CMBS and ACC

[Mal113]

I would be very interested to hear from any CR-V or other Honda owners that have the safety pack fitted to their vehicle and have suffered the problem that is outlined below.

I have had two occasions when the CMBS/ACC system has operated and applied the brakes, once a few days after purchase when it applied the brakes while moving in a slow line of traffic, the brakes where applied so hard that all four passengers and a child in a child seat where thrown forward. As the car was new to me, I considered that I had done something wrong to cause the problem and as it was in a line of traffic I considered that it might be normal. The second time however, was a very dangerous situation where I was travelling up the A1 just short of York with the ACC on and set to 65 miles/hour I had pulled out into the centre lane to pass a large truck, I must add that I had pulled out early enough that the ACC had not seen the truck as potential hazard. As I draw along side the truck, half away down it’s length (at 65 mph) the brakes came on without warning throwing both the passenger and myself into the seat belts. As soon as the brakes had been applied with this extreme force they where released and the car regain speed. I had no warning that this was going to happen and the speed at which it occurred left me unable to respond to the situation. At this time I switched off the ACC and have never used it since. Had the road been wet or had a vehicle been following me closely it could have caused an accident. This problem was reported to Chathams Honda of Edinburgh (where the vehicle was purchased) they contacted Honda UK and the reply from Honda was that this is how it works and was NORMAL and they sent an attachment to outline the system.

The outline of the attachment is as follows: -

CMBS Activate condition
The system can activate (warn the driver, apply the brakes) when it detects or encounters these situations: -

Metallic projections or the road
Metallic manhole and drain covers
Signs and guardrails ahead
Low overpasses and narrow gates
Approaching vehicles that are turning left or right
Passing slower vehicles ahead

The system will not activate (no warning or intervention) when it detects or encounters these situations: -

Low-speed, heavy traffic (such as in a traffic jam)
Being cut-off by a slower vehicle
Approach a vehicle stopped at an angle
Driving on curves approaching bicycle or moped
Dirt or snow on the emblem
Heavy rain or snow.

I have concerns that a system that can apply the brakes according to Honda when it detects Metallic projections or the road, what does road mean? This indicates that the system could apply the brakes at any time?
Metallic manhole and drain covers there are many of these covers set in roads so you must consider that the brakes can also be applied.

In the case I have described and the information from Honda I must say I am surprised what I consider to be a hazardous system is allowed on vehicles operating on UK roads, I am sure that if a driver of a vehicle applied the brakes as described and caused an accident, that driver would be charged with driving without due care and attention or dangerous driving. Further, there have been a number of other occassion when the system has flash the brake warning on the dash display but not applied the brakes, it all cases there has been not obstruction to be seen on the road.

[Jimbo_EX]

I dont have the system myself, but I have read about this system - others do have issues with this system behaving erratically.

[Mal113]

Thanks for the info, the problem has been reported to VOSA but I do need to hear from other owners with this problem. So if you are out there please post your concerns then maybe we can get some action to resolve the problem.

[Mal113]

Honda checked the vehicle on Friday the 22nd August and the test computer showed three occasions when the CMBS system had activated causing the vehicle to brake. The fault code is followed by the mileage at which the fault occurred and from that, I can determine the three occasion when this fault caused the vehicle to brake excessively without there being any obstacle on the road ahead.

Again I would ask if there are other owners out there with this problem please let me know so we can get action from Honda and add to the report to VOSA so they are aware of other cases.

[Jimbo_EX]

YYou could post this on What car website - reader review section - you may get feedback from there. I have a feeling that this is where i read about other peoples issues. Try the Accord reviews also as this car also has the system.
CRV reviews, with a link to submit your own comments -
Honda CR-V 4x4 Reader Reviews - What Car? (http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?MA=14&RT=898&Submit1=GO)

[DaveC]

I posted a while back on my experience with the CMBS.

I've turned it off as it's extremely annoying in traffic, especially when it tugs the seat belt back.

But, I have to say I've never had it engage without there being something in front of me.

[Mal113]

Dave.

I wonder if you could direct me to the post you made some time ago. I note you say you have turned off the CMBS system, so have I, but when you use the ACC it is automatically engaged to enable the ACC to work. On two of the occasions when the brakes have applied it was when ACC was being used and in both cases with no obstruction ahead. The other occasion was in a traffic jam when the brakes were applied for no reason, as we where moving very slowly. I note, you say the seat belts were tighten before braking, that has never happen to me just an alarm the brake warning sign and brakes applied, it happens so quickly that by the time you hear the alarm the brakes have applied. Honda’s response is that it is operating normally!!!

If there are other readers out there with this problem then please post your comments so we can get Honda to correct this problem. It seems we have paid a great deal of money for something that is useless.

[DaveC]

I wonder if you could direct me to the post you made some time ago

it's near the bottom of the page:

http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/t2037/

You say that there was nothing in front of you, but was there something to the side of you whilst you were on a bend ? That's when the ACC starts to brake, I've found.

Cheers
Dave

[Mal113]

Dave.

No, the road was straight in all cases, with no signs or other pieces of hardware along the road, the A1 Incident was while passing a large truck (halfway along it’s length), my view is a system that can brake without warning under those circumstances is at best a hazard and worse dangerous to both the vehicle occupants and other road users. Honda’s view it’s normal. Can I ask if you no longer use the ACC system?

There has been three occasions when the system has applied the brakes and at least a further 8/9 when it has indicated brake but not applied the brakes and in all instances where the road was straight with nothing that I could see that should have caused the warning

[DaveC]

I use the ACC occasionally, but only in light traffic. And I usually have my foot over the accellerator as it cuts the radar when you accelerate.

Do you clean the Honda badge at the front regularly? I had an instance once where it was so dirty that the ACC would not engage. Once I'd cleaned it at the next stop, it worked ok.

Cheers
Dave

[mourgos]

I am using CMBS and ACC for 12 months,never had such problems, I have only activate the first alarm (Audio) twice and it was a good reason for this.

The only complain I have is that in heavy traffic (Greece) when someone pass me and accidentally brakes hard in frond of me, CMBS is not very fast to react so you have to really pay attention for situations like this,or not to use it (in heavy traffic).

I believe that definitely is something wrong with your car.

I would rate the system as very good,is very helpful and reliable, my next car will have CMBS and ACC also.

[jimpao]

Have you ever try to overtake a Bus or a large truck on a small country road in Greece (στενό επαρχιακό όλο φουρκέτες δρόμο) get really close to the vehicle in front of you with CMBS on? I did it couple of times and CMBS didn’t let me overtake. It’s really safe especially if you have kids on board.

[wiz2003]

I have also been using ACC and CMBS for more than a year now and, apart from minor problems that could mostly easily be explained I have had no such problems.
The only problems that I have experienced are that the ACC has, on 3 occasions shut down - the ACC symbol changing to Orange and the other warnings being present (beeping etc.).
Turning the ignition off for a short period resets the alarms, but when attempting to activate the ACC it beeps and does not set.
Switching the ignition off for an extended period, say, more than 30 minutes, restores normal functionality.
This is frustrating as it is not always convenient to stop for 30+ minutes.

[Mal113]

Since my last mail on this subject Honda has checked the vehicle twice and found nothing wrong (two of the three occasion have been witnessed, lucky), however, the CMBS has activated three times for no reason. It is my believe that the CMBS radar like most radar system suffers from side lobe problems which can give a ghost image that in this case is seen as a hazard and the brakes via CMBS are applied. It’s noticeable that VOLVO recognised this failing and use a camera in conjunction with the radar to stop false application of the CMBS system.

The second check was carried out in the main due to UK Government agency VOSA (Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) and Honda must now report to VOSA their findings or in this case lack of findings. The question I have asked Honda to consider is this, if I were to be driving on the Motorway and applied the brakes for no reason at 65 MPH that resulted in the Vehicle I was driving loosing control or causing a vehicle behind to brake and loose control or the vehicle behind hit my vehicle, I believe the police would charge me with one of two things, Driving without due care and attention or dangerous driving. With this in mind I still firmly believe this vehicle needs to be modified to stop CMBS application randomly and without warning as now occurred.

In order to add weight to this case I have set up an e-mail address at hondacmbs@live.co.uk where you can contact me so we can further discuss the problem and a put pressure on Honda to act.