Curious Rack Noise

[jpkant]

So a couple weeks ago I installed a new OEM rack on the v. (see my post about it for details...) The rack is great and I was relieved that there was no noticeable noise on the road. That is until the other day....
Here in New England winter is fast approaching and the other morning the car was covered in frost. Alot of frost. When I got on the highway the rack was HOWLING! I wondered if something had come loose! Nope. Coming home from work later that day, no noise. The same thing has happened each morning there is a heavy frost on the car. It must change the aerodynamics enough to cause the rack to make the noise!:rolleyes:

[michigan_driver]

You could always install a fairing as it would decrease the wind noise;

http://www.bikerackshops.com/images/car_roof_bike_racks/TU871large.jpg

[Radar24]

My guess is due to the low temperature the differential contraction of the different materials is causing the howling by changing gaps between materials. Or the frost is covering part or an entire gap turning it into a flute :D

Try using tape or 3M strip caulk as an aid in debugging and pinpointing what the source of the noise is. Or changing the tone :D by tuning it to an acceptable note.
-RG

[StunGunna]

PLEASE, follow the advice of the member that sent the pic of the fairing. Get one. I have one that I ordered with my Yakima rack and trust me, I have only the slightest very light melodic whistle at even 85+ MPH. The reason for the noise is this: The way the rack is designed to sit a few inches off the roof makes passing air from both top and bottom of the rack meet in the rear/middle section of the rack and basically vibrate against each other, making the rack itself wobble and the air itself howl with the kinetic friction.

The fairing takes the air and scoops it over and away from the rack so that there is no windflow interruption or vibration/noise distortion. I will swear by this product any day. I do not know if OEM racks can take a fairing without an attachment piece that you may need to install, but if you can really afford it (or save the money) go ahead and purchase the entire Rack/Fairing kit from either Yakima or Thule and you will be happy you did. Thule is a little pricier (ok a lot) for the same quality of stuff, but its your choice. :)

Hope this helps, your car deserves the best. Dont b in a rush... even if u do one mod per season (Fall, Winter Etc.) u can kit up ur car excellently in 2 to 3 years. Please see pics of my Vee "Snowfox" in the Gallery/Images section. U will see the whole rack/faring set up. It is still a work in progress, there are mUCH better rides on this forum, but it addresses your immediate concern, I beleive.

Happy motoring and Many blessings this holiday season. Peace!

[Radar24]

PLEASE, follow the advice of the member that sent the pic of the fairing. Get one. I have one that I ordered with my Yakima rack and trust me, I have only the slightest very light melodic whistle at even 85+ MPH. The reason for the noise is this: The way the rack is designed to sit a few inches off the roof makes passing air from both top and bottom of the rack meet in the rear/middle section of the rack and basically vibrate against each other, making the rack itself wobble and the air itself howl with the kinetic friction.

I can understand how the fairing might work.

How does the frost cause the vibrations you are talking about and then without frost no howling? Seems like the fairing is just masking (a band-aid) but not eliminating or fixing the problem based on the above obsevation.

-RG

[michigan_driver]

I can understand how the fairing might work.

How does the frost cause the vibrations you are talking about and then without frost no howling? Seems like the fairing is just masking (a band-aid) but not eliminating or fixing the problem based on the above obsevation.

-RG

One might think the heavier denser air is not as easily split by the cross rails? Band-aid; that is what a fairing is used for, decrease noise on racks...

[Radar24]

I do not have a rack on our CR-V so I need no fairing. I put up with the noise while one is installed on my pickup. I need not have to find the cause so I can eliminate the howl. I rarely use racks so they are removable. No rack, no noise Period. End of story. But I understand that is not practical for a skier. I used to Ski.

There are instances of howling without the rack! Should they put on a fairing too?

I normally try to fix by finding the cause and only use a Band-Aid as a last resort if I cannot find the cause.

The frost issue is not entirely consistent with the splitting of the air stream. If denser air is not as easily split thereby precipitating the howl, then would it not howl when it is cold with or without the frost? Eh? I understood it only howls with the frost! Air CAN be cold and dense without frost! In the next few days the cold air is denser theory can be tested. It is getting cold in New England! This AM it was 17F in southern NH. Possibly single digits up north in God's country!

Perhaps it has more to do with the relative humidity or dew point. If that is the case it should howl when it rains too. So now the fairing is a year round accessory. Not just when there is frost.

Might it not be more energy efficient to try stopping whatever the frost does if it is possible? Instead of having this huge MPG reducing fairing installed year round? It should do a number on the aerodynamics that Honda surely put a lot of effort into designing for max MPG!

At higher speeds does the fairing not cause lift that reduces traction? The reverse of a rear wing sort of.

You guys go ahead and put your Thule or Yakima status symbol fairing on. It is just fine by me. I’m not paying your gas bill. :)

-RG

[Radar24]

Check this site out on frost noise. He is not sure it is the rack at all:

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?p=361961

-RG

[jpkant]

Thanks for all the advice! I guess I tend to believe the air density theory as the cause. Since the noise only appears under certain conditions, and is not so loud that the radio can't cover it, I am inclined to do nothing. Ride on! JPKANT

[Radar24]

So is it howling in cold temps too without frost?

-RF

[jpkant]

Not really, only when cold and frosty...
JPKANT

[Radar24]

Then it must be the frost or how close to the dew point it is.

If it does not do it in the rain then that leaves the frost as the culprit and not the 'heavy' air in the morning!

Just the frost right? This is what TractorBoy suggested:

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?p=361961 (http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?p=361961)

Although he suggested it might be frost on the sunroof!

In which case it would do it without the rack with frost???

-RG

[StunGunna]

Glad to see people responding to the question asked about the rack noise. I am also amused at members that think that thier opinion and experience is universal to everyone.

Fairings are not band aids. If you would like to put up with the noise, please go ahead. I agree with the writer that talked about the density of cold air, but YES it does also have to do with the moisture/humidity as well. It creates more pressure and contractions on the rack.... but yknow... what the heck.... do whatever dude, it's YOUR ride.

Also, the Yakima set up I have is great for my MPG. The aerodynamics are wonderful and the whole thing is designed to reduce drag. A fairing even protects your rack-borne belongings by reducing the force of air that could possibly dislodge them in transit.
Not everyone wants a rack on thier car, and if you dont want one on yours, you needn't refer to them as status symbols... I bet you would have a bunch of status symbols if you could. Maybe its because you already do!

In most mods on a simple suv like the CRV, form and function need to meet somewhere in harmony. Anyone just doing mods for show in this day & age - has got to be silly. In any case, the fairing works awesome.... I am up writing this after a 3 hour trip back from Pennsylvania where it was snowing in 20 degree weather. I did between 75 - 90 MPH in the snow, sleet and frost and heard NOTHING from my rack.
Not a peep.

But its just for show I guess... we are trying very hard to impress ourselves!

[Radar24]

StunGunna,
A lot on this site is written in humor. :) That is why the smiley faces!
Unfortunately not everyone has the same sense of humor or the smiley faces turned on. That is OK, everyone is different.

Not everything on this site is based on facts or sound scientific principles. Even by those with many years of professional experience.

Often statements are made on a sample of one like “yeah, this ‘contraption in general’ is great. My MPG went up 2 MPG and I like the noise of…you should get one!” For any of this above to mean anything more details need to be given; like was the air pressure the same…the same gas and not formulated versus non formulated used during the comparison. Often more than one change is made simultaneously. Not always on purpose. If so it is not clear what was the cause of the increase in MPG with more than one variable. I think you understand; I do not need to beat this to death. You seem to be open minded but then I have not much to go by …

In my statement cut and pasted:
“You guys go ahead and put your Thule or Yakima status symbol fairing on. It is just fine by me. I’m not paying your gas bill. :) “
Notice the smiley face? Some of the younger (and any age) crowd might find the fairing ‘Hot’, ‘Macho’, ‘Neet’… whatever. Perhaps it is a tweaker spending his grocery money on the fairing because it looks cool (Oh No! Now the tweakers are... :)). I have no idea how old any single reader is. And yes, I do have a status symbol. Not a very good one but my newly acquired '08 CR-V could be considered a status symbol in some circles. If you are with me so far then in some circles us CR-V OCrs just about all have a status symbol. Their pride and joy. Just as a Range Rover would be seen as a status symbol by us CR-Vers, someone with some crappy unreliable small pre- cold war SUV in Russia like a Volga (I just made the name up, don't send me any messages) might see our CR-Vs as a status symbol. With or without the fairing.

So there is no need to get upset or irritated about the term ‘status symbol’. It is all a matter of reference. Let’s not take it offensively after all if anyone is on this site with a late model CR-V, in some circles we have at least one status symbol. Not everyone can afford one and I’m not sure but I think that is the definition.

Definition of ‘status symbol’:
Something, such as a possession or an activity, by which one's social or economic prestige is measured.

OK. The fairing, if either a Yakima or Thule increased gas mileage don’t you think Honda and a lot of others would have one as original equipment? I am going to go out on a limb since I do not have one to do a scientifically based study; I’m guessing they lower the MPG by 1-2 MPG. Maybe more, maybe less, I can’t tell. Unless you have a huge load in which case it might actually be better off with a fairing than without. I have a hard time believing a few skis are that much different aerodynamic wise with a fairing. It is possible; remember I am going on a limb. And a thin one at that. :) An amusing Ford versus Chevy type loyalty often goes along. I like Yakima; more practical. I made my own 6062 Aluminum HD tubing cross pieces. Fancy ones out of laminated maple too so my canoe did not shift. Won't rust like the Thule's steel and Yakima round steel cross piece either.

Your statement:
“But its just for show I guess... we are trying very hard to impress ourselves!”
There is some truth to this statement. I would hope it is more of a sharing of knowledge. Often a second point of view is helpful as is step bu step debugging and not jumping to conclusions when more than one possible outcome exist. Since I am disabled, have the time and lots of years as an anal amateur I find it satisfying trying to help out. If one does not agree or does not buy my suggestion, it is OK. Opinions are like a__ holes, everybody has one. Including me and you.

What I take exception to is when some one makes a statement like “0W30 is heavier than 5W30 since 0W is a 0 winter weight and has zero weight or viscosity. Nonsense! The 0W, 5W, 10... are on a relative well defined scale and 5W is absolutely positively heavier than 0W at the same 0 F Temp. 0W oil does have a viscosity and it is not 0 viscosity! Blanked wrong statements like that backed up in the literature I usually try to point out. If the writer does not believe me that is fine; what is not fine is misleading other readers!
By the same token should I make a wrong statement based on science and not opinions, I would hope someone would correct me.
If I disagree with the correction, I am after all as well as anyone else entitled to an opinion. Be it based on facts or preference.

RG

[electric V]

I was just wondering everyone is talking about the OEM roof racks right. But what models of the CRV are they on. I have the factory roof fack on my 98 and I have never ever heard any noise from it. I might just be lucky or maybe I am just used to the noise (if any) that I don't hear it.

The CRV really has a crappy wierght limit too. 75 lbs is just rediculous but it gets its strength fom the unibody. The cost for a cheaper car I guess.

Roof rack is on my V for show. I never use it it just looks nice up there I don't like the V without them except for the 3rd Gen V. Everything that I have done to my V I have done for its looks not because it was functional. Sorry in advance I have no pics on here yet so please noone bug me about it:). I took the pics but I can't figure out how to format them to get them onto the site because I saved them in a word file. If anyone can tell me how to upload pics I would be greatly appriciated.

[StunGunna]

Pity we hijacked the darn thread about the racks and the guy who asked is done and moved on! LOL

Radar thanks for not getting your boxers in a bunch the way I did. I am a bit defensive because I run into posers so often Im sick of it. Anyway, I appreciate your response and I did mean well and certainly do have a sense of humor... it got locked in the trunk that day. :o

Anyways, electric V... I ragged on u before about no pictures so let me redeem myself. Most pics are saved as JPEG files on your computer. So after the name of the file it should read (.JPG). Some of them may say .GIF and that is ok too. Please dont save them in MS Word, so if u have the original photo files use those and follow these steps if you will:

Go to http://www.photobucket.com and sign up with a username and password that u can easily remember. Write it down if you have to... dont worry its free and ur not trying to build an investment account here anyway.

When u have doen that click on 'make an album' or 'upload photos' and then when it offers you options choose 'browse' and then click on the drive on your computer (usually the C drive or 'my pictures' where the files are and double-click the files you would like to upload. When you have completed this, you are ready to include them in your posts. This is how: Beside each pic that you upload, there will be a series of codes, it looks like a string of gibberish and it will tell you what they are for, emailing, websites, forum posts etc.

When u write comments in the CRVOC forums and want to include these pics, log into your photobucket account, highlight and copy (or right-click and copy) the string of code and then go to your comments, hit a double space to move away from the last word you typed and then 'paste' the string of code into the box. Keep writin if you have to or want to. Then POST your comments as you usually do, or hit 'preview your post' as we are allowed to do in our forums. You should see your photos show up that way.

I hope this helps. Write back or send me a PM if this does not help and I will guide u through it. I apologise for hijacking the thread to help electric out but I am sure he would love to get his ride on the boards.

Best wishes for a great holiday folks, lets keep the 'FunVee' spirit and lifestyle going. Have a wonderful day and again, thanks for the comments and great attitude... mental and physical challenges make us stronger and smarter people, so I love any opportunity to learn, educate or advance. :)