How does the diesel compare to petrol? [Archive]

Hughesy

03-25-2008, 12:00 PM

I haven't driven the petrol CR-V.
However I have driven the 2.2 diesel Civic, Accord & CR-V.
In petrol I've only driven the 2.0 Euro Accord.
In the Accord the diesel feels quicker, although the performance is actually about the same.
The diesel Civic was quite nippy compared with the CR-V!

In the UK we only get the 2.0 petrol CR-V, which is a bit anemic.

WaterTiger

03-29-2008, 05:22 PM

I had a diesel Civic as a loaner while mine was in getting the tow-bar fitted ~ you're right, really nippy!

Also had an auto petrol when mine was in for it's 1st service - a horribly slow, asthmatic nail, and it only had 2K on it!

Jimbo_EX

03-31-2008, 09:04 AM

Red916

04-04-2008, 03:28 AM

The diesel Civic gets a HUGE thumbsup from me! :D

and that's before you make the call to the tuning companies... ;)

I'll be going diesel on the CRV too :)

mtl_crv

04-10-2008, 07:15 AM

I haven't driven the petrol CR-V.
In the UK we only get the 2.0 petrol CR-V, which is a bit anemic.

Good gravy that is a small motor for such a large vehicle. Even the north american 2.4L is on the small side for my tastes (unless you really hammer it). I would have liked to have the 3.5L Accord motor (or even better your 2.2 i-CTDI) as an option like they did with the Toyota Rav4 with it's 3.5L petrol rocket pack (very spirited and excellent fuel economy if you keep your road manners).

Hughesy

04-10-2008, 04:04 PM

I don't think there would be many takers in the UK for the 2.4 auto CR-V. It only does 26 UK mpg, compared to 34 UK mpg 2.0 auto and 44 UK mpg manual diesel.

I don't mind doing 26 mpg in something that is stupidly quick, but in a CR-V? It would make me feel sick, like just burning bank notes!

A BMW 550i with 367 horse power and 0-60 in 5.5 sec does 27 UK mpg.
The diesel 535d does 0-60 in 6.5 sec and acheives 42 UK mpg.
The Range Rover TDV8 auto has 270 horse power and 472 lb/ft, and still does 25 UK mpg.

mtl_crv

04-14-2008, 11:10 AM

I don't think there would be many takers in the UK for the 2.4 auto CR-V. It only does 26 UK mpg, compared to 34 UK mpg 2.0 auto and 44 UK mpg manual diesel.

That doesn't sound right. The 2008 CRV (AWD) with the 2.4L over here is rated at 20 city / 26 hwy in US mpg or 24 city / 31.2 hwy UK mpg so that 26 UK mpg for the 2.4L must be a combined number if it is correct. Just for comparison of the other figures, 26 UK mpg would be 21.7 US mpg, 34 UK mpg would be 28.3 US mpg and 44 UK mpg would be 36.7 US mpg.

BMW 550i @27 UK mpg = 22.5 US mpg
BMW 535d @ 42 UK mpg = 35.0 US mpg
RR TDV8 @ 25 UK mpg = 20.8 US mpg

Those all sound fairly normal to me.

I saw diesel prices over on your side of the pond are about 8% higher than petrol so that is fairly comparable to what we see up here in Canada as a difference between gas and diesel fuel prices per liter. So if diesel engines are about 30% more efficient than a petrol engine, then you'd definately be better off buying a diesel in the long run.

tenntrains

04-14-2008, 12:26 PM

Our Diesel is averaging $4.00 a gallon and gas is 3.20 average.
So that equals out to the point that fuel economy is about the same so I don't see paying the extra for the Diesel engine. :eek: I do love diesel. I have driven a MB Diesel for the last 20 years

Hughesy

04-14-2008, 01:24 PM

That doesn't sound right. The 2008 CRV (AWD) with the 2.4L over here is rated at 20 city / 26 hwy in US mpg or 24 city / 31.2 hwy UK mpg so that 26 UK mpg for the 2.4L must be a combined number if it is correct. Just for comparison of the other figures, 26 UK mpg would be 21.7 US mpg, 34 UK mpg would be 28.3 US mpg and 44 UK mpg would be 36.7 US mpg.

BMW 550i @27 UK mpg = 22.5 US mpg
BMW 535d @ 42 UK mpg = 35.0 US mpg
RR TDV8 @ 25 UK mpg = 20.8 US mpg

Those all sound fairly normal to me.

All the figures are combined. The combined figure for the 2.4 auto (http://automobiles.honda.com/cr-v/specifications.aspx?group=epa) is 22 US mpg. That is incredibly poor compared with 37 US mpg from the diesel!

To put in persective, the fuel consumption of the 166 horse power 2.4 CR-V is the same as a 367 horse power V8 BMW! If the BMW mpg is normal, surely the CR-V is poor?

mtl_crv

04-15-2008, 08:59 AM

All the figures are combined. The combined figure for the 2.4 auto (http://automobiles.honda.com/cr-v/specifications.aspx?group=epa) is 22 US mpg. That is incredibly poor compared with 37 US mpg from the diesel!

To put in persective, the fuel consumption of the 166 horse power 2.4 CR-V is the same as a 367 horse power V8 BMW! If the BMW mpg is normal, surely the CR-V is poor?

Comparing diesel and petrol motors is not a fair comparison (that's also before you factor in the growing price spread on the two fuels) and neither is sedan vs SUV. I don't know what the frontal area, drag Cd, weight, emissions restrictions, etc is for that V8 BMW, but I certainly doubt you could say the two vehicles could be interchanged in a utilitarian manner. So basically the gas mileage comparison needs to happen between similar vehicles to make it reasonable. Is the 2.4L North American CRV a poor performer versus the 2.0L UK version? Hard to say, but I'm sure there were compromises at some level because I seriously doubt Honda would give up fuel economy just to let the marketing guys have a bigger motor.

Hughesy

04-15-2008, 02:47 PM

I agree with your comments about comparison.
Still, not many people in the UK buy the 2.0 petrol CR-V because of poor fuel consumption. Virtually no one would buy the 2.4 because <30 UK mpg is worse than almost all cars on the road. That's why they don't sell the 2.4 in the UK! They sell the 2.4 Euro Accord, but that is in the highest road tax bracket, so will probably struggle in the future.

I considered the petrol, because I wanted an auto (not available in the diesel). However, the additional fuel cost was too much. The diesel doesn't cost any more than the petrol to buy, because you get the money back come resale time.

In modern cars, diesel is the higher performance choice. That might be a controversial statement in the US, but it's true. Compare a BMW 120i with 123d, or Audi A8 4.2 petrol with 4.2 diesel. Petrol is the performance underdog these days!

mtl_crv

04-15-2008, 05:13 PM

I forgot that the UK also has a yearly emissions tax based on the fuel economy of the vehicle. Now that completely makes sense why people would opt for smaller and smaller petrol engines and that most people would head towards diesel because it would kill two birds with one stone (performance and fuel economy would both benefit).

Just for others who might be curious about the tax, here's the bands:
UK Car Tax Bands - Cost of Car Tax by Type of Car (http://www.whatprice.co.uk/car/car-tax.html)

Hughesy

04-17-2008, 12:21 PM

From April 2009 there is a 13 band system, with a £950 first year tax for the highest band:
Low Carbon CO2 Green Car Guide To Fuel Duty, Road Tax & Congestion Charge (http://www.whatgreencar.com/whygreen.php#ved2)

Luckily for me, my other car is a hybrid Civic in band C, which is only £30 /year.

Company car tax is also based on CO2.
VCAcarfueldata.org.uk - Database Search by Company Car Tax (http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/companyCarTaxSearch.asp)

mtl_crv

04-19-2008, 05:49 PM

From April 2009 there is a 13 band system, with a £950 first year tax for the highest band:

Gas guzzlers are definately getting relegated to those with considerable disposable income. :eek:

Jimbo_EX

04-22-2008, 04:24 AM

My original question was aimed at the on road performance of models, but some interesing discussions here.
In the CRV brochure the official Honda 0-60 is 10.2 for vtec and 10.3 for the ctdi. I quickly began to feel that the ctdi is quicker than that. I've noticed that 2 UK car magazines at least (Autocar and What Car) own test figures clock the ctdi 0-60 at 9.3 secs.
So I was wondering how the ctdi felt in real world terms relative to the petrol when it comes to straight line performance, and also handling..

netlang

04-22-2008, 06:02 AM

I previously owned a Honda Accord 2.2 diesel stick shift and around town I averaged 38 mpg (UK). I know have a CRV2 EX (2007) petrol auto and doing the same runs I get 30 mpg (UK).

On a recent highway run (300 mile round trip) using cruise control I got 42 MPG (UK) and on the same run in the Accord it never got better than 48 MPG (UK).

I bought the petrol because it is the last of the old model and the dealer discounted the car by around £7500 and I thought £7500 would buy a lot of gas. (In the UK approx 36000 miles worth) so for me the petrol was the way to go and it is so smooth and quiet compared with the diesel although the diesel has much more torque.

Martin

04-23-2008, 11:51 AM

Im just wondering has anyone driven both the CTDI and 2.0 manual petrol? What is the driving experience like in the petrol - does it feel much slower without the slug of torque at 2k revs?

2.2 CDTI is amazing, best diesel I have ever driven are far outwieghs the petrols in terms of performance and efficency.

WaterTiger

04-29-2008, 04:09 PM

Sorry, do you mean auto petrol CRV or Civic?

Apologies for the ambiguity - I meant an auto, petrol CR-V. I'm not a particular fan of small (sub 2.5 litre) auto engines whatever their fuel, mainly due to the power loss associated with auto-boxes. By the accounts I've heard, plus my own experience with the loaner, the petrol versions of the CR-V need all the help they can get!

I believe I posted elsewhere that my mate has recently bought a '99 manual petrol CR-V for his wife to use in her business. I'm going to ask him for a wee drive in it soon, just for compsarison purposes.

bernithebiker

07-06-2008, 01:06 PM

I have not driven any petrol CRV's, but I have driven quite alot of different cars; I used to own an Audi S4.

I feel that the CRV 2.2Cdti is an excellent engine. Smooth, not too noisy, revs freely, and has excellent torque across the range. (Although, like many modern diesels it is a bit gutless below 1500rpm). But as soon as you approach 2000rpm the torque kicks in and off you go. Revs nicely to 5000rpm, I don't ever really go beyond that.

I would not want to own the 2.0 litre petrol. I am pretty certain it would feel underpowered (or more precisely, undertorqued). And it uses more fuel.

I already find that the 140hp that the Cdti puts out is only just enough for my driving style - I heard rumours that soon Honda will be upping the output to 150hp - anyone know more about that?

Oh, and just off topic a bit, I just changed my oil at 30 000km (was 1st serviced at 20 000km). Wasn't difficult, and not strictly necessary, but I got a good deal on some Castrol Magnatec 5w-40.

macfife

07-08-2008, 02:40 PM

macfife

07-08-2008, 02:54 PM

Just read through the other diesel threads and realised the i-DTEC engine is also discussed there so please ignore my contribution ! :)

bernithebiker

07-10-2008, 05:16 AM

Just read through the other diesel threads and realised the i-DTEC engine is also discussed there so please ignore my contribution ! :)

Any contribution is useful! How different is the i-DTEC from the current engine? I would be suprised if they have made fundamental changes to shape, block, etc. Perhaps it's just a reworking of valve timing, turbo, etc.? In which case it would slot straight into the CRV....?

macfife

07-10-2008, 09:19 AM

Have not done any research into the diffs in any detail to be honest and was only basing my comments on what the dealer mentioned to me with regards to the fittment of the engine and with regards to the accord having a much longer nose etc etc.

I am sure Honda have plans for this engine to not just for the accord but I suppose we have to wait and see.

Anyway my CRV is bought now with the current diesel and its the first time I have owned a Honda and overall I am very very pleased with it after 4 weeks of ownership. :)

WaterTiger

07-12-2008, 04:50 PM

Just new to this forum after purchasing the 2.2 i-CTDi 3 weeks ago :)

The rumours regarding the 150hp Engine may revolve around the new i-DTEC Engine that will debut in the new Accord. This engine may in fact end up in the CRV but I think there may be issues around the size/shape and how this is squeezed in. I suppose where there is a will there is a way !

Its sounds logical as the i-DTEC is the next generation of diesel from Honda.

......other option is to get the 2.2 i-CTDi engine chipped from the 140hp to 192hp which I believe is quite easy done and available on the market :)

http://www.celtictuning.co.uk/Car%20Tuning/vehicles/honda/honda-CR-V-ecu-remap-chip-engine-tuning.html (http://www.celtictuning.co.uk/Car%20Tuning/vehicles/honda/honda-CR-V-ecu-remap-chip-engine-tuning.html)

These guys are probably who you're thinking of if you're in the UK. I will be doing this as soon as I can clear enough time in my diary!!

macfife

07-14-2008, 02:13 PM

yeh, looked these guys up a week or so back and it does sound like a straight forward upgrade. Not decided if I will go ahead or not due to insurance implications etc. I am tempted though :)

Jimbo_EX

07-15-2008, 09:45 AM

Celtic Tuning - Honda CR-V ECU Remap (http://www.celtictuning.co.uk/Car%20Tuning/vehicles/honda/honda-CR-V-ecu-remap-chip-engine-tuning.html)

These guys are probably who you're thinking of if you're in the UK. I will be doing this as soon as I can clear enough time in my diary!!

Let us know how you get on!

doopydug

07-31-2008, 05:29 PM

Hi macfife - -are you from Fife by any chance - am having doubts about noises coming from my 4 week old cdti engine - seems very coarse and loud for my liking. Wondered how yours was? Every review I read says its quiet and refined but mine isnt

macfife

08-17-2008, 12:23 PM

Sorry for the delayed response as been away and yes for my sins I am from the Kingdom ! :).

I know what you mean with regards to the refinement but I mainly find it a wee bit rough in 1st and 2nd but it gets a bit smoother from 3rd upwards. I had a V6 diesel in my previous motor and the CRV is in comparison to that it a lot less refined being a 4 pot.

However I think it is quite quiet on idle and on comparison to many of the VW/Audi 4 pot diesels I think the Honda is a very good unit.

doopydug

08-20-2008, 05:40 PM

From Kirkcaldy myself !

Red916

08-28-2008, 03:17 AM

not sure how I've missed this thread until now! :o

various bits of spurious info: :D
the 2.2 engine does take a little while to bed in, and in the first few thousand miles can sound a bit clattery...
But this does go away (not completly, but enough) :)

I had the same engine in my previous car - the 8th Gen Civic - and after about 6K miles it got to the point where I just didn't notice it anymore, except maybe when cold, or if I had been too lazy to change down from 6th at 30mph LOL

It's a great engine, and I love it - which is why I went for it again in the CRV :D

Regards Celtic tuning - I know of several people who have done just this (on the Civic), and can't praise it highly enough!
SuperChip also do an option also giving 192bhp - higher cost, but with a warranty (if that sort of thing matters to you)

Anyone interested is seeing real world customer feedback on the various tuning options for the 2.2 could do worse than popping across to Civinfo - Honda Civic Forum (http://www.civinfo.com) and looking in the engine section - particularly in the 'more oomph for your 2.2' thread

Tell em TTDegs sent you! :D

Adamantium

10-31-2008, 10:15 AM

I'm new and live in london.

Just bought a crv diesel, purely for the performance over the petrol and nothing to do with fuel costs, although despite what is said in this and other threads they are still cheaper to run more so as the price of diesel and petrol goes up, despite the 10% price difference.

I expect to get mine remapped as soon as possible and will certainly be speaking to celtic about it. I am really not sure why people are placing so mch trust in superchips warranty, I suspect it won't be worth the paper it probably isn't written on.

ln1234

11-09-2008, 05:03 PM

I've recently got a 2005 diesel cr-v, and live in London as well. Mine is quite high mileage but runs really well.

A family member has the petrol cr-v and the difference in fuel economy is like night and day. admittedly the petrol cr-v is an auto, but they get around 17mpg driving around London town and I get about 32mpg.

Would be good to share info with fellow UK diesel owners