Car Accident

[fillsteak]

Long story short: My CRV is damaged.
Long story: Driving back home at 9pm at night with two friends in the car, I was in the left-most lane driving a little below the speed limit (50 in a 55). This eclipse comes from the right and wedges in front of the car in front of me and hits the brakes. The car in front of me weaves out of the lane as to not hit and I slam on my brakes with no where to go. I end up hitting the eclipse and pushing that car into the intersection. The light is green. The clipse (she) has her left turn signal on to make a left turn. There is a seperate left turn-only lane seperated by a concrete median. This middle-aged woman gets out of the eclipse, walks completed around her car (around the front to the back) looking at her car and drives away. She doesn't look at me, doesn't want to exchange info, etc. In the meantime, I've called the police to report the accident that I've caused and report the license plate of the car driving away. I pull over to a popeyes (yum) and wait for the police. The officer (chick) is a major B to me and even said, "Not to make you sound stupid, but why did you call the police?" Has society changed that much since I was a kid? The whole police stuff aside, the car was registered to an address up the street and since she wasn't around and my other witness (the car in front of me) wasn't around, there was no reason for the police to be there or for an accident report to be generated.

My poor V is not damaged and the costs to repair will be determined soon. I have not reported this to insurance. I have not called the police back again.

You, the reader, can judge if I am at fault or not (I do not believe so) based on what I've said. But for the most part, this is a rant and backstory to the following pictures.

The damage doesn't look TOO too bad, but any damage in my opinion is bad. I'll do my best to follow up with this post and submit estimates/parts and hopefully (if not terribly expensive) my out-of-pocket and mechanic shop fixes with the end result (whatever that may be). Tis a sad day for me.

[davos]

You were absolutely right calling police. The other driver should be charged with "hit and run" violation. I would report it to insurance company and their lawyer will most likely be able get conviction just because other driver left accident scene. If you have not received police report I would go to precinct and demanded one - that's just ridicules - that is their job.

[aslguy]

I agree...you were right in calling the police. I had a friend who was in a similar accident and was CITED because he was "following too closely." When he told me, I was incredulous. Apparently, we're supposed to anticipate everything (even a deer jumping out in front of you on an urban interstate).

It's frustrating...I'm a very defensive driver. I never speed, change lanes without warning, tailgate, or anything and in the last 2.5 years I've been in three accidents (ran over a dresser drawer on a packed highway with no room for an evasive maneuver, car got hit by a pontoon boat while parked on a street, and hit a deer). It just doesn't add up.

Best of luck to you and your V.

[Black Pearl]

I agree theoretically with the members above, but from practical sense you may be better off fixing your V and leaving it go. Without witnesses its your word against hers as to who is at fault. Yes, Yes, theoretically justice should be done, but it could get quite messy doing it. Her rendition of the story will be much different than yours. I can hear it now, "Your honor, I left the scene because this individual made threatening gestures at me after smashing into my car." bla bla. "And your honor ever since this individual smashed into my car, I have had neck pain, I have had trouble sleeping. My performance at work has suffered, I lost a fabulous commission on a low prime house sale. My libido has suffered." You could end up getting screwed big time.

My advice, get an estimate on the V, and do it quick. If it is something you can handle, just get it fixed and forget about it. If it turns out to be expensive then decide what to do, but do so expediently.

One thing I would advise is cease stating things like this:

"I've called the police to report the accident that I've caused and report the license plate of the car driving away."

It don't sound to me that you caused the accident, she did, so you want to state that in the terms of "I was involved in an accident" not caused!

I wished I could give you different advice, and I am certainly no expert in these things, but I think you could end up with the short end of the stick on this. If you are going to pursue it, make damn sure the law is on your side and you are not going to get blamed for the accident.

EDIT: BTW, I do think you were right for calling the police. The officer's reaction was crass and terrible. Did you call at donut time? But if your friend in the Eclipse does change her mind and decide to report this accident, with perhaps a far different tale than you have, you have it on record that you did the right thing (regardless who is at fault). I still don't buy this accident was your fault from what you described, and I would be extremely careful with your language not to be accepting blame.

[davos]

Did you call at donut time?
:):D:)
Yep, that my be a reason

[Black Pearl]

After re-reading your original post, I just realized that I completely missed the fact that you had two friends in the car. Are they not witnesses that can testify in your behalf? Didn't the cop have any interest in what they had to say? Very strange! That must have been a jelly filled donut that you interrupted!

It sounds to me that the Eclipse made an illegal left turn from the fast lane rather than being in the proper left turn lane. Is this correct? Can your friends collaborate this?

Again I am no expert but it sounds to me that 1) the Eclipse caused the accident by wedging into your lane and stopping to make an illegal left turn. 2) The Eclipse illegally left the scene of the accident. 3) You have two witnesses that can verify your story.

If your damage is minor and you can get it fixed with little economic duress, I think I would still advise you to fix it and forget it. You get involved with the law, you can't always be sure how it will turn out.

Do realize that I am still waiting for my law degree to come from one of those off shore universities that you never heard of, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

[aslguy]

I've been a witness to a few accidents, and the officer always asked if I knew any of the people involved in the accident. I'm not sure that having friends in the car would be adequate corroboration.

[fillsteak]

Thanks for all of your concerns and different points of view on this matter. My main point of putting this post up was so you can see a damaged V and feel for the V. Seeing how many of you feel for ME, that brings a single tear down the right side of my cheek.

Back to the issue at hand, I'm pretty much in trouble with anything that happens.

Since this was not reported by the officer as an 'accident' as there wasn't $1k+ of damage, there is not 'scene of the accident' for the other drive to flee from.

People in the car are never reliable witnesses unless in terrible situations (like the head-on with a drunk my two friends and I were in (we weren't the drunk)).

I think the cop has a right to be kind of an jerk initially seeing as how they deal with dozens of people a day, most of which are idiots, but she should have switched to a helpful mode once she realized we were normal people and acting very calm. If we were madly upset, freaking out, and going all over the place, yeah, she can be more of a jerk to remain on top of the 'situation,' but whatever.

I'm taking my V in on Saturday for an estimate and hopefully to bend the front radiator support back in place. All sorts of parts are cracked or broken, but still function, so I can replace them one-at-a-time by myself, but I can't bend the metal by myself.

Thank you again for the support, inquiries, and ideas! I will follow up with more pictures and estimates after this weekend. Have a great one!

[Radar24]

I agree with aslguy. Friends or acquaintances cannot be legal witnesses in Connecticut or New Hampshire. It sucks but that is how it is. Reason being is it would be easy to have them see it your way or not be impartial. I learned that 40 years ago after I just got my license when an MGB rolled back into my dad’s Impala while stopped at a light. He claimed neck injury! :mad:

The primary reason you are screwed is that you have front-end damage and no impartial witnesses! When a cop sees front end damage they automatically assume you are at fault without contradictory impartial witnesses. :(

I have no idea what the typical insurance SOP is in your state but any damage under a certain amount is not counted against your rate. It is probably around $1000. They just write it off. So it would not hurt your rate or license points. As long as the bimbo does not claim false injury or damage!

So your best option to me seems to use your collision to fix the damage. Your only expense would be your deductible. I cannot say for sure but it looks like there might be a lot of clip disconnected or damaged with a slight tweaking of the radiator support. If no metal parts have to be replaced or welded, it might not be all that expensive to repair assuming that the hood and left fender don’t have to be replaced. And that you do not strive for perfection. That is with a slight scratch, dent or ding on the plastic front end you will not want one or more expensive plastic parts to be replaced. Plastic rivets and screws can easily replace OEM attachment clip.

You will have to see what the estimate is to get it back to like new versus it is good enough so it will not affect your insurance rate. It is your call.

It really does not look that bad! Honda clips and plastic parts are reasonable bought online. Some are even pre-painted. The problem is a lot of cheap parts add up quickly! The real key is how much damage there is to the radiator support and the left front frame to which everything else lines up and attaches to. So it looks acceptably lined up when done. If it can be tweaked back into position then you are all set. However this lining up job of the radiator support and frame if needed is most likely best left up to an expert on an alignment machine! Minimum charge to put it on an alignment machine is $200-300. Then a few hours labor to straighten thing out. Sounds like you might be able to handle the rest. It’s hard to tell. But that is one way to get it under the magic number which they just write it off.

Count your blessings no one was hurt!
Good Luck!

-RG

[Davecr-v]

I agree theoretically with the members above, but from practical sense you may be better off fixing your V and leaving it go. Without witnesses its your word against hers as to who is at fault. Yes, Yes, theoretically justice should be done, but it could get quite messy doing it. Her rendition of the story will be much different than yours. I can hear it now, "Your honor, I left the scene because this individual made threatening gestures at me after smashing into my car." bla bla. "And your honor ever since this individual smashed into my car, I have had neck pain, I have had trouble sleeping. My performance at work has suffered, I lost a fabulous commission on a low prime house sale. My libido has suffered." You could end up getting screwed big time.

My advice, get an estimate on the V, and do it quick. If it is something you can handle, just get it fixed and forget about it. If it turns out to be expensive then decide what to do, but do so expediently.

One thing I would advise is cease stating things like this:

"I've called the police to report the accident that I've caused and report the license plate of the car driving away."

It don't sound to me that you caused the accident, she did, so you want to state that in the terms of "I was involved in an accident" not caused!

I wished I could give you different advice, and I am certainly no expert in these things, but I think you could end up with the short end of the stick on this. If you are going to pursue it, make damn sure the law is on your side and you are not going to get blamed for the accident.

EDIT: BTW, I do think you were right for calling the police. The officer's reaction was crass and terrible. Did you call at donut time? But if your friend in the Eclipse does change her mind and decide to report this accident, with perhaps a far different tale than you have, you have it on record that you did the right thing (regardless who is at fault). I still don't buy this accident was your fault from what you described, and I would be extremely careful with your language not to be accepting blame.
I agree if you ran into the back of someone it legally is your fault even if they caused the accident in reality. The only issue is the person you hit should have said something not just drove off. My dad bumped a car while pulling into a drive way at maybe 3 MPH he sued my dad for back injuries for 2 million bucks, the guy lost the case because of the police report the car was rusted out but didn't sustain damage plus the guys 70 year old mom had no injuries.

[Radar24]

I agree if you ran into the back of someone it legally is your fault even if they caused the accident in reality. The only issue is the person you hit should have said something not just drove off. My dad bumped a car while pulling into a drive way at maybe 3 MPH he sued my dad for back injuries for 2 million bucks, the guy lost the case because of the police report the car was rusted out but didn't sustain damage plus the guys 70 year old mom had no injuries.

It varies from state to state but if someone changes lanes and cuts you off causing you to run into someone, with impartial witnesses I believe you can sue the person that changed lanes. They are the ones that started the sequence of events culminating in the accident. You of course have to prove that you had sufficient distance between you and the car that you ran into for the speed you were going at.

I do not quite understand the accident fillsteak had. There was too much emotion and not enough clear details for my burned-out brain. What I just wrote in the above paragraph should apply in most states. Should apply as far as I rationalize but not necessarily. The law can be funny sometimes.

Of course all of us with our new Vs feel for you fillsteak. It could just as well have been one of us taking pictures of our pride and joy with all kinds of broken plastic. Except for the bumper reenforcement, the entire front end is plastic. The drivers in and from Massachusetts are crazy. No courtesy and they think they own the road! They will cut you off often just to save a second or two in commuting time or because you are only going 5 miles over the speed limit!


My daughter one morning in her 4 months old $19,700 ’06 Corolla S hit black ice going at maybe 55-60 MPH. The VSA and ABS does not work well on really slick ice so she spun around and the front end kissed sideways the center lane Jersey barrier. Not head-on fortunately. The car looked like a small explosion went off in the engine compartment. The hood, both fenders and all the front end trim and grill had considerable damage. The bumper cover was lying on the road completely detached. Fortunately only the top radiator support had to be replaced an interestingly enough there was no frame damage at all! The front bumper reinforcement under the bumper cover had no damage too.

The initial estimate was just over $9k using all OEM Toyota parts due to being so new. Then a few more parts had to be ordered, one of them was the ABS module itself. It was OK and functional but a plastic protection piece for the ABS was broken. ABS being relatively new on Toyotas neither it nor the plastic was available used. The new not rebuilt MSRP cost was over $4000 for just the ABS module. The final cost to fix the Corolla S was over $14,000. Just shy of the 75% total threshold.

They left it looking just like in new condition with no telltale signs of any work being done at all! And I really scrutinized it. The work was done by the body shop for a BMW, VW, Mazda and Pontiac/GMC dealer. I talked to the guy doing the work and he was extremely sharp and meticulous. Not in a rush when doing the work! Once again they left it just like in new condition!

Your damage fillsteak is minimal in comparison.

-RG

[electric V]

ya the dammage to your V is not all that bad. When I had my license for about 2 months I was in my first accident. I rear ended someone (It was completly my fault) but the front bumper on the V is a real peice of crap. My V had about $4,200 of dammage on it. But nothing was seriously broken other than my pride and the AC fan.

The V is really built solidly other than the bumper and the reinforcement on the front bumper. It looked like I drove off a cliff and fell 100ft to the bottom but in reality i was going about 10-15 MPH and rear ended a Focus.

I lookes like there should be no problem wth your V other than the looks.

[tcturner]

What did the Focus look like because you must of hit him high or just above his bumper?

[electric V]

The focus was in perfect codition. just a small square scratch on the rear bumper from my License plate. The reinforcement for the bumper is too high up on the V and it forced all the pressure upwards onto the grill and the hood. although it was better my car than his.

[StunGunna]

First off... glad ur ok and not 2 much damage to the Vee. Could have been worse.

That said, I agree with almost all the other writers.
1. You were RIGHT to call the cops... that's what intelligent, law abiding people do.
2. Cops can suck sometimes, but when u put your foot down and ask for a PAPER copy of the incident report (you will need to pay $10 or $15) it will help your insurance claim if you want to file one.
3. NEVER ever admit guilt in an accident, especially in writing. In fact you need to edit this post on the forum.
4. Compare the cost of your deductible with the cost of out of pocket and track down that Eclipse driver. I do not know when the statute of limitations on auto related accidents expires, but you should act quickly.

Good luck partner. I wont be long-winded. This is not rocket science. Be VERY assertive in dealinig with this and have some coherent and plausible witnesses and evidence. You should be fine... you gotta good heart. Peace

[fillsteak]

I went to a honda dealer (Honda of Tysons up on route 7, VA, near the Tysons Corner Mall). Bought some Honda parts from them in the past so I thought I'd give them a try and see what they think.

The estimate is $2,200!! Holy guacamole! The inspector there said that anything that goes through their dealership has to pass all Honda safety and quality standards blah blah blah. So in short, they will _replace_ everything instead of just pulling out the dent. He said that certain things (like the bumper and radiator) can probably be left in if there isn't "significant" damage and that will lower my costs a few hundred each.

I knew the dealer would be a high range of my price ballpark, but I just wanted a worst-case price if I have to end up at the dealer in the future. Parts were ~$1.1k and the labor was the rest (paint included). The nice thing, however, is that he claimed that all work and parts associated with this will be covered by warranty. Certain notable parts are the A/C condensor and radiator/radiator fans. Not that I'm expecting these to go bad anytime soon, but having them replaced and warranted by Honda isn't a bad thing.

The problem with my hit is that the upper engine bay bar is bent in and down. The radiator supports (and radiator) are bent/pushed in. The car (Vs are awesome) runs great and nothing is leaking; no troubles driving at all!

I had a friend who knows a shop get them to heat up and pop out my bumper so that looks great. They also fixed the hood latch so it finally locks down (no more beat-up ghetto rope anymore). The grille had to be removed, however, as it won't stay in place and now there's only one of four screws holding it in place.

I do appreciate all the support and stories. I think we all feel for each other (I know I do) with accidents and incidents involving us and our friends. Sadly, my favorite cop incident was one that rear ended me (in this very V) at like 1mph (stop sign). He was the most sincere and down-to-earth police officer I've ever met (off-duty, maybe the "cop hat" wasn't on?) and I ended up meeting his boss and both were very nice people.

I am hopeful to get two more quotes this week/weekend and post them here. Thanks again for all the support and reading/replying!

[StunGunna]

Hopefully u will be squared away and rollin by the time we get on to the Spring CRV Fling in early 2009. :)

Dont forget your ideas mean a lot, so post up some fun ideas about what you would like to see at the CRV meet and we can discuss em.

All the best with the repairs. Keep your head up.
Peace

[Black Pearl]

Wow, I would have never guessed from your pictures that you would have that much damage. There is something to be said for the warranty and knowing the repair is right, but whoa baby, it appears that your giving an incentive package to your dealer!

Good Luck on the repair.

[fillsteak]

I have found time to get a few more quotes. For those interested, the first dealer wasn't much of a "stealer" with the price:

Honda Dealer (Tysons): $2200 (total)
Honda Dealer (Gaithersburg): $1400 (minimum)
Collision Center (Springfield): $1900 (total)

The $1400 is untrusted and I really did not like their service. This was Chriswell Honda off of 270 (for those of you in the area). I heard great things about them, and maybe buying a car is a much better experience than repair, but I don't know. The $1400 estimate was given to me as a "minimum estimate." Because, you know, "Once we get under the hood and take the front bumper off, there could be lots of damage underneath." Duh. The crazy thing is that that guy didn't even want to look under the hood. I kept asking why he didn't want to look under the hood and he said it wouldn't help because they need to take the bumper off. What a scam. The bare minimum doesn't help me... at least give me a ballpark. When I tried to get a max figure or what this COULD cost, he kept saying it could be a lot more. Sheesh. The nice thing from him, though, was that for $500 (minimum, again) he could just hammer out the bend. Useless for me, but a nice option.

The estimate (car inspection) from Gaithersburg, took about 5 minutes. Tysons, in comparison, took about 20 minutes. Springfield took about 15 minutes (though they also looked during a recent oil change and they originally fixed my latch right after the accident).

The collision center is what I will most likely go with since they will use all Honda parts and will warranty for life their work and the installed parts. They also claim I can drop the price by a few hundred more if I chose to go with aftermarket parts. Having been in too many head-on and front-end collisions, I choose the safety of the original steel. This, of course, probably will open debates about certain aftermarket brands being better, etc, etc.

All three places claim to need at least 5 days to do this. Arg. Now to find time AND a spare car...

I'm hoping to do this in Jan or Feb and get it done before the next CRV meetup. Speaking of which, anyone know any details? Location? Timeframe?

[Joshr1]

Check out Northwest Honda in Reisterstown. They have the best service in Maryland. My father works there and I would trust my V with no other dealership.

Actually, try Mudget's Auto Body as well, they're very respectable.

[Radar24]

They also claim I can drop the price by a few hundred more if I chose to go with aftermarket parts. Having been in too many head-on and front-end collisions, I choose the safety of the original steel. This, of course, probably will open debates about certain aftermarket brands being better, etc, etc.
Stick with OEM for everything. The couple of hunder dollars saved is not worth it.

My daughter had aftermarket bumper covers put on and the insurance company ended up replacing them. They came out with bulges that did not fit the profilre of the '06 Corolla and the fit was terrible! My wife had the same cover replaced by the same dealer and the OEM cover fit our '04 Corolla near perfectly the first time.

You cannot beat OEM!

-RG

[fillsteak]

Long stories aside, I decided to get my baby fixed. Done too much for me to let it sit damaged. I also desire her to last a good many years more!

[Serj22]

Long stories aside, I decided to get my baby fixed. Done too much for me to let it sit damaged. I also desire her to last a good many years more!

Hooray!!!!

[GTCB-chris]

look, a nice field to tear up :cool: (if you have AWD )

[Serj22]

Unless it's a field of dreams...

then you know what to do...

[GTCB-chris]

smoke crack?

[fillsteak]

Actually, I took this photo outside my work. The field is an empty grassy field adjacent to the parking lot at work. While not being constantly used, the local police like to use that grassy area as one of their training grounds for their K-9 units. Kind of freaky sometimes to leave work and have a whole bunch of marked cars, police, and dogs running around the work parking lot. Ahhh... reminds me of high school...

[Serj22]

smoke crack?

No, you have to build it and then they will come... silly Chris...

[electric V]

Kind of freaky sometimes to leave work and have a whole bunch of marked cars, police, and dogs running around the work parking lot. Ahhh... reminds me of high school...

Exactly, except we had drug dogs. Fillsteak must build an autocross course:D Yes and by some magic I will appear there.

Maybe you should put a brushguard on the fron of it. allthough I am not too sure how the frame will hold up under a crash.

[Radar24]

Exactly... Fillsteak must build an autocross course :cool: Yes and by some magic I will appear there.
Just remember to set the tires at 40PSI+. :rolleyes: According to some that being the ideal. :D Even on dirt! :eek:

Rg

[Serj22]

Just remember to set the tires at 40PSI+. :rolleyes: According to some that being the ideal. :D Even on dirt! :eek:

Rg

Ah.... thread references.... hehehe.:D

[GTCB-chris]

Just remember to set the tires at 40PSI+. :rolleyes: According to some that being the ideal. :D Even on dirt! :eek:

Rg
:eek: OMG im going to air up my tires to 45 psi right now!!!!!!11!!111!!!one!!1!

[Radar24]

It was a tread over here or there somewhere. By this or that forum.
It wasso! No it was not! Yes it was!...

-Rg

[electric V]

Are you refering to me because I said that the PSI in my tires was at 40 :rolleyes:

[Serj22]

Are you refering to me because I said that the PSI in my tires was at 40 :rolleyes:

No, about a guy who yells at us and tells us to drive in sand because our tires are set at a safe level.

[harold]

No Radar you would probably have to go down to the presures you run, maybe couple pounds more for grass!!!:D I actually dropped mine down too 36 lbs. this week. We'll see how that does. Hal

[Radar24]

Are you refering to me because I said that the PSI in my tires was at 40 :rolleyes:
NO, I am just being a general wise a_s.

I don't discuss absolute tire pressures any more. I added it the the no-no list ===> Religion, Politics, Oil and TP ==== are not to be discussed.

From now on it is see your placard on the door jamb or where ever it is on that particular vehicle :(.

-Rg

[electric V]

:(awww I though I was popular:D

[Serj22]

I don't discuss absolute tire pressures any more. I added it the the no-no list ===> Religion, Politics, Oil and TP ==== are not to be discussed.



haha. Those are the same things that will ruin a relationship, but usually as long as you don't discuss Tire pressure, you may do ok with the others.:D:D