I make tight turns to the right or left. I have also had to have my rear brakes completely replaced (pads, rotors and calipers) at about 35,000 miles, the dealer would not help me and the car was out of warranty by time. I will now take the car to my mechanic (not the dealer) and have him replace the rear end fluids.

I don't have any experience with the rear differential issue, but why did you have to replace the rear rotors & calipers in addition to the pads? My '03 Accord had the rear pads wear down at about 38K miles, which is odd since the front had plenty of pad still left on it. Did you let the pads wear down (I would assume that the CR-V pads have the noisy scraper on it like most OEM pads nowadays) to the rotors, which then dug into the rotors? Can't really think of a reason that the calipers would need to be replaced so early... If you took it to a mechanic, I think he hosed you.

[2RedV's]

Some 04,05,06 owners have had a noisy rear diff develop from 10-20k miles. It should be replaced for free under warranty. My local dealer charges $39 for a single drain and fill. The TSB says it may require a double drain and fill to clear up the noise. After that initial time, have it done every 30k miles or so. $40 every couple of years can buy peace of mind over a $1200 rear diff assembly sometime later down the road.

It's no different than changing your oil. You accept that and do it in order to prolong the life of the vehicle. You bought an all wheel drive vehicle and it has an extra item to take care of periodically. All fluids need changing/renewing at some point.

[Merrywoman]

The car was in the shop at 8,000 miles and they told me they had to clean the slides on the rear calipers, I had noticed a rubbing noise when I had the windows down in a parking garage, at approx. 15,000 miles they told me they had to clean them again because they were hanging up and that I must live on a dirt road, which I do not. At around 21,000 miles they told me they needed to clean they again, they were hanging up and the next time Honda would not cover the cleaning. The last time they checked them the dealer told me they would need to replace the rotors, calipers and pads at my cost, Honda would not cover, the one brake pad was almost gone. That is when I took the car to my local mechanic and had the work done the Honda dealer was going to charge me more and I really did not want to give them the money.




I don't have any experience with the rear differential issue, but why did you have to replace the rear rotors & calipers in addition to the pads? My '03 Accord had the rear pads wear down at about 38K miles, which is odd since the front had plenty of pad still left on it. Did you let the pads wear down (I would assume that the CR-V pads have the noisy scraper on it like most OEM pads nowadays) to the rotors, which then dug into the rotors? Can't really think of a reason that the calipers would need to be replaced so early... If you took it to a mechanic, I think he hosed you.

[Merrywoman]

I followed the advice on this post and had the rear end oil replaced. It worked, I have no more grinding sound in the rear end while making the sharp right and left turns, Thanks alot.


I have a 2002 CR-V, I have approximately 39,000 miles on it and have just starting hearing the noise or grumbling sound in the rear end when I make tight turns to the right or left. I have also had to have my rear brakes completely replaced (pads, rotors and calipers) at about 35,000 miles, the dealer would not help me and the car was out of warranty by time. I will now take the car to my mechanic (not the dealer) and have him replace the rear end fluids.

[2RedV's]

I followed the advice on this post and had the rear end oil replaced. It worked, I have no more grinding sound in the rear end while making the sharp right and left turns, Thanks alot.

COOL! Just remember to have it done every 30k miles. This is also a very easy item to do onesself. There is no jacking up of the vehicle required. The toughest time is the first time. Honda seemed to have used retired Sumo wrestlers to tighten the drain and fill bolts at the factory.

newbie hints: Loosen the FILL bolt first. If you drain it and then have trouble opening the fill bolt, you are in trouble! Think about that...
Buy 3 quarts of fluid even though it takes 1.1 quarts (1.0 imperial) This way, you have enough to do 2 changes without revisiting the dealer. Plus, as a newbie rear diff fluid changer, you will probably spill a little bit.
ONLY USE HONDA DUAL-PUMP FLUID!

[spdrcr5]

This is a very common issue with the RT4WD system on the CR-V and the Element. We've been discussing this quite extensively the last year on the EOC (http://www.elementownersclub.com) site.

According to Honda the rear diff fluid is supposed to last 60,000 miles but people begin hearing the noise during low speed turning around 30,000 miles. I got lucky and my Element didn't begin making noise until just over 50,000 miles.

It is a pretty simple change of fluid if you have some basic hand tools.

Here is a very nice and simple How-to (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29533) that a member on the Element Owners Club put together. The work needed to be performed is exactly the same for the CR-V as the Element so use this when the time comes.

[2RedV's]

Not a bad write-up of the how-to. He mentions that the fluid "looks like" standard ATF. It is a hydraulic fluid and if you try to be cheap and not use the Honda Dual-Pump Fluid, you will probably end up needing a new clutch pack. Hydrailic fluid is like brake fluid in that it attracts/absorbs water. The V has a breather element for the rear diff and if you drive thru deep water, you should have the rear diff fluid replaced soon after.

[bodgerx]

I've just bought a 3-year old CR-V 2005 TDCi 2.2 (just out of warranty 6 weeks ago (fleet cast off)) with 22,000 miles on the clock and it has this problem. Coming from 3 years of faultless motoring with my Accord, I'm not impressed. It was only serviced on 20,000 (according to the service book) for goodness sake!

I've just taken it to my local Honda dealership here in North Yorkshire, UK and they acknowledged the long-standing issue. I whined and they suggested that they do the 3-times flush thing on the rear-diff for a 'special rate' of £82 rather than the typical £113. Not exactly grateful, I've booked it on for this Wednesday. Should I bother asking for a refund from Honda HQ, or am I wasting my time, and should just be praying that the rear diff is completely bust?

Otherwise, I'm liking the car. It's a bit of truck compared to my Accord which feels like a sports-car now, but it's nice in its own way.

This is a very common issue with the RT4WD system on the CR-V and the Element. We've been discussing this quite extensively the last year on the EOC (http://www.elementownersclub.com) site.

According to Honda the rear diff fluid is supposed to last 60,000 miles but people begin hearing the noise during low speed turning around 30,000 miles. I got lucky and my Element didn't begin making noise until just over 50,000 miles.

[Carbuff2]

I've just bought a 3-year old CR-V 2005 TDCi 2.2 (just out of warranty 6 weeks ago (fleet cast off)) with 22,000 miles on the clock and it has this problem. Coming from 3 years of faultless motoring with my Accord, I'm not impressed. It was only serviced on 20,000 (according to the service book) for goodness sake!

Should I bother asking for a refund from Honda HQ, or am I wasting my time, and should just be praying that the rear diff is completely bust?

Otherwise, I'm liking the car. It's a bit of truck compared to my Accord

Well, that's a maintenance issue really. Part of the "cost" of owning a 4WD IMO. Could have been absolutely quiet at 20K and been noisy 2K miles later!



I've replaced the diff fluid twice in 30K miles on mine and I expect to do it again soon, 'cause I have more than 17K miles on the present fluid.

As to the V feeling like a truck: I thought that too, but once you get the diff sorted, try accelerating out of curves. You will feel the rear "dig in" and bring you through. It was a pleasant surprise to me. The V can actually be driven in quite a sporting manner.

It DOES have slow steering, though. :p

[sleeksilver]

I've just bought a 3-year old CR-V 2005 TDCi 2.2 (just out of warranty 6 weeks ago (fleet cast off)) with 22,000 miles on the clock and it has this problem. Coming from 3 years of faultless motoring with my Accord, I'm not impressed. It was only serviced on 20,000 (according to the service book) for goodness sake!

I've just taken it to my local Honda dealership here in North Yorkshire, UK and they acknowledged the long-standing issue. I whined and they suggested that they do the 3-times flush thing on the rear-diff for a 'special rate' of £82 rather than the typical £113. Not exactly grateful, I've booked it on for this Wednesday. Should I bother asking for a refund from Honda HQ, or am I wasting my time, and should just be praying that the rear diff is completely bust?

Otherwise, I'm liking the car. It's a bit of truck compared to my Accord which feels like a sports-car now, but it's nice in its own way.

IT IS A MAINTENANCE ITEM!

Service your vehicle, problem solved.

[bodgerx]

IT IS A MAINTENANCE ITEM!

Service your vehicle, problem solved.

Fine, service the vehicle you say.

But, this car was only serviced 2,000 miles ago!!! It also has a full main dealer service history over its 22,000 mile life. Surely this should have been done at some point.

From what I've been told at the dealer, this is a contamination problem in the lubricant. The most off-roading the car has seen is a trip to the local supermarket car-parks. When has this occurred?

Seems like more of a design fault than a maintenance issue to me.

[Black Pearl]

Bodgerx, I agree with you. My friends here are saying it is a maintenance item, and they are absolutely correct...but they know it is a maintenance item because they belong to on-line forums and know what Honda hasn't told you.

What does your owner's manual say for rear differential fluid changes? The 2005 US manual says to change it a 90,000 normal 60,000 severe. Now the Generation 3 MMI are having us change it at 15,000 (there abouts). Is it a requirement of ownership to be a member of an online forum? You took your car for servicing and now you have this problem 2000 miles later. Honda knows they have a problem. There is a TSB in the US for this problem.

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A07-024.PDF

Unless Honda notified you with a registered letter that your owner's manual is wrong (I am assuming the UK manual reflects the US service intervals), I don't see how anyone can hold you responsible and Honda should pay for the service--the first time. Once you have been informed that it is a regular maintenance item, I don't think it is unreasonable to charge for the service. I do think it is patently unfair for Honda to publish one thing and "Oh, well we were wrong about that but you have to pay!"

Make up your mind Honda. If you want it changed at 15K send the owners a registered letter stating so. My opinion...insist that Honda pays for the first service and the burnishing.

Welcome to the club and good luck with your problem.

[bodgerx]

Thanks Black Pearl. My UK maintenance manual says 75,000 Miles or at 8 years for this! I picked it up today and the guy at the service desk was saying Honda UK are standing by the 75,000 miles and that if anyone brings it in with the usual symptoms then the usual diff flush procedure is done. He acknowledged it was a little strange and that they did have quite a few CR-V's in well before this mileage/age point.

I'm a little concerned about the fluid they used. On my invoice it says "H0829399901HA - Honda Dual Pump Fluid I" (£6.68+VAT). Isn't Dual Pump Fluid II the one to use now?

Thanks for your welcome - despite my complaints I am really happy with the CR-V, driving it back from the Garage, it felt even better - smoother and grippier with the diff flush. It's just after 4 years of faultless driving with my 2001 Accord my expectations were set very high.

[Carbuff2]

Supposedly its moisture that contributes to the early failure of the diff fluid. At one point Honda was blaming early failed fluid on ocean shipping. Then they installed diff breather tubes on early Gen1 Vs to keep more moisture out. Finally they came out with DPII fluid.

We'll see.

FWIW I have 17K miles on my latest batch (and it's DPI) and nary a grunt...

I consider it a cost of having four wheel drive. Our old RAV4 needed diff fluid changes periodically, and so did my daughter's two Jeeps.

[Black Pearl]

I'm a little concerned about the fluid they used. On my invoice it says "H0829399901HA - Honda Dual Pump Fluid I" (£6.68+VAT). Isn't Dual Pump Fluid II the one to use now?

Dual Pump Fluid II came out in the summer of 2007. I think it is supposed to be more less hydroscopic than the original fluid. But lets put it this way, some folks have had the TSB performed with the new fluid and still had troubles. If the problem has gone away, I don't think I would get concerned. Just plan to get it changed routinely every 15,000 to 30,000 miles. As Carbuff2 indicated, it is part of the cost of having 4WD, which I have no dispute with.

What raises my hackles is that on the generation 1 and 2 Honda has published in their owner's manaul these long change intervals. Then the damn rear differential raises hell and somehow its the owner fault for not properly maintaining the vehicle. We had some members that were lectured by the dealers about this. Whoa BS Jack! That ain't the way things work. The manufacturer should notify the owners when the damn manual is wrong. And if they don't, they are responsible for the problem not the owner. It appears to me that Honda is just riding this problem out on a case by case basis, and if the owner will pay for it, jolley!

Glad to hear that your V seems better now.

[Bill R]

I changed the rear diff oil in our 2005 CRV recently and the dealer had the Dual Pump fluid 11 which I put in. Old oil was nice and clean and I didn't have any noise but changed the oil anyway. Oil is cheaper than parts!!!