Buying 98 CRV - Timing belt, what would you do?

I'm thinking of buying the sister-in-law's 98 CR-V which is mint but has 130K on it. At that much mileage it likely needs a timing belt change. She's asking 1100$ and the Honda dealer charges 850$ parts/labor for the procedure.

So, should I just drive it until it dies or have the timing belt changed? She has a towing package on it but has never towed anything. What are the odds that timing belt will drive another 100K?

That timing belt will likely snap in another 15k. If you get that timing belt changed and keep up with the valve adjustments, you can expect that car to go at least 300,000 miles. As for the price with the belt change - it's excellent. 98 V's are still worth somewhere in the 4 - 5,000 dollar range, and in mint condition sometimes more.

Also the maintenance is not just the timing belt. There will be a few other things that need to be done for it's 110,000 miles interlude. To just buy it and then drive it till it dies would be a terrible waste of a car, because it won't last long and once that belt breaks, the whole engine will be pretty much destroyed.

for me..
just for a peace of mind, id changed it right away!!
do the regular maintenance adjustments too!
although im using a high mileage V, w/c i didnt replaced the
belt yet, but the previous owner did after it hit 140K, all
dealership maintained,coz he doesnt know anything bout it..

anyway im in the process of upgrading my engine to a vtec head
thats why im just using it regular driving not beating it! :rolleyes:

i wouldnt wait for it to breakdown coz itll cost you more!
believe me, ive known couple of people who did that..

jm2c...

Thanks guys I really appreciate your advice. It's a no-brainer, I'm having it changed :)

i found this timing belt kits yesterday, my car is hittin 100k and will need to change the timming belt and water pump too

http://www.timingbeltkit.com/servlet/the-561/timing-belt%2C-crv-timing/Detail

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-98-99-00-01-CRV-TIMING-BELT-KIT-GENUINE-HONDA-PUMP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZQ7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q 3a1Q7c294Q3a30QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14Q2el1262QQ hashZitem53db498eb5QQitemZ360161316533QQptZMotorsQ 5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

the prices are similar, but i will go for the oem on ebay.

i hope this info help you:)

....and water pump too....



2577

.........

Most Honda engines are interference type. What that means is that if the belt breaks the pistons can hit an open valve. The results are drastic to catastrophic. Even if fixed after a huge expense the engines reportedly are never the same again. Possibly due to bent components not replaced or poor quality rebuilding. Such as the bent crank...??? not diagnosed or replaced.

If it is truly not rusting out it is worth having the timing belt replaced. But if it has hidden corrosion it could potentially be a candidate for just driving it.

Where has the vehicle been driven most of the time? With a user name of Brooklyn I am guessing it is in NYC??? Thus if it has been driven in the winter I would be very careful not to end up with a body that will not last as long as the engine.

-Rg

That is the problem. A $600 to $800 timing belt job estimate can turn into a $1200 repair if the water pump. oil pump seals or any other seals need replacement.

I definitely agree that the water pump should be changed while you are doing the timing belt. Along with fixing all leaks not obvious until taken apart. For a DIY it is a no brainer but if you are paying to have the work done the decision is more difficult. I have been there with my Dad's low mileage Camry. I know the feeling :(.

-Rg

get it changed and you'll be thankful later.
should also change the water pump, thermostat, rad hoses while you're at it.

i had my sienna van done 2 months ago. cost me C$800 from my friend's shop.
i had the rad hoses changed, water pump, timing belt and thermostat changed also. the mileage was around 120,000 kms. it's supposed to last up to 150,000 kms. but i didnt want to take the chance. better to be safe than sorry.

Excellent input. I'll ask the Honda dealer if it includes the water pump and valve adjustments if needed. The vehicle is mint without a spec of rust on it. It has always been city driven though so I guess I should look for minor wear and tear like breaks and transmission probs.

I also read on here that a differential oil change is recommended but only with Honda type oil. Is that the case or can I get this done at a general repair shop to save money? What about other oils like transmission, transfer case etc? What mileage should this have been serviced at?

Thanks again you're a great bunch on this forum!

You need to draw the line somewhere. Start out with the timing belt and everything associated with doing the timing belt.

This kit ChewMex found looks very complete with the exception of the radiator hoses.

http://www.timingbeltkit.com/servlet/the-561/timing-belt%2C-crv-timing/Detail (http://www.timingbeltkit.com/servlet/the-561/timing-belt%2C-crv-timing/Detail)

You should be aware that often there are quite a few other hoses. Some of them much smaller which seem to fail first in my experience. So the question is which hoses to change in the entire cooling system. Such as heater hoses (under the hood + in the passenger compartment), by-pass (on some vehicles), throttle body heater hoses (on some vehicles), coolant overflow to tank hoses etc.

How many do you replace and which ones. It seems that the quality of hoses has increased in the last 20 years to the extent they no longer need to be replaced periodically. Not unless they obviously look mushy or have cracks. Then they should be replaced ASAP. What I am trying to say is you might wait on the radiator hoses before you start sinking a bundle into the car.

Also often on low mileage cars problems show up once driven more regularly or in more severe use. Some of these problems could be severe and very expensive so that would be another reason to draw the line somewhere and limit your expenses at this time to only timing belt related work.

You should at the same time that you do the timing belt give high priority to the following 6 items:

1) Timing belt
1a) idler wheel bearings often fail and you do not want to redo this job
1b) idler spring will probably be fine but should be cheap - Replace it!
2) Accessory belts (3?) might be original so definitely replace these - all three of them. The PS in particular should be all cracked if original. The others less so but still will have cracks too - replace them all now. This will only add $30 - $50 to the job for all three belts labor included.
3) I cannot emphasize the importance of doing the valve adjustment. Although this could wait a short while, the exhaust valves on some Hondas tend to recess into the head due to the constant pounding effect of the valves closing. The problem is that the valve clearance is decreased as it recesses. This will eventually prevent the valve from making full contact and will burn a valve soon enough! Better to adjust them so this does not happen. A burned valve will cost you $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
3a) if the valves are adjusted you will need the gasket at a minimum and the grommets (7) are optional. These are easy to change later on if they do leak. Most likely you can go a while longer without changing them. - The gasket is a must change!
4) Water pump and gasket. The kit has what might be an aftermarket pump. I would recommend using a Honda original pump as the quality might be much higher at about the same cost. Get the OE Original pump. Do not be afraid of buying original parts. With an online discount replacement OE parts are often cheaper and get shipped to your door. The thinking that OE Honda parts are more expensive is often an urban legend. Sometimes it is, often it is not. This applies to all the parts. The timing belt itself might be made of a longer lasting rubber if made by Honda! There is a new material that last 100k miles or more as opposed to the regular type lasting 60k miles. On the other hand the Honda belt might be made by the same belt manufacturer as aftermarket belts. Stick to well known brands and not brand X Chinese crap. There is good Chinese crap but to be safe avoid it just in case. :) Remember that Hondas do not last as long as they do by careless selection of parts. They may look the same but often aftermarket parts are inferior in one way or another. Sometimes they are improved if there is a weakness in the Honda parts. But not that often. For instance there are longer lasting brake pads than the semi-metallic OE pads.
5) Front crankshaft seal - I would replace it as if it starts to leak after you change the timing belt, you will have to change the belt again. The oil will damage the belt! All of them! - Replace this seal while the timing belt is replaced. - You are already there with the seal relatively easy to get at.
6) The same thing that applies to 5 applies to the camshaft seals. Replace them all. These parts are cheap and you are already there with most of the work to get at them already done.
7) Radiator hoses. Unless they have obvious signs of failing be it spongy or cracked I would wait on these. But that is just me.

The engine oil should be replaced soon not knowing when it was last changed. But does not need to be replaced right now. The same thing goes for the transmission and rear diff if you have 4WD. - I would wait on these a few weeks giving you time to recover from the timing belt related expenses.

The same thing goes for the brake fluid (as opposed to break fluid :)). The brake fluid may never have been changed and should be done every 3 years as recommended by Honda! It might prevent corrosion damage in the brake system if it is not already too late.

All of the caliper slide pins and pad contact points should be checked for cracked seals and corrosion. Also the pads should be checked for wear. - If not too far gone or worn I would wait on the brakes a while too.

Make sure the tires are legal and have no cuts or tire rot. This includes the spare.

I might have missed a few things but this should be a fairly complete list. Be advised I do not have familiarity with that generation CR-V nor have I ever worked on one. All comments are made in general for any 10 year old low mileage vehicle with a timing belt.

-Rg

I forgot this. Check the CVJ boots for leaks and wear front and rear!
Touch up the body dings and chips to keep the paint looking like new. Do not be afraid to get down to clean bare rust free metal, prime and paint with a small brush. Be careful the metal is not rusted all the way thru. Often the rubbery coating around the Weill wells might be all that is holding everything together. All the metal underneath could be completely corroded. In that case just leave it be! It will look a lot better as is and no matter how much primer you put on it will not replace the rotted area. Primer only coated areas as the rust is chased routinely look horrible! If you use Bondo and water is getting behind the patch, more often than not it will just continue rusting around the patch. Now you have Bondo and primer - a much bigger area will be involved. It will look even worst! You are better off leaving it alone and undisturbed.

Wow thanks radar24 that's some sound advice I'll follow to a tee :)

It's time....

Do the timing belt, other belts, thermostat, water pump, and seals.

Also do the rear diff. fluid change and sparkplugs....just to get started.....

You'll get a way better price if you don't go to the dealer. WAY BETTER! $1200 is crazy! $500-$700 is more like for the t. belt, seals and water pump. Look up the price on the gen. Honda parts and find out how much the dealer is trying to make off your job. You won't like it.

The $1200 was not a real price, more like an upper end a more expensive dealer or independent might charge.

On timing belts dealers have competitive price specials. Paying suggested retail it is possible that the parts are more. A lot of the time with a discount a dealer on certain parts will even be lower than aftermarket. If you are not paying suggested retail at a dealer comparing the suggested retail is meaningless. I have found this to be true personally a lot of the time on the less generic stuff. Not certain about Honda but on the common maintenance parts for Toyota the dealer price for the same quality in the non original parts is very similar. This is true on some body parts such as fenders. A you never know what you get aftermarket fender might be $100 while the discounted original with the same level of rust protection and fit as the original will only be a few dollars different.

You decide if you want to save $25 or fiddle for an hour to get the aftermarket fender to make it fit right. IMO there is no argument originals in a lot of cases is the way to go. It certainly is worth looking into and not taking the position a dealer is automatically always significantly more.

-Rg

Just an update...

After I showed the Honda dealer prints of aftermarket parts prices, he made me the following package deal for genuine Honda parts and labor:

- timing belt
- tension wheel and spring
- water pump and gasket
- cam and crank seals
- valve adjustments
- change all belts
- thermostat
- spark plugs
- differential oil
- transmission oil
- motor oil, filter and air filter
- break oil
- inspection of all hoses, CV boots etc.

Parts + Labor Total Cost: $1000

I want to thank everyone because I had no clue what I was heading into and your input made all the difference. After this maitenance my CRV will have cost me 2K and hopefully I'll be able to enjoy it for a few years :)

Not changing it is a false economy. Yes, do the water pump, too, as you have to remove the belt to replace it. Pay once for labor. I live in the rust capitol of the world, SE Michigan where salt covers the roads every winter. Gen 1's aren't rust buckets. Rear diff, Honda "dual pump" fluid only. If its worn, you get a wierd "urk urk urk" type of noise in low speed turns. Not that expensive to change.

You're getting a deal on the CRV, so spend the $1000 for belt, pump, rear diff & probably coolant change, too. Has the trans fluid ever been changed? If not, that car's a prime candidate for it, too. DON'T "power flush" it, however, as I've read in several locations that's not recommended by Honda as it tends to stir up too much gunk.

Absolutely, an A/T power flush is asking for trouble. Just change the fluid with Honda ATF Fluid.

There is no rush on doing all but the timing belt and the associated stuff, after all it has been near 100k miles. Another thousand or two k miles will not make a difference.

Also to do the job completely it is a good idea to change the thermostat too. It would be a shame for that to fail after doing all this work for a very important $10 item.

Brooklyn, some dealers are shady or just do not have the Honda part in time so will substitute. MAKE SURE ALL PARTS ARE ORIGINAL HONDA PARTS and not aftermarket. If they start substituting the deal that you got will start to wither away.

Do not hold it up if a gasket is not available in original Honda, but all the major stuff definitely should be Honda. It will last longer, fit and work better IMO in the long run.

-Rg

The dealer invited me to stay and watch as the CRV gets done next week, which I intend to do so I'll be able to monitor the parts.

Thanks again !

The dealer invited me to stay and watch as the CRV gets done next week, which I intend to do so I'll be able to monitor the parts.

Thanks again !

thats good!!
what my friend and I did was.. we ordered the Tbelt kit from egay..
the oem ones, i think its from H of temacula..for 190, then ask
the dealer if they could install it for me since its all oem too..
then out of some circumstances, i had it installed at midas..LOL!!
i was feeling uneasy with the V so i didnt wait for the wkend sched
at the dealership..same thing in midas they let you see what parts was replaced/changed..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-GENUINE-CRV-TIMING-BELT-WATER-PUMP-KIT-97-01-OEM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7 c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 4a97c1e091QQitemZ320373645457QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fT ruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

The dealer invited me to stay and watch as the CRV gets done next week, which I intend to do so I'll be able to monitor the parts.

Thanks again !
That is rather uncharacteristic. They general use the 'insurance prohibition' reason to keep owners from seeing what goes on.

I actually see that as a good sign. It indicates they have nothing to hide if they let you watch.

-Rg

Always know the cost of the parts going into your repairs. Even if they are aftermarket, OEM or anything in between. And regardless of who is putting them in. Sure some dealers and shops get discounts but it nice to know the retail cost.

If you have time research the problem and repair, look up the labor hours, and parts cost and compare this the the shop's written estimate. Knowledge is power and a lower repair bill!

Or better yet, after all your reasearch, fix it yourself and save some money and learn something.

Also consider a name brand timing belt or Honda OEM. Just to sleep better at night.