Brake Dust - What Works, and What Does Not [Archive]

sportscarguy1

01-06-2009, 10:09 AM

I've tried various products out there and am curious if anyone has a good product that they use to take the brake dust off without burning the clearcoat off the aluminum rims.

I noticed Honda no longer sells Hondabrite for degreasing. That was a great product but awfully expensive. I have not found anything as good. Gunk leaves a horrible toxic smell that I do not like.

Suggestions welcome thanks.

Radar24

01-06-2009, 10:45 AM

Hondabright is not discontinued:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Hondabrite__08732-0020B.aspx?LineItemId=8f347bae-3583-4bc9-bbad-d48f159c92d3

I would install ceramic pads like Akebono's

Very low dusting pads, no corrosive black brake dust.
Why not Nip it at the Bud!

http://www.akebonobrakes.com/

(Edited link 07Jan09)

I have bought them and they are very good quality.
I have no long term experience. Indications are they will last 60k miles or more where OEM pads only lasted ~30k miles.
Just clean wheels for sure.

-RG

sportscarguy1

01-06-2009, 12:26 PM

electric V

01-07-2009, 02:22 AM

Radar24

01-07-2009, 07:55 AM

I appreciate the lead on Hondabrite. I'll say goodbye to my dealer on that one and hello to another.

As far as pads, aside from the dust, I got 75k out of the originals with servicing at 30k intervals. I'm at 145k now on my second set and have at least another 10k to go. I may consider ceramics down the road.

Thanks for your info.
Ken
75k on OEM organic semi-metallic pads, WOW!
I do not know but I doubt my wive would get more than 40k or about half as much as you do. She has a lead foot! It does after all depend on the type off and how you drive.

If I let them go to 10% wear left, surely she will let it go metal to metal. So I replace pads at the 25-33% wear left. It is much cheaper than new rotors! :confused:

I gave you the wrong link to Akebono previously. Here is the right one:
http://www.akebonobrakes.com/ (http://www.akebonobrakes.com/)

I like Akebono because it is a Japanese Company that makes some of their product in the US. They powder coat the pad backing, something you rarely see. Most just spray paint after the lining is bonded to the backing. If you read the company history on the site you might come away with the same impression.

The quality and fit on Chevy, Toyota and Honda has been excellent and looks good so far. I do not have the Toyota anymore so I have no idea how well it is doing. On the other two the mileage is way too low to date...

Radar24

01-07-2009, 08:23 AM

hey does anyone have the pics of the brake dust shields on their V. I recently got some nice MOMO ITIALY rims and there is plenty of brake dust on the front wheels. I am content just cleaning the wheels. and I am only interested in the brake pads for my V if they are not too ugly. I really only buy things for my V because of how they look on the V and not How well they function but if they do both than they are worth buying in my book.
Electric V,
The KleenWheels site used to have more pictures. I do not think you would like then at all any way. They will cover all the nice expensive parts you paid good money for. They will contain the black brake dust of most OEM and after market organic, metallic and semi-metallic pads to the break side. Keeping the outer visible part of shield and the wheel very clean. And the rotors dry so there is much less rotor and brake rust in cars that sit outdoors a lot!

http://www.kleenwheels.com/about_kleenwheels.htm (http://www.kleenwheels.com/about_kleenwheels.htm)

If they made them for the '08 OEM steel wheels I would buy them.

My point with the ceramic pads is that they nip the dust problem in the bud. Easily less than 10% of the dust. And it is not black, it seems to be a lighter color. If you can find any.

-RG

electric V

01-07-2009, 11:05 AM

radar,

i wash off my brake rotars when i wash my car to keep them looking clean and to remove the brake dust build up inside the rotor and caliper. can you still do that effectivly with the shields on?

you were right once again Radar. those brake dust shields are not my style.

sleeksilver

01-09-2009, 09:39 AM

What do you mean removing brake dust?

I've never had a problem with a rag and a bucket... :rolleyes:

Radar24

01-09-2009, 07:09 PM

Not everyone washes or dusts their wheels regularly as they might have better things to do. The inboard face is impossible to clean in any event. Brake dust will trash those surfaces unless you remove the wheels to clean them. After a season or two it becomes a real mess come rotation time or if you get a flat in your dress clothing! Then there is the corrosion is creates...

Be my guest! :D

-RG

Different lining technologies create more and others less dust. Currently the Ceramic pads is one type that creates very little dust as far as I know.

The OEM pads for the '07 and up are Semi-Metallic. That was what my dealers parts counter guy told me. They were horrible dust wise on my V in any case. :( Visible within 100 miles on the gray steel wheels. Must be even worse on alloys especially polished aluminum.

Carbuff2

01-10-2009, 06:37 PM

Ceramic pads are DEFINITELY the way to go if you hate black brake dust!

(I do)

Radar24

01-10-2009, 08:42 PM

Ceramic pads are DEFINITELY the way to go if you hate black brake dust!

(I do)

I do too!. So I nipped the problem in the bud. All it cost was some $60 odd singles. I would have gladly paid that or more if Honda used them OEM as they probably do on the MDX.

I still have the rears to do. I ran out of weather. The rears do not generate as much anyhow; I'll get to them in the spring to keep every thing balanced.

-RG

NorahCRV

01-10-2009, 10:24 PM

SOLD . . . but will changing to ceramic pads affect my Honda warrantees (both 36K & HondaCare to 120K)?? :confused:

Radar24

01-10-2009, 11:14 PM

SOLD . . . but will changing to ceramic pads affect my Honda warrantees (both 36K & HondaCare to 120K)??
I do not think pads are warranted as they are wearable items. Rotors may not be either past 36K miles.

You will have to check your 120k mile policy. I think most rotors should last nearly that long even with city driving. With highway driving more than 120k depending on how you drive.

I have no real idea but I would think some techs might not even notice. Maybe they would. Just remember that the old pads at 60k will be really dirty and the backing corroded so how can you tell?

A gray area might occur if the calipers fail and they blame it on the ceramic pads. A shift the blame type of thing.

The problem with waiting until the 3/36k warranty is no longer in effect is a lot of damage has already occurred in the form of corrosion and trashing of the wheels and brake area with brake dust. That is as I see it so I'm taking my chances that the warranty will not be needed. After all you would think Honda would be able to get the brakes correct at the assembly line? I think they will as the liability of not doing so is incredible. And the chances of having part problems in the brakes...come on! Most brake problems do not show up until 5-7 years when the fluid is not changed or when pads are improperly installed! Or when pads are worn metal to metal. All three cases that are not covered by warranty.

Right? I never read it myself… :confused:

-RG

Issflareman24

02-02-2009, 03:22 PM

Radar24

02-02-2009, 04:59 PM

My '02s rotors warped at about the 80k mark, and were not under warranty. A rather unpleasant expense thats for sure! Just don't make the same mistake i did and change your brakes while they still have a little padding on them....
It almost sound like you or the individual that informed you led you to believe that warped rotors are a consequence of wearing the pads to far. Not so. If worn too far the consequence is that the metal backing of the pad will rub on the rotors damaging the rotor beyond repair by turning. Caught early it is possible if the rotors are fairly new to turn then and reface the rotor. At this point of severe pad wear if the rotors are warped or not it does not matter. Usually metal to metal wear trashes the rotor beyond repair unless caught early.

You can have warped rotors irrespective of how worn the pad linings are. The two conditions are independent.

The lining is between the pad backing and the rotor. The lining is the part that normally wears as you use the brake. It is attached to the backing. Once the lining is used up in the normal process of braking, then you go into the metal to metal condition. It is unsafe as you do not have 100% of the stopping power. In extreme cases severe heat generated in metal to metal braking might cause a fire??? I have never seen it but once again in severe cases...I suppose anything is possible.

-Rg

Issflareman24

02-02-2009, 05:20 PM

Poor choice of words on my part, and thank you for clarifying because that is exactly what happened. It was the metal to metal contact for an extended period of time that resulted in the warped rotors. Needless to say it is a lesson that only needs to be learned once!

Serj22

02-03-2009, 01:07 AM

It could be possible. They can get red hot in severe braking. You ever watch a race and see the car's rotors turn bright red when they brake for a turn? I'm sure metal on metal would ignite something over time.

Radar24

02-03-2009, 12:06 PM

This is true but how many of us drive their formula one daily at near 200 MPH.; metal to metal.

Then again I'm sure illegal had one he used to win races with. :D

OK, now it is my turn. If you can't take it you should not dish it out.
So ready I am.

-Rg

Serj22

02-11-2009, 08:33 PM

I have the ceramic performance pads on both sets on my 02. The dust is definitly at a minimum. I've seen people with chrome rims that become pure black before they wash them, and I'm not into dirty wheels. However, it doesn't solve the dirt problem that occurs on the inner lip of the wheel, and between the spokes.

electric V

02-11-2009, 09:44 PM

Some times the Brake dust looks okay though. Like after a week or so the brake dust makes my rims look gunmetal in color instead of silver. So it really isn't that cool unless you are looking at it from across a parking lot and the rear wheels never have any dust on them. Why is that what is different about drum brakes?

Serj22

02-11-2009, 11:09 PM

Mine has discs in the back.
The oly difference is drum brakes belong on trucks and are a pain in the ass to replace.:D

Radar24

02-12-2009, 01:19 AM

Drum brakes retain most of the dust within the drum. Only when the drum is removed does all the dust become evident. If it does leak out it does so toward the center of the vehicle probably coating the under carriage and the inboard side of the wheel.

There is also the fact that the rear brakes do only about 25% of the braking. So it stands to reason about 25% of the dust would be generated assuming both front and rear brakes are the same type.

-Rg

Serj22

02-12-2009, 01:59 PM

The rear brakes on the Cr-v are also a lot smaller due to the fact that they work less, and also brake into less power, like Radar mentioned. So that's why there's a lot less brake dust if you have a full set of disc brakes. On a rear wheel drive, there would be less in the front and more in the back.

Radar24

02-12-2009, 04:40 PM

... So that's why there's a lot less brake dust if you have a full set of disc brakes. On a rear wheel drive, there would be less in the front and more in the back.
I do not think you really meant to say that. That is not quite right. It does not have so much to do where the drive comes from. It has more to do with the dynamics of braking. When you apply the brakes the front squats and the rear goes up in the air. So it stands to reason that the front brakes can be applied harder while if the rear is applied equally it will lock up!

The proportioning valve is one way to get around the problem The other is by changing the diameter of the cylinders or disk piston (s). There are probably other trick too. Toyota used to have an interesting one...

-Rg

Serj22

02-12-2009, 05:45 PM

Right, that's what I meant. I'm sorry. Yeah, Electric, the drive doesn't actually matter, but there is a tendency. I've owned Rear wheel drives where brake dust accumulates a lot on the rear, and very little on the front. I hear the worst brake dust collecting cars are Bimmers, I could be wrong.

Radar24

02-12-2009, 09:43 PM

Disk brakes do not collect as much dust since the rotor is fairly open in areas (caliper and the wide open outboard side of the rotor) with the pads 'wiping' the dust of the rotor. It ends up all over the wheel well and wheels. BTW most brake dust is corrosive! Depends on the composition of the pads. Most organic, metallic and semi-metallic are as far as I know. Ever look at the inboard side of alloy wheels? Aluminum becomes a donor or sacrificial metal. Not good!

In contrast the rear drum is like a bowl or saucer with a narrow slit between the drum and the backing plate. Possibly in an attempt to keep it dry. With the shoes 'wiping' any dust within the drum and not out.

That is why the drums collects more dust. It is not a function of doing less braking. The front will always wear more and do most of the braking. Nearly 75%.

Unless you drive in reverse! :D
Is that what you do Serj? Spin around 180 to chase the bad guys?
Are you a stunt driver? :)

And yes, I have noticed a lot of Bimmers with super dirty front wheels. You would think with all that money they charge that the pads would be low dusting. Same with GM trucks and SUVs. Fed up I went with ceramics on my S-10 and Xtreme. And on my V at about 250 miles I had enough of the dust too from the OEM semi-metallic pads. I have better things to do other than to clean the wheels.

-Rg

Serj22

02-12-2009, 09:55 PM

The ceramic pads work well, and yes, I do know how to do single lane 180's, but it is never EVER used. There is never a proper application to do it, but we must still do it on annual driving tests along with physicals (to make extra bonuses). Anyway, if brake dust is corrosive, then i'm glad I clean it off often. The ceramics still make dust, but definitly not as much as the semi-metallic pads.

And I only do my maneuvers in 2001 - 2006 Rear wheel crown vics. I'd have no idea what to do with a front wheel drive in a harsh situation.

fdresq4

02-24-2009, 03:33 PM

[QUOTE=sportscarguy1;33553]I've tried various products out there and am curious if anyone has a good product that they use to take the brake dust off without burning the clearcoat off the aluminum rims.

I noticed Honda no longer sells Hondabrite for degreasing. That was a great product but awfully expensive. I have not found anything as good. Gunk leaves a horrible toxic smell that I do not like.

Suggestions welcome thanks.[/QUOTsports,

Check your PM's

Steve

electric V

02-24-2009, 07:03 PM

Unless you drive in reverse! :D

-Rg

I do a lot of reverse driving

Serj22

02-24-2009, 08:21 PM

I do a lot of reverse driving

Tell me if the odometer starts rolling back the miles.

electric V

02-24-2009, 11:03 PM

Tell me if the odometer starts rolling back the miles.

That doesn't even work in the movies. Remember what happened to that poor ferari in Ferris Buler's day off:rolleyes:

Its mostly parallel parking and reverse parking so it would be a little unnoticeable but I do it every day so if it does roll back I'll tell you:D

My friends Datsun 240 Z only has 5 spaces in the odo it migt work on that car:D

MarkyMark

02-25-2009, 07:53 AM

[QUOTE=Radar24;33781]Not everyone washes or dusts their wheels regularly as they might have better things to do. The inboard face is impossible to clean in any event. Brake dust will trash those surfaces unless you remove the wheels to clean them. After a season or two it becomes a real mess come rotation time or if you get a flat in your dress clothing! Then there is the corrosion is creates...[QUOTE]

I just put a new set of wheels and tires on the car every 2 years :D Actually, that's not true. I've owned the Fit for 2 years and 4 months and it's on it's 4th wheel and tire combo.

Ceramic pads are on my list of things to do this spring. I figure while I'm doing that, I'll install some slotted rotors and paint the calipers satin black. Now that I think about it, while I have the wheels, rotors, and calipers off the car, I might as well install some H&R springs. Just trying to be efficient. ;)