Synthetic oil or regular???

[Psyman42]

looking into doing an oil change soon and was debating which I should choose...synthetic oil or regular oil?? anybody got opinions about this??? :confused:

[2RedV's]

looking into doing an oil change soon and was debating which I should choose...synthetic oil or regular oil?? anybody got opinions about this??? :confused:
There are more opinions than stars in the universe.

Since modern oils and engines do so well, I wouldn't bother to spend the extra money unless you truly believe you are going to keep the car until it dies. Even then, I'll bet that the engine outlasts the rest of the car, computer included.

[07CRVOWNR]

I agree with 2RedV's comment. Although, I am a fan of synthetic. The one tangible difference, if true, that I spoke to the dealership when I purchased my 2007 CRV is the oil monitor. The cpu that controls this function is programmed/geared towards regular oil. Meaning, according to the dealership, if I start using synthetic I will have to go by mileage, the old way, instead of waiting to see if the percentage gets to a certain point on the display. To me, this is no big deal if correct. Just some thoughts, hope this helps.

[OUZO Power]

Can't beet synthetic.

I do 10K km oil changes on the CR-V with Motul 4100 and once a year on the Prelude with Motul 8100.

CR-V has 275,000 km and dosen't burn a drop.

[connermt]

looking into doing an oil change soon and was debating which I should choose...synthetic oil or regular oil?? anybody got opinions about this??? :confused:

In a CRV's 2.4 (for 07) engine, I wouldn't use a full synthetic oil. A high revving engine in a S2000 or HP vehicle I would, but not in a CRV. I just don't see a need for it.
Maybe half synthetic half conventional oil.
To me, oil brand would be a bigger consideration.

[Black Pearl]

In a CRV's 2.4 (for 07) engine, I wouldn't use a full synthetic oil. A high revving engine in a S2000 or HP vehicle I would, but not in a CRV. I just don't see a need for it.
Maybe half synthetic half conventional oil.
To me, oil brand would be a bigger consideration.

What brand do you suggest? If you read the manual, Honda insists that you use only Honda brand fluids to the degree that if you use something else in an emergency that you have the dealer flush it and install the Honda fluid. Motor oil is an exception, although they highly recommend Honda Motor Oil.

I am sure Honda's oil is probably 3 times as expensive as normally available oil, but is there a discernable difference?

I intend to keep the car forever & don't mind paying premium providing that there is something more to the oil than an H logo on a pretty bottle.

I intend to change the oil myself and wonder can you buy Honda oil somewhere besides the dealer or internets sales?

While we are on the subject of oil, my dealer told me that the oil life maintenance monitor was determined by a laser beam and sensor in the oil pan that measured the clarity of the oil. This seemed a bit far fetched to me and I have not found any technical info verifying that claim. Then again having radio emmitting pressure sensors on the valve stems of your tires seems a bit far fetched.

[Psyman42]

I guess I'll go the regular route save some money and I too believe that engines and oils have come a long way to be better than what they were a few years back.

[norsseman]

Looking for a Honda compatible Synthetic auto tranny fluid for my v? any suggestions? Thiking about Redline auto tranny fluid for our v baby after 36K.

[connermt]

What brand do you suggest? If you read the manual, Honda insists that you use only Honda brand fluids to the degree that if you use something else in an emergency that you have the dealer flush it and install the Honda fluid. Motor oil is an exception, although they highly recommend Honda Motor Oil.

I am sure Honda's oil is probably 3 times as expensive as normally available oil, but is there a discernable difference?

I intend to keep the car forever & don't mind paying premium providing that there is something more to the oil than an H logo on a pretty bottle.

I intend to change the oil myself and wonder can you buy Honda oil somewhere besides the dealer or internets sales?

While we are on the subject of oil, my dealer told me that the oil life maintenance monitor was determined by a laser beam and sensor in the oil pan that measured the clarity of the oil. This seemed a bit far fetched to me and I have not found any technical info verifying that claim. Then again having radio emmitting pressure sensors on the valve stems of your tires seems a bit far fetched.

Last car I used Castro synthetic usually, but haven't had an oil change with the CRV yet. I will take it to the dealer & they will use what they use I suppose. Probably Valvoline or Mobile but not sure what they use since haven't had it there yet.
Purely synthetic seems like over-kill for a CRV engine to me, but that's just me.
I hear Royal Purple is good as is Amsoil (but Aimsoil is kinda' expensive)

[07CRVOWNR]

Black Pearl, the dealer told you the incorrect information concerning a laser in the oil pan.

The following appears in the 2007 CRV's User Manual (Page 257):
"Based on the engine operating conditions and accumulated engine revolutions, the onboard computer in your vehicle calculates the remaining engine oil life and displays it as a percentage"

No matter what type of oil are used, the oil itself generally doesn't break down before the additives that are used within the oil. This is where the modern oils are so much better than the old oils in combination with the various filters that are sold. Meaning, the oil can last longer because the filters also do a better job of cleaning the contaminates out of the oil.

[Psyman42]

which oil filters would you guys use?? the honda genuine ones or filters from autozone??

On the subject of filters, my friend brought up a good point where I should use genuine honda filters just so I won't void the warranty if I use something else...is that true???? :confused:

[Black Pearl]

Last car I used Castro synthetic usually, but haven't had an oil change with the CRV yet. I will take it to the dealer & they will use what they use I suppose. Probably Valvoline or Mobile but not sure what they use since haven't had it there yet.
Purely synthetic seems like over-kill for a CRV engine to me, but that's just me.
I hear Royal Purple is good as is Amsoil (but Aimsoil is kinda' expensive)

From http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm:

"API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP
Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters. "

This guy goes on further about Amsoil not disclosing the fact they did not get an API certificate for many of their products because of the issue related above.

[Black Pearl]

which oil filters would you guys use?? the honda genuine ones or filters from autozone??

On the subject of filters, my friend brought up a good point where I should use genuine honda filters just so I won't void the warranty if I use something else...is that true???? :confused:

I perused the manual and they are very quick to point out that only Honda fluids should be used. If other fluids are used in an emergency, the car should be taken to the dealer and the system flushed. However on oil, they only recommend using Honda oil. They do demand an API certified oil. I saw no demand or recommendation for the brand of filter.

You can get a 6 pack of Honda filters at H & A for $26.64

http://www.handa-accessories.com/crvmaint07.html

[Psyman42]

You can get a 6 pack of Honda filters at H & A for $26.64

http://www.handa-accessories.com/crvmaint07.html

but are those honda filters good quality?? Although it says Genuine Honda, doesn't necessarily mean they are good, I compared the Honda Air filter to that of a Purolator for a 99 Civic and the Honda filter looked really cheap...I'm leaning towards spendin the extra few dollars and getting the Purolator PureOne filter by the Strauss Auto Store near me.

[2RedV's]

but are those honda filters good quality?? Although it says Genuine Honda, doesn't necessarily mean they are good, I compared the Honda Air filter to that of a Purolator for a 99 Civic and the Honda filter looked really cheap...I'm leaning towards spendin the extra few dollars and getting the Purolator PureOne filter by the Strauss Auto Store near me.Compare apples to apples. Are you going to put a 1999 Civic filter on your 07 V? The key is the the anti-drainback valve. The Honda filters are good. You can also put the S2000 filter on your V - it's a bigger capacity filter. Honda actually has a bulletin about it. If I can find it, I'll post it later.

[Black Pearl]

To be honest with you, I don't have a clue.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Filters

According to this guy the manufacturer's filters are generally the best.

The aftermarket filters (Fram, Wix, Purolator etc) vary in quality.


One would think that a Honda filter changed at every oil change will be better than adequate. Is it the best? Probably not. Is the best absolutely required? Probably not. If you are using the vehicle in a normal fashion, I am going to bet that the Honda filter will be fine.

I used Pure One on my previous car. Whether they are any better than a regulator filter, I don't know. But they were certainly pricey compared to the other filters sold at Advance Auto Parts.

[connermt]

From http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm:

"API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP
Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters. "

This guy goes on further about Amsoil not disclosing the fact they did not get an API certificate for many of their products because of the issue related above.


Wow! Good lookin' out!
Thanks

[connermt]

I perused the manual and they are very quick to point out that only Honda fluids should be used. If other fluids are used in an emergency, the car should be taken to the dealer and the system flushed. However on oil, they only recommend using Honda oil. They do demand an API certified oil. I saw no demand or recommendation for the brand of filter.

You can get a 6 pack of Honda filters at H & A for $26.64

http://www.handa-accessories.com/crvmaint07.html
Sweet! More good info!!

[Black Pearl]

Compare apples to apples. Are you going to put a 1999 Civic filter on your 07 V? The key is the the anti-drainback valve. The Honda filters are good. You can also put the S2000 filter on your V - it's a bigger capacity filter. Honda actually has a bulletin about it. If I can find it, I'll post it later.

Thank you! I spoke to my spiritual advisor in automotive affairs about this oil filter issue and he said the same thing...that many foreign cars use an anti-drainback valve and that most of the after market filters do not include them.
The information he had read recommended buying the manufacturers filters off the dealer and paying the difference in price. Again H&A has a six pack for 24 something.

I confess to be intrigued by the S2000 filter, although I have read that the 07 CRV filter is tough to get to. If you can find the bulletin, please do post it. Thanks again.

Regarding the air filter, I would lay money that the Honda filter was the better filter regardless of how cheap it looked. Honda has a vested interest in your engine, (warranties, extended warranties, customer satisfaction, & quality reputation) Purolator doesn't. I bet the Honda filter was engineered for the car, filtration verses flow through the filter with the best balance between the two. Purolator probably engineered an existing media to fit the housing. Sometimes better is worse. We had a bearing manufacturer give us a far better surface than specified on some thrust bearings for one of our product lines. Suddenly we had high break away torques. After a very expensive investigation the solution was to rough up the surface with a piece of Scotch bright, and ask the manufacturer to provide the previous surface requirement.

[2RedV's]

Thank you! I spoke to my spiritual advisor in automotive affairs about this oil filter issue and he said the same thing...that many foreign cars use an anti-drainback valve and that most of the after market filters do not include them.
The information he had read recommended buying the manufacturers filters off the dealer and paying the difference in price. Again H&A has a six pack for 24 something.

I confess to be intrigued by the S2000 filter, although I have read that the 07 CRV filter is tough to get to. If you can find the bulletin, please do post it. Thanks again.

Regarding the air filter, I would lay money that the Honda filter was the better filter regardless of how cheap it looked. Honda has a vested interest in your engine, (warranties, extended warranties, customer satisfaction, & quality reputation) Purolator doesn't. I bet the Honda filter was engineered for the car, filtration verses flow through the filter with the best balance between the two. Purolator probably engineered an existing media to fit the housing. Sometimes better is worse. We had a bearing manufacturer give us a far better surface than specified on some thrust bearings for one of our product lines. Suddenly we had high break away torques. After a very expensive investigation the solution was to rough up the surface with a piece of Scotch bright, and ask the manufacturer to provide the previous surface requirement.It isn't that aftermarket filters have no anti-drainback valve, it's just that most have been shown to be quite poor in actual use.

[2RedV's]

From the September 2002 Honda Service News is a nice little article about using larger oil filters. (keep in mind this was written in 2002 and part numbers may have changed) However, people on other forums have reported this is true for the 2nd gen's with no issues. Assuming the 2007 (3rd gen) V is the same since the engine is basically unchanged, this should be OK as well.


Can a Small Oil Filter Be Replaced by a Large One?

For all Honda models, the answer is YES. The 65
mm diameter oil filter is directly interchangeable
with the 80 mm diameter filter. Both filters use the
same filtration media to do the job, and filter out
at least 70 percent of the particles that are 30
microns or larger, and 85 percent of the
particles that are 40 microns or larger.
• Large filter: P/N 15400-PLC-004,
H/C 6475834 or
P/N 15400-PLM-A01,
H/C 6446231
• Small filter: P/N 15400-PT7-005,
H/C 3630399 or
P/N 15400-P0H-305,
H/C 4908182

[Black Pearl]

Thanks for the info.


Browsing about H&A, it appears that there are 2 filters:

15400-PLM-A02 which seems to be used on everything except the S2000. Even the Ody and Ridgelines. $5.04 ea or $26.64 for a 6 pack

15400-PCX-004 is for the S2000 $6.68 ea or 35.28 for a 6 pack.

There is no indication that the filters are or are not inter-changeable.

There was a note on some models about the 15400-PLM-A02 being a smaller diameter than the previous 15400-POH-305 which was discontinued.

The filter wrenches listed under each model had a different reference number and price. The S2000 was 24.90 and the CR-V was 18.65.

If you already have a wrench, you may want to stick with the standard filter.

Although tempting, I think I may go with the standard filter. If it is good enough for the Ody and Ridgeline, it should be fine on a CR-V.

[HandA]

on the PCX filter Honda says:

http://www.HandA-Accessories.com/PCX.gif

depending on the application it may make the filter harder to get on and off if the space is really tight.

-Trevor

[1ownerT]

For those who live in four season climates, put a quart of conventional and a quart of synthetic in the freezer for a couple of hours. Then give them the pour test, might change your mind.
With the MM on the Honda's, people are getting upwards of 9,000 mi. on their oil before changing. I am not sure I would trust a conventional oil to that extent. A UOA test could ease concerns.

[Psyman42]

For those who live in four season climates, put a quart of conventional and a quart of synthetic in the freezer for a couple of hours. Then give them the pour test, might change your mind.
With the MM on the Honda's, people are getting upwards of 9,000 mi. on their oil before changing. I am not sure I would trust a conventional oil to that extent. A UOA test could ease concerns.

instead of wastin 2 perfectly good bottles of oil, can you tell us what the results are???? :rolleyes:

[2RedV's]

instead of wastin 2 perfectly good bottles of oil, can you tell us what the results are???? :rolleyes:
uh, you wouldn't exactly be wasting them.... Your deep freeze is probably near zero degrees F.

[connermt]

For those who live in four season climates, put a quart of conventional and a quart of synthetic in the freezer for a couple of hours. Then give them the pour test, might change your mind.
With the MM on the Honda's, people are getting upwards of 9,000 mi. on their oil before changing. I am not sure I would trust a conventional oil to that extent. A UOA test could ease concerns.

A tad off-subject:
I saw a timeline experiment about "which oil is better" (on conventional oils only, not synthetic). It isn't as much the name brand of the oil, but the filter itself. The same oil lasted longer with a different type of filter. Actually, in the experiment, they took two identical filters, hollowed out one. Then, they unwound a roll of TP (toilet paper, think it was two ply), rewound it tighter in a hollowed out filter. Installed both the normal filter & the TP filter. Ran the engines for through the same cycles & the oil with the TP lasted longer, was cleaner & protected better. For an 'oil change' they drained the oil, tested it, found the TP filter worked best, cleaned the TP, reinstalled the TP back into that filter, reinstalled that filter, refilled that engine with the same oil. Then they took another "better" filter, installed it on the other engine, filled it with new oil, ran the same cycle & again the oil in the TP filter had cleaner oil & less engine damage.

Quite interesting

[Black Pearl]

It is hard to believe that the TP withstood the heat and dp across the filter.
Did they do the inverse of the experiment and place filter media on the toilet paper roll? Probably be some interesting data generated with that experiment.

[connermt]

It is hard to believe that the TP withstood the heat and dp across the filter.
Did they do the inverse of the experiment and place filter media on the toilet paper roll? Probably be some interesting data generated with that experiment.

I believe that is why they rewrapped the TP so tightly, to help with the heat & such. I wouldn't have believed it if I wouldn't have seen it. It's been a while. I can't remember if they rewrapped the TP around the original roll or not, but I don't think they did, due to how they cleaned the TP.
Basically, they were trying to show that it is the filter & its "guts" that should be of more concern than the oil brand itself.
Again, this was before synthetic oil was big with the public.

[Silver98]

Okay, so who makes the Synthetic Double Pump fluid or What is Amsoil's replacment?

[2RedV's]

Okay, so who makes the Synthetic Double Pump fluid or What is Amsoil's replacment?AMSOIL does not make one, nor does anyone else. Honda has refused to release the specs/additives on what is in this hydraulic fluid. Since the Honda fluid, when changed regularly, makes these units last several hundred thousand miles (based upon other owners reports) it simply isn't worth trying to experiment with another fluid.

[Black Pearl]

For those with newer vehicles still under warranty, Honda states in the owner's manual that specific Honda brand fluids must be used in

Automatic Transmission
Brakes
Engine Coolant
Power Steering
Rear Differential

The owners manual will suggest temporary alternatives for some of the fluids in case of an emergency but then requires that the vehicle be returned to the dealer and flushed and refilled with the proper Honda fluid.

The rear differential fluid does not have an alternative listed, and it specifically states to use Honda Dual Pump Fluid and not to use automatic transmission fluid.

Judging from 2RedV's commentary elsewhere in the forums regarding the rear differential, one is playing a fool's game to not regularly change the oil and to use anything but Honda's Fluid.

For those owners who no longer have warranties still in effect I would give deep consideration to idea that if Honda does not want to pay for repairs when non-Honda fluids have been used, you shouldn't want to pay them either. Use the Honda fluid, its cheap insurance.

[2RedV's]

Don't believe the brake fluid though - DOT 3 is a federal spec. Use ANY QUALITY DOT3 brake fluid you want.

[Black Pearl]

Don't believe the brake fluid though - DOT 3 is a federal spec. Use ANY QUALITY DOT3 brake fluid you want.

I have found myself in agreement with 99% of your comments, but on this one, alas, I find I must disagree.

From pg 275 of the owner's manual.

"Using any non-Honda brake fluid can cause corrosion and decrease the life of the system. Have the brake system flushed and refilled with Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3 as soon as possible."

If I remember right, and I don't claim to know anything, DOT brake fluid specs were for boiling temperatures. The old fluids would boil with the higher heat loading from disk brakes causing a spongy pedal or no pedal.

Again I say, use the Honda fluid, its cheap insurance.

Oh, they also say not to use DOT 5 under any cirmcumstances because it will cause "extensive damage". Maybe DOT specs have more to them than boiling temperature.

[2RedV's]

I have found myself in agreement with 99% of your comments, but on this one, alas, I find I must disagree.

From pg 275 of the owner's manual.

"Using any non-Honda brake fluid can cause corrosion and decrease the life of the system. Have the brake system flushed and refilled with Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3 as soon as possible."

If I remember right, and I don't claim to know anything, DOT brake fluid specs were for boiling temperatures. The old fluids would boil with the higher heat loading from disk brakes causing a spongy pedal or no pedal.

Again I say, use the Honda fluid, its cheap insurance.

Oh, they also say not to use DOT 5 under any cirmcumstances because it will cause "extensive damage". Maybe DOT specs have more to them than boiling temperature.DOT 3 is just that - DOT 3, and yes, it does have to do with boiling temps. Maybe a generic DOT 3 would be the same as a name brand DOT 3, but I would go with name brand.

DOT 5 is silicon fluid and the V isn't designed for it. I have other, much older vehicles, that I have put silicon brake fluid in. They are a different story.

[sprig]

I've no doubt that Honda oil, filters, etc, are good for Honda autos, but I'll take filters with 98.7% particle removal at 15 microns over 70% at 30 microns.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eao.aspx

And, 0 viscosity at startup, when most wear on an engine occurs, is simply better than 5 (see freezer test, amsoil runs freely when frozen, dino oil does not). BTW, Amsoil oils are API certified, in spite of a multitude of mis-information out there.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asm.aspx

Amsoil ATF, once again, flows easily at startup when temps are very low, dino ATF does not. This does meet the requirements for Honda Z1, but, what is a "CVT" transmission? Nothing in my '06 manual states that I have a CVT, so I assume I do not.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx

Honda engines will go forever, usually, no matter what you use. I prefer Amsoil, for the obvious reasons.

[2RedV's]

I've no doubt that Honda oil, filters, etc, are good for Honda autos, but I'll take filters with 98.7% particle removal at 15 microns over 70% at 30 microns.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eao.aspx

And, 0 viscosity at startup, when most wear on an engine occurs, is simply better than 5 (see freezer test, amsoil runs freely when frozen, dino oil does not). BTW, Amsoil oils are API certified, in spite of a multitude of mis-information out there.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asm.aspx

Amsoil ATF, once again, flows easily at startup when temps are very low, dino ATF does not. This does meet the requirements for Honda Z1, but, what is a "CVT" transmission? Nothing in my '06 manual states that I have a CVT, so I assume I do not.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx

Honda engines will go forever, usually, no matter what you use. I prefer Amsoil, for the obvious reasons.

My main issue with Amsoil (vs Mobil 1, etc. synthetics) is the manner in which Amsoil conducts business. You mainly come across Amsoil "pushers" who claim all of these "benefits" but then you find out they are selling the product themselves. No thanks.

Like I have said before, since Honda engines last so long to begin with, why bother to spend extra money for engine protection when they do so well without it? What happens when you end up with a 300,000 mile car with a great engine but the rest of the car is falling apart due to age and normal wear?

[sprig]

My main issue with Amsoil (vs Mobil 1, etc. synthetics) is the manner in which Amsoil conducts business. You mainly come across Amsoil "pushers" who claim all of these "benefits" but then you find out they are selling the product themselves. No thanks.

Like I have said before, since Honda engines last so long to begin with, why bother to spend extra money for engine protection when they do so well without it? What happens when you end up with a 300,000 mile car with a great engine but the rest of the car is falling apart due to age and normal wear?

I don't sell it, just use it, but I understand the pyramid scheme used by the company. By extending drain intervals, the price is little different from conventional oil.

[Black Pearl]

I don't sell it, just use it, but I understand the pyramid scheme used by the company. By extending drain intervals, the price is little different from conventional oil.

If you have a valid warranty or extended warranty with Honda, you can use Amsoil (those which are API certified and not all Amsoils are so be careful) and Amsoil filters, but according to my owners manual:

"Synthetic Oil

You may use a synthetic motor oil if it meets the same requirements given for a conventional motor oil: it displays the API certification seal, and it is the proper weight. You must follow the oil and filter change intervals shown on the information display."

Regarding ATF again from my owner's manual:

"Always use Honda ATF-Z1 (automatic transmission fluid). If it's not available, you may use Dexron III automatic transmission fluid as a temporary replacement. However, continued use can affect the shift quality. Have the transmission flushed and refilled with Honda ATF-Z1 by your dealer as soon as it is convenient."

Regarding the API certification here is some info. I don't know whether it is B.S. or not, my only comment is to be careful. Look for the API seal.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm:

The Amsoil site guarantees their filters for 25,000 miles or 1 year (not sure how many people drive 25 K in a year-but I am sure there are a few). It probably is a better filter, although one might want to consider dp across the filter especially at 24,000 miles. It is almost 3 times as expensive.

But...

If you want to keep your Honda warranty in effect, you had better follow Honda's interval and not Amsoil's.

And as was stated "I've no doubt that Honda oil, filters, etc, are good for Honda autos"

But then again, why use lead when gold will do?

[sprig]

If you want to keep your Honda warranty in effect, you had better follow Honda's interval and not Amsoil's.



It doesn't take long for 3/36 to be done and gone.

[Black Pearl]

It doesn't take long for 3/36 to be done and gone.

Perhaps, but 8/120 does take a little time.

[sprig]

Perhaps, but 8/120 does take a little time.

Is that the warranty the '07s have, or is it an extended warranty?

[2RedV's]

Is that the warranty the '07s have, or is it an extended warranty?That would be an extended warranty.

[sprig]

That would be an extended warranty.

I guess then, paying for the extended warranty, and being stuck with following Honda's requirements to honor that warranty if needed, is much like spending extra for Amsoil oil and filters, and not following Honda's requirements (since the standard 3/36 is done so soon). You've spent extra money either way for something you don't likely need.

My experience with Amsoil began with using not only the motor oil, but also the gear lube in front and rear diffs, and in a manual tranny in a Toyota Tacoma. The Tacoma shifted very hard in cold weather in the north country, and you could hardly make it move in first due to the stiffness of the fluids in the tranny and differentials. Changing to synthetic for all lubes made an unbelievable difference in shifting and getting the truck rolling in cold weather. It also improved my mileage by 10-20%.

That made me a believer and I can't help but think there is a whole lot less wear when fluids flow right away, especially in extreme cold. For those reasons, I have even less need to spend money on an extended warranty.

[Black Pearl]

The great thing about money is that my extended warranty didn't cost you a dime and your Amsoil costs me nothing. As to the wisdom of buying an extended warranty, I doubt that there is any. Most likely it will be a waste of money... ah but my money. I do not buy extended warranties on anything other than automobiles. I wrestle with it everytime I do it, but I notice that once I commit to buying it, I never think about it again. But obviously I do not want to invalidate it by not following the service procedures.

You have had very good experience with Amsoil, and you find that it gives you peace of mind. I never heard of the stuff until I joined this forum. You will spend a lot less for your Amsoil than I will spend on the warranty. In both cases it probably is a waste of money. But you have spent far less money and time under your oil pan. So I congratulate you on choosing wisely.

As I said before, I never heard Amsoil until joining this forum. We have winters in Pittsburgh, but I can't say that the cold here has me concerned about the performance of regular motor oil. I am sure though that Amsoil is an excellent choice of lubricant.

As poor of a choice as an extended warranty is, (and it most certainly is, I recommend it to no one--I only do it for peace of mind, and mostly because I am a good bit simple minded--but I digress) I will say this: the use of Amsoil will do nothing for the life of the CPU, air conditioning, brakes, power steering, suspension, fuel system, cd player, electrical system, or non lubricant issues involving the engine, transmission, or rear differential. The warranty does cover these things in varying detail, but most likely I will never use it, but it is peace of mind. It is doing something positive when confronted with mind numbing amount of clap trap on a modern vehicle that can go bad. It cost me 1.1 cent per additional mile covered. Good deal? Not hardly. Should everyone do it? Absolutely not! But it is peace of mind for the feeble minded.

Again my only comments regarding Amsoil is look for the API seal, and if you are concerned with your warranty, abide by Honda's required intervals and not Amsoil's.

[2RedV's]

I guess then, paying for the extended warranty, and being stuck with following Honda's requirements to honor that warranty if needed, is much like spending extra for Amsoil oil and filters, and not following Honda's requirements (since the standard 3/36 is done so soon). You've spent extra money either way for something you don't likely need.

My experience with Amsoil began with using not only the motor oil, but also the gear lube in front and rear diffs, and in a manual tranny in a Toyota Tacoma. The Tacoma shifted very hard in cold weather in the north country, and you could hardly make it move in first due to the stiffness of the fluids in the tranny and differentials. Changing to synthetic for all lubes made an unbelievable difference in shifting and getting the truck rolling in cold weather. It also improved my mileage by 10-20%.

That made me a believer and I can't help but think there is a whole lot less wear when fluids flow right away, especially in extreme cold. For those reasons, I have even less need to spend money on an extended warranty.Mobil 1 makes great synthetic gear lube, etc. and no marketing crapola. I have used Mobil 1 syn products for over 25 years in all kinds of vehicles.

Beware to newbies - DO NOT TRY to put anything but Honda Dual pump Fluid in your CR-V rear differential! It does not take gear lube. It is a hydraulic fluid.
ps - I have long wondered if CAT hydraulic fluid is acceptable in the rear diff. It is designed for high extremes of heat and cold, etc. If I ever come across a salvage yard special rear diff for $100 or so, I will try it. My guess is that it would be perfectly acceptable and a whole cheaper.

Here's a great CAT article on hydraulic systems. It may help one understand WHY fluid changes are needed periodically.

http://www.cat.com/cda/components/securedFile/displaySecuredFileServletJSP?fileId=137007&languageId=7

It is BIG, let it download...

[sprig]

Mobil 1 makes great synthetic gear lube, etc. and no marketing crapola. I have used Mobil 1 syn products for over 25 years in all kinds of vehicles.

Beware to newbies - DO NOT TRY to put anything but Honda Dual pump Fluid in your CR-V rear differential! It does not take gear lube. It is a hydraulic fluid.
ps - I have long wondered if CAT hydraulic fluid is acceptable in the rear diff. It is designed for high extremes of heat and cold, etc. If I ever come across a salvage yard special rear diff for $100 or so, I will try it. My guess is that it would be perfectly acceptable and a whole cheaper.


I agree, Mobil1 is good synthetic, and I'd use it if I didn't use Amsoil.

Stopped short of adding synthetic in the differentials, since I didn't know exactly what double pump was. Guess I'll stick with the Honda stuff there.

[Black Pearl]

I am not sure I want to get into this but I Googled Amsoil. As I said in an earlier post, I never heard of it until I joined this forum.

If I use my usual BS detectors, I would have to say that something is odd about Amsoil. There are thousands of sites devoted to the glories of Amsoil, for everything from chain saws to jet engines. There is one lady even selling techniques to better sell Amsoil. You open another site and the first thing you find is a page and half devoted to the credentials of some guy proving that he is certified public lubricating engineer, then he starts singing grand arias to the wonders of Amsoil. There was another site claiming that Mobil 1 is still playing catch up to Amsoil. (Excuse my ignorance here, but I believe that if Mobil 1 was seriously worried about Amsoil, Exxon/Mobil would simply buy the company.)

There is a certain religious fervor to it that would make me run from a religion let alone something as mundane as oil. Judging from the passion that I have read about it in this forum, I should imagine that it is a good product.

However, why can't I buy it at my local autoparts store? There is a site that explaines why. My BS detector states: stay away from this stuff. If for no other reason than, I simply want to buy some oil. I don't want to become part of an exciting multi-million dollar retail organization extending the life of millions of engines, improving world peace, solving world hunger through longer tractor oil changes, improving the environment...

Good products usually don't need this level of fervor to successfully make it in the market. Something is odd.

[2RedV's]

Black Pearl...

Amsoil is sold exclusively via a multi-level marketing program, ala Amway, Avon, Mary Kay Cosmetics, etc. The people who tout the products the loudest and most fervently are always the ones making the money off of the product.

It is VERY difficult to find REAL, INDEPENDENT lab tests of Amsoil. You will find Amsoil supported tests proclaiming it to be the savior of oil.

Around my area, many farmers use the product, however, they are sellers - to themselves. When they buy oil and hydraulic fluids by the drum, at wholesale, they save a bundle of money over what they would have to pay for other products.

[rbatey]

I bought a '97 with 100K miles on it, and right away switched to synthetic oil since I need it to last a long time. A friend recommended Amsoil so I bought some from their web site. I had no experience with the religious fervor or cult like behavior that everyone mentions, or I would probably have run screaming too. Incidentally, I met a local dealer one day who actually recommended that I just buy through the web site. I change the oil and filter every six months, and driving 15K per year I have found the cost to be comparable to regular oil while spending far less time on oil changes.
I also noticed that my mileage is higher than my dad's '97 (both have 140K miles). My mileage averages 26-28 and his averages 22-24. Maybe that is the difference in synthetic oil.

[Black Pearl]

An improvement in mileage would justify the extra cost of synthetic (I have an extended warranty to protect so I can't use a longer period). My comments on Amsoil is purely based on the amount of propaganda that I Googled. So you didn't have unexplained loss of periods of time or odd scars on your body after buying it? You don't feel compelled to turn over 50% of your income to Amsoil, and enlist your neighbors and friends to the cause? It is just oil?

[sprig]

An improvement in mileage would justify the extra cost of synthetic (I have an extended warranty to protect so I can't use a longer period). My comments on Amsoil is purely based on the amount of propaganda that I Googled. So you didn't have unexplained loss of periods of time or odd scars on your body after buying it? You don't feel compelled to turn over 50% of your income to Amsoil, and enlist your neighbors and friends to the cause? It is just oil?

I don't sell it, but I do pay for the "preferred customer" membership to get the stuff at wholesale. With extended drain intervals, I pay about the same as I would for Honda oil and filters.

I ignore the marketing, but do pay attention to what independent mechanics have to say, and, the improved mileage and shifting on my Tacoma is enough for me.

[2RedV's]

Math Lesson.

Time to play the numbers.

IF one normally gets 24 mpg and gets .5 of 1 mpg as an increase by switching to synthetic oil and gas costs $3 per gallon, and the owner follows the manual and changes oil every 10,000 miles with either oil, will there be any payback?

Dino oil and 24 mpg = $1250 for fuel every 10,000 miles or $.125 per mile

Syn oil and 24.5 mpg = $1224 for fuel every 10,000 miles or $.1224 per mile

One would save $26 in fuel costs every 10,000 miles. Dino oil costs around $2.50 per quart and syn about $5. You need 4.4 quarts in your V to change oil (unless you are using the bigger S2000 filter). We will assume buying 5 quarts for this.

Dino oil - $12.50 per change
Syn oil - $25.00 per change

Your $26 in fuel savings minus the extra cost of the oil ($12.50) gives you a possible savings of $13.50 every 10,000 miles. However, if you are buying the $10+ syn oil filter... you eat up most of that savings.

If gas prices drop, you save less and if they rise, you save a little more.

[Black Pearl]

Your math is based on 1/2 mpg. Our friend from TN reports getting 4 mpg better than Dad, which I doubt can be purely attributed to syn oil. Is there some recognized average improvement, based on independent science rather than marketing hype? My BS detectors are covered in sludge from yesterday's excursion into Amsoil. I don't have the resolve to google synthetic oil mpg improvement.

[2RedV's]

Your math is based on 1/2 mpg. Our friend from TN reports getting 4 mpg better than Dad, which I doubt can be purely attributed to syn oil. Is there some recognized average improvement, based on independent science rather than marketing hype? My BS detectors are covered in sludge from yesterday's excursion into Amsoil. I don't have the resolve to google synthetic oil mpg improvement.I have used syn oil in many vehicles since 1984 when I bought a new Pontiac Fiero (easy now, it was actually a great car) and switched to Mobil 1 at 10k miles.

I am a fervent mpg watcher (good indicator of upcoming problems) and always get about .5 to nearly 1 additional mpg when I switch.
An additional 4 mpg is more than a suspect number.

I do not bother with syn in my 2 V's because I use them as commuter cars and expect to replace them at any given time. I do not expect any engine issues within the time frame I normally keep one of the commuter vehicles and spending extra for maintaining the engine for the next guy doesn't interest me. That being said, it looks like I will be keeping the 99 for my 16 year old son and buying either an 08 V or an 09 diesel V and keeping the 04. I can't see getting rid of either V since they are still well liked by all of us and in amazing shape.

[sprig]

1 mpg is close on the Tacoma, although it may be better than that in the winter in ND, not because of the oil in the crank case, but because of the "Much more fluid in cold temps" gear lube in the manually tranny and differentials. I haven't compared as I don't want to go back to the "difficult shifting hard to get rolling" vehicle I had before changing to syn.

Won't try it all the way around on the Honda due to the double pump fluid requirement

As is, the anti-amsoil arguments are about equal to the amsoil marketing.

[Black Pearl]

1 mpg is close on the Tacoma, although it may be better than that in the winter in ND, not because of the oil in the crank case, but because of the "Much more fluid in cold temps" gear lube in the manually tranny and differentials. I haven't compared as I don't want to go back to the "difficult shifting hard to get rolling" vehicle I had before changing to syn.

Won't try it all the way around on the Honda due to the double pump fluid requirement

As is, the anti-amsoil arguments are about equal to the amsoil marketing.



Whoa! North Dakota! Well that explains your concerns for cold weather performance, and you guys get racked pretty good with the heat.

As for the anti-amsoil rhetoric, you have cut me to the quick. But, yes, I did get unduly flamboyant. As such, I promise the “A” word will never escape my keyboard again, and as a penance I am going to become a Mary Kay Cosmetics dealer. May I interest you in some moisturizing blush for those cold winter winds?

You certainly have had good performance from it & with the weather in North Dakota, if it works there, it must be good. Thanks for the information.

[sprig]

and as a penance I am going to become a Mary Kay Cosmetics dealer. May I interest you in some moisturizing blush for those cold winter winds?


Think you might get a pink Honda?

[Black Pearl]

Think you might get a pink Honda?

The Pink Pearl. Wow! Think of the possibilities!

[1ownerT]

I could get 24.5 mpg highway out of the Bravada, with all drive line fluids changed to synthetic. I believe the EPA was 22. With my V8 Dakota I was at 21.5 highway on a EPA rating of 19. That was until the heads, cam, torque converter, computer, larger throttle body, etc.
Cold weather starts were a breeze with no lifter clatter. When it gets down to 0* or below the engine spins right over, plus the superior high temp protection was worth it to me.
Then there is the Green view, you are not using a natural resource.

[norsseman]

Read an ad that recommended Synthetic oil be put in vehicles with mileage
under 20K because synthetic oil is so good it pushes thruogh seals and gaskets. I had this happen to a 93 Ford pickup and an 81 Ford station wasgon. So I figured to put in the synthetic motor oil now or it could be to late if I waited any longer.

Although I would prefer the higher tech Redline motor oil I opted for Mobile 1
because of the lower price without any large decrease in quality. Had a jug
of Mobile 1 10-30w extended performance in the garage and figured it was good enough for the CRV. Plan on changing the oil every 5K.

Have been using synthetic motor oil since 1981 and all brands I used were OK except Amzoil. Amzol gummed up the engine in my Honda Civic and I had to use a couple of motor flushes to get the gunk out.

Redline is a true full synthetic as is Motul, but both are spendy.

[2RedV's]

I would not hesitate to put synthetic oil in any newer (say 2000 year model +) vehicle with ANY mileage on it, meaning brand new on up. I know of many people with 150,000+ miles on a car when they switched to synthetic and had no issues with oil leaks.

What happens on older vehicles is that the synthetic oil does not expand when on/in the seals, thus causing small leaks.

[GoHack]

It isn't that aftermarket filters have no anti-drainback valve, it's just that most have been shown to be quite poor in actual use.


For some reason the Japanese auto industry aren't big fans of synthetic oil, w/none of them supporting it, that I'm aware of. While the European supports the oil pretty much 100%, w/Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc requiring you use nothing but synthetic oil. The American auto industry partial supports it on certain vehicles, like the Corvette.

I don't know where this idea that after market oil filters not having anti-drainback valves, they do. There are some where you don't need one, when the oil filter is mounted from the bottom, in the vertical position. Mounting from the side and top, then yes they do.

In regards to the quality of OEM vs. after market, there are some very good, some so so, and some that are down right junk. Your best bet is to go to this website for your oil and filter answers. http://bobtheoilguy.server101.com/ They've pretty much tested all the products out there.

.

[GoatBongoBoy]

I bought a 99 v with 60 k last month, I noticed the prev owner crossed out
5w30 in the manual and wrote castrol 10/30 (not very smart IMO) in its place, the inside of the motor looked clean, the new junk brand x oil filter was loose, oil full and the engine rattled on startup,
I bought three newer smaller honda dealer filters ( I thought they were bigger around years ago) installed my mobil one 5w30 and after the car sits
(like overnight)it still rattles on startup for a few seconds, I intend to check the valve adjustment, any ideas guys?

[CCCRV07]

My 2 cents on the WHOLE oil debate is simply this. If car owners were having major engine problems using the regular recommended oil, we certaily would all have heard all about it. Synthetics may be a bit better, but are they really worth it? I seriously doubt it. IF you do regular changes, with filter like you are supposed to, you should never have a problem. A synthetic may give you a bit more HP, in a CRV, who needs that? and a bit better gas mileage, but really very little difference.

So it's really just a personal choice. I have used both. Liked both, never really seen any advantage using synthetic. It was more expensive however. With Honda's going well over 100 K miles on the standard oil, I don't think I will be using any synthetic oil in my new CRV.

Just keep good records of all your service. your warranty will be fine.

[2RedV's]

My 2 cents on the WHOLE oil debate is simply this. If car owners were having major engine problems using the regular recommended oil, we certaily would all have heard all about it. Synthetics may be a bit better, but are they really worth it? I seriously doubt it. IF you do regular changes, with filter like you are supposed to, you should never have a problem. A synthetic may give you a bit more HP, in a CRV, who needs that? and a bit better gas mileage, but really very little difference.

So it's really just a personal choice. I have used both. Liked both, never really seen any advantage using synthetic. It was more expensive however. With Honda's going well over 100 K miles on the standard oil, I don't think I will be using any synthetic oil in my new CRV.

Just keep good records of all your service. your warranty will be fine.I really like your reply!

I would change that from "Honda's going well over 100 K miles on the standard oil" to well over 250,000..... Look at autotrader.com and do an advanced search for Honda using over 100,000 miles as the criteria. :)

[GoHack]

Read an ad that recommended Synthetic oil be put in vehicles with mileage
under 20K because synthetic oil is so good it pushes thruogh seals and gaskets. I had this happen to a 93 Ford pickup and an 81 Ford station wasgon. So I figured to put in the synthetic motor oil now or it could be to late if I waited any longer.

Although I would prefer the higher tech Redline motor oil I opted for Mobile 1
because of the lower price without any large decrease in quality. Had a jug
of Mobile 1 10-30w extended performance in the garage and figured it was good enough for the CRV. Plan on changing the oil every 5K.

Have been using synthetic motor oil since 1981 and all brands I used were OK except Amzoil. Amzol gummed up the engine in my Honda Civic and I had to use a couple of motor flushes to get the gunk out.

Redline is a true full synthetic as is Motul, but both are spendy.


The problem w/the older vehicles had to do w/the gaskets that were used back then. Now silicon sealer is the norm, as well as rubber "O" ring seals, which isn't effected by the synthetic oil.

With an '88 Ford Ranger I had, bought new, after break in, I switched over to synthetic. It leaked at the gaskets, requiring me to have to wash the engine in order to keep it clean. With my 2003 BMW, it's been running synthetic since the factory, there is no leakage anywhere.
.

[GoHack]

My 2 cents on the WHOLE oil debate is simply this. If car owners were having major engine problems using the regular recommended oil, we certaily would all have heard all about it. Synthetics may be a bit better, but are they really worth it? I seriously doubt it. IF you do regular changes, with filter like you are supposed to, you should never have a problem. A synthetic may give you a bit more HP, in a CRV, who needs that? and a bit better gas mileage, but really very little difference.

So it's really just a personal choice. I have used both. Liked both, never really seen any advantage using synthetic. It was more expensive however. With Honda's going well over 100 K miles on the standard oil, I don't think I will be using any synthetic oil in my new CRV.

Just keep good records of all your service. your warranty will be fine.

From personal experience, w/the entire powertrain having synthetic oil, I've gotten a 2 to 3 mpg increase. Taking the price of synthetic oil vs the cost of gasoline, as gasoline increases, that 2 to 3 mpg starts to slowly pay off the higher cost difference of the synthetic oil.

Other benefits, the internals of your engine stays cleaner, has a lower pour point of -40F, handles higher temperatures preventing less varnish buildup, less wear and tear on the engine, and longer drain intervals. I'd feel a lot better going 7000 miles between oil changes w/synthetic than I would w/mineral base oil.

My BMW has a manufacturers recommended oil change of 15,000 miles, using synthetic oil only. I change it every 7500 miles.

Update: I've gotten that 2-3 mpg increase using synthetic oil in the entire powertrain; engine, manual transmission, and rear differential, and w/my 4x4's, the front differential and transfer case. This includes grease too.

.

[2RedV's]

GoHack:

I have to completely disagree that you get 2-3 more mpg when using synthetic oil over regular oil. If that was true, every car manufacturer would go to synthetic as the US's EPA CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) regulations are of utmost importance to them. At BEST, you can get up to 1/2 of 1 mpg more.

[GoHack]

GoHack:

I have to completely disagree that you get 2-3 more mpg when using synthetic oil over regular oil. If that was true, every car manufacturer would go to synthetic as the US's EPA CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) regulations are of utmost importance to them. At BEST, you can get up to 1/2 of 1 mpg more.

I've been using sythetic oil for years, and while I can't claim 2-3 mpg gain on the CR-V, unfortunately I can only use it in the engine, I can w/other vehicles I've owned. Again this was w/the entire powertrain running synthetic oil, the manual transmission, front and rear differentials, grease, and engine.

I just bought my 2000 CR-V, and the first thing I did was flush the engine and put synthetic oil in the engine. I don't have any mileage figures yet w/it.

As an example w/past vehicles, a 1994 Jeep Wrangler I once had. Specs: 4.0L I6 engine, w/a 5 speed MT. Before, using mineral based oil, driving 70 mph, 18 mpg, after using synthetic, 20. 100% synthetic, including the grease.

2003 Tacoma Ext Cab 4x4. Specs: 2.7L I4 engine, w/a 5 speed MT. Before 22 mpg, after 24 to 25 mpg, driving 70 mph. 100% synthetic, including the grease.

My BMW 330Ci gets 32 mpg, doing 70 mph. Specs: 3.0L I6 engine, w/a 5 speed MT. I have no numbers before, because it comes from the factory w/synthetic oil in the engine. The engine, transmission, and rear all have synthetic oil.

We're also talking about vehicles that have been fully broken in.

Most European cars now come from the factory w/it in the engines, BMW, Porsche, and Mercedes. I don't know about Audi, Volkswagan, or Ferrari.

I would imagine that it is the cost factor of the oil that has kept others from accepting it, but sooner or later, every auto manaufacturer will.

A lot has to due w/your driving too.



UPDATE: I just bought my 2000 CR-V last week, and so I had a complete Honda Service done on it today, that included a complete tuneup, w/new spark plugs (NGK Iridium), wires, rotor and cap; new timing belt, water pump, belts and anti-freeze; valves checked and adjusted; changed all the powertrain oils, including the engine (German Castrol 0W-30 Synthetic) and filter (Mobil 1); air filter; and brake fluid. Tires set at 32 psi.

I have no previous mileage to go by, but this week, before the service work, I'm got around 25 mpg, commuting w/afternoon traffic, in the Seattle area. Highway, today on a trip to Eastern Washington state, I got 26 mpg, going west to east, through the Cascades on Interstate i90, and 30 mpg, east to west, w/my cruise set at 70 mph. The interstate is steeper on the west side of the Cascades, bogging down on the engine, on Interstate i90, than on the east side, where I had no bogging.

.

[jordan]

Thinking about Redline auto tranny fluid for our v baby after 36K.

[2RedV's]

Thinking about Redline auto tranny fluid for our v baby after 36K.Absolutely not unless you get, in advance, in writing, a transmission repair guarantee from Redline (which you won't ever get).

Do not put any auto trans fluid other than Honda ZL-1 in your Honda automatic transmission.

Search the net for Amsoil and Honda transmissions, just for starters.

[chivas1]

Hello all,

I am considering using Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oil for my V....honda manual states to use oil weight of 5w20....

will using Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oil be ok? I live in Northern CA, (east San Francisco Bay Area) weather wise it never snows and lowest temp can be 30 to highest of 105 during the year.....

thanks in advanced

[w.troop]

Why wouldn't you just use the Mobil 5w-20 oil. That is what the Honda Factory engineers specified. What advantage is there is using 5w-30?

[2RedV's]

There have been various reports of Honda models that have iVtec having plugged VTEC sensors due to improper weight oil. While I doubt that any of those vehicles had synthetic oil in them, it may be prudent to stick with the factory recommendation.

[chivas1]

Why wouldn't you just use the Mobil 5w-20 oil. That is what the Honda Factory engineers specified. What advantage is there is using 5w-30?

One advantage would be price ... Costco sells a 6pk mobil1 5w30 for about 27 dollars...but after some window shopping I have found a 5 qt jug at Walmart for mobil-1 5w20 synthetic for about 23 dollars b4 taxes....compared to 5.97 per quart thats a good deal!

Thanks all .....I will stick to the recommended weight as suggested by the dealer!;)

[cderalow]

a little note about oil filters:

the OEM Honda ones made in Canada are rebranded FRAM filters, and studies have shown them to be piles of poop.

the s2000 filters are vaguely better, but are still not to the same quality in construction and filtration as some of the 3rd party ones.

If you can actually find the OEM Honda Toyo Roki oil filters (made in Japan), they're actually pretty good, so are the green HAMP acura style filters.

Most comparisons I've seen recommend a mobil1, k&n or champion made oil filter. a note on this, the purolator blue oil filters are the same construction as the mobil1 filters, but do not have as good of a filtering ability (slightly different media).

on my V, I plan on using OEM honda oils & fluids (except washer fluid), and mobil1 filters.

[Black Pearl]

a little note about oil filters:

the OEM Honda ones made in Canada are rebranded FRAM filters, and studies have shown them to be piles of poop.

the s2000 filters are vaguely better, but are still not to the same quality in construction and filtration as some of the 3rd party ones.

If you can actually find the OEM Honda Toyo Roki oil filters (made in Japan), they're actually pretty good, so are the green HAMP acura style filters.

Most comparisons I've seen recommend a mobil1, k&n or champion made oil filter. a note on this, the purolator blue oil filters are the same construction as the mobil1 filters, but do not have as good of a filtering ability (slightly different media).

on my V, I plan on using OEM honda oils & fluids (except washer fluid), and mobil1 filters.

Can you quote a source on the studies that show the Honda (not Fram) filters are junk? I have read that Fram filters are lousy. Indeed the Honda 15400-PLM-A02 filters are made by Honeywell Canada (I got six of them) and Honeywell owns Fram. But... it would seem that Honda would have a vested interest in providing a good filter under there own name. Just because Honeywell makes the filter doesn't necessarilly mean the filter is junk. If the filter is being made to Honda's specifications, then one would think that it is a good filter regardless of who made it. I am not saying that I disagree with you, I would like to see these studies though (due to the fact that I have 5 new Honda filters sitting in my basement). The crux of the issue, is the Honda 15400-PLM-A02 a rebranded Fram or is it a Honda specified filter made by Fram?

[craig78681]

a little note about oil filters:
the OEM Honda ones made in Canada are rebranded FRAM filters, and studies have shown them to be piles of poop.

I've used Fram filters for years in Chrysler, Ford, Mazda and Buick vehicles and never had a problem that I could identify as having been caused by a poor filter. I've always changed the oil & filter every 3,000 miles but probably will not change it that frequently on our new 2008 CR-V.

What are the common problems that can be traced back to poor filter design/performance?

[Carbuff2]

Go to the BOBISTHEOILGUY site
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Look for the sub-forum on passenger car oil filters and search for FRAM.

Here's the bottom line: Orange Fram filters are cheaply constructed for the price you pay. Better to get the house-brand filters from Wall-Mart (made by Champion last time I looked).

The Honda/Fram filter is made of premium materials with a good flowback valve. It is more like the Fram Toughguard (which costs more than the Honda).

The Honda has been cut open after 20K miles and it wasn't plugged yet! So you can feel safe going the 20K miles that Honda recommends as an oil filter change interval.

[GoHack]

When it comes to Frams, I've not only seen cut-a-ways of their filters, but have read articles about them and their failures, as well as met both motorcycle and auto mechanics who have personally seen Fram oil filters that have totally disintergrated in engines.

One article I've read was from a supposedly anonymous Fram engineer, who stated that Fram has no quality control on their products. While he could of been a disgruntled employee, but after seeing the cut-a-way of their filters, I have a tendacy to believe him.

This, as well as the fact, that Frams are the cheapest to buy, and are always on sale. Why on earth people spend big money on synthetic oil, and are too cheap to at least buy an OEM filter, is beyond me. Even when it comes to a brand new vehicle, they put the cheapest product into it.

I highly recommend you go to the BOBISTHEOILGUY site, as Carbuff2 suggests.
.

[Black Pearl]

. This, as well as the fact, that Frams are the cheapest to buy, and are always on sale. Why on earth people spend big money on synthetic oil, and are too cheap to at least buy an OEM filter, is beyond me. Even when it comes to a brand new vehicle, they put the cheapest product into it.

I highly recommend you go to the BOBISTHEOILGUY site, as Carbuff2 suggests.
.

In my case, that is exactly what I did...buy the OEM filter from an Authorized Honda dealer. I bought the Honda 15400-PLM-A02 filter. Right on the side of the filter is written "Honeywell, Made In Canada". (Not only do I buy one, I buy six.) Now I am hearing what a dumb SOB I am for buying a Fram filter.

As I said before, I find it incredible that Honda would sell a relabeled junk filter.

Bob the Oil Guy is not easy sledding. The sheer volume of entries makes finding anything difficult. I have searched twice and haven't found much but the same wrangling that goes on here about the best oil filter.

There is an old saw about opinions being like...well I'll pass on that. But I would like to see some factual data. Frankly I don't give a damn about Fram filters, but I am very concerned about Honda filters. I am hoping the damn car outlives me.

[2RedV's]

The cheap Fram filter is...Cheap. The Honda branded Fram isn't and dozens of people have cut them open and checked. Hondas that have had dealer service all their life and last for 300,000+ miles can't be wrong, can they?

[GoHack]

The best way to know for sure if the Honda filters are made to Frams standards, is to do a cut-a-way of one. If it is glued together, w/cardboard on both ends, don't use it, that's the way Frams are made. One would imagine that over time the cardboard gets soggy w/the oil, and w/the oil pressure in the engine, could disintegrate, which they have been known to do. You might be able to find a cut-a-way of a Honda filter on the net. The BOBISTHEOILGUY site have done many brands. I don't know if they have done Honda's. Off course too, they could be pictures of older filters, and not up to date.

At least w/Honda, they would be responsible for any damage(s), while w/Fram, I'm not so sure. They'd fight it.

I'm still leery though of anything that Fram makes. Their name allown makes me think of junk.

[mtl_crv]

The cheap Fram filter is...Cheap. The Honda branded Fram isn't and dozens of people have cut them open and checked. Hondas that have had dealer service all their life and last for 300,000+ miles can't be wrong, can they?

Any links to photos of those Honeywell filters after the cutaway?

[jocal62]

Having read all the posts in this thread, and being a newbie, would it be just safe for me to conclude that instead of going to the Honda dealership and have them do my oil change, I'd be better off saving time and money by buying and getting the oil and oil filter from HandA and do it myself? Would or should that be my best solution?

Kindly enlighten me once and for all, as all these posts with their incredible amount of information is just confusing me more...

[Psyman42]

Having read all the posts in this thread, and being a newbie, would it be just safe for me to conclude that instead of going to the Honda dealership and have them do my oil change, I'd be better off saving time and money by buying and getting the oil and oil filter from HandA and do it myself? Would or should that be my best solution?

Kindly enlighten me once and for all, as all these posts with their incredible amount of information is just confusing me more...

definately do it yourself, it saves time and money, you know you'll be doing a good job on it (assuming you know what you're doing) and not some careless job like all other oil change places, and you get the feeling of accomplishment that you took care of your V

[rdorman]

If you are a DYI type of person, may I recommend Purolator Pure 1 filters. I did a fair amount of filter research a year or two back and they are one of the best and readily available.

[jocal62]

If you are a DYI type of person, may I recommend Purolator Pure 1 filters. I did a fair amount of filter research a year or two back and they are one of the best and readily available.

I try to be a DYI person, yes. :D

Would these be available in Vancouver BC Canada? Expensive, or reasonably priced? If they're not available here, what are my other alternatives? Are they actually better than Honda stock?

[rdorman]

I have not been able to find any tests on the Honda filters. According to the Purolator website they sell at UniSelect Auto Parts, Bestbuy auto parts, Auto Extra and McQuik lube outlets. The one for a '08 CR-V run $5.88 US at Advance Auto Parts.

[NSI31]

I have used Castrol (exclusively) in everything I have ever owned...(including Honda Gold-wings, big-block chevy's, etc)..and have never had a reason to believe that it was not an excellent lubricant.

Having inherited my wife's '07 that has had the oil changed regularly @ the dealership (and they use Pennzoil Synthetic), I am concerned about going back to regular Castrol....should I use Castrol Synthetic now?

[2RedV's]

I have used Castrol (exclusively) in everything I have ever owned...(including Honda Gold-wings, big-block chevy's, etc)..and have never had a reason to believe that it was not an excellent lubricant.

Having inherited my wife's '07 that has had the oil changed regularly @ the dealership (and they use Pennzoil Synthetic), I am concerned about going back to regular Castrol....should I use Castrol Synthetic now?It won't hurt a thing even if you switched back and forth with every oil change. I just wouldn't switch to a full synthetic on an older vehicle since the synthetic tends to seep past oil seals.

[Arcticf7ext]

I run Synthetic in my sled and going to in the CRV now.

While ordering my sled oil I order AMSOIL order full Synthetic and the Amsoil filter.

Just reading the thread, the slaes of Amsoil is a bit strange but I do like the product. I guess buying a Costco membership is also a little strange.

[2RedV's]

I run Synthetic in my sled and going to in the CRV now.

While ordering my sled oil I order AMSOIL order full Synthetic and the Amsoil filter.

Just reading the thread, the slaes of Amsoil is a bit strange but I do like the product. I guess buying a Costco membership is also a little strange.The issue I have with Amsoil is that the most ardent supporters of the product also sell the product. Of course they claim it is the best you can get. :rolleyes:

Dark side note: NEVER put Amsoil synthetic trans fluid in a Honda. If in doubt, search Amsoil transmission Honda failure (etc.) terms on google. If it isn't Honda ZL-1, don't put it in your auto trans!

[Arcticf7ext]

Thanks for tip 2RedV's. When it comes due for the transmission fluide I was going to do some reasech. I think it was mention (maybe by you) early in this thread about sticking with the Honda Trans fluide.

Awesome vehicle, just did the rear brakes at 111 Kms, and I'm extremely impressed on how nice it is to work on.

Great site.

[ajchien]

Re: filters

I've cut open the Honda 15400-PLM-A02 filter. The insides of it is identical to a Fram Extra Guard filter. It has the cardoboard endcaps etc. It was used for about 5K miles - the cardboard was saturated with oil, but it still seemed to hold up okay (i.e. I really had to jab at it with a screwdriver before I could poke a hole through the endcaps)

Sorry, I didnt take pictures - it was a few months ago.

[ajchien]

Here are pics of the Honda A02 filter:
Notice: made in Canada, by Honeywell
The second to last pic, The cardboard endcaps seemed to hold up pretty good, but I easily put a drill into the cardboard endcap by hand-poking it in and then turning it a few times to pull up some cardboard fibers.
Overall the filter looks like it held up pretty well. This was on dealer oil for 5000 miles.
please excuse some of the blue flakes, they were from cutting the can open.

My personal opinion is that the A02 and other fram variants should do well at 5000mi changes. Becuase of the anecdotal reports of fram failures though, I personally won't use it for much longer than 5k miles - and I probably won't put it in any "high performance car". I like the idea of the synthetic media filters like AMSOIL EaO, Mobil 1 EP, and Purolator PureOne, but havent really seen any evidence that they are any better in making a engine go 300k miles than any other cheaper filter.

[aia]

It won't hurt a thing even if you switched back and forth with every oil change. I just wouldn't switch to a full synthetic on an older vehicle since the synthetic tends to seep past oil seals.

Hi,
newbie here and sorry to hijack...

Can you please define "old"?

I have assumed control of the wife's '00 with 95K miles on it and I am considering going to synthetic.
Thanks,
aia

[Carbuff2]

Hi,


I have assumed control of the wife's '00 with 95K miles on it and I am considering going to synthetic.
Thanks,
aia

My advice is to try the synthetic. Your engine will not suffer and you will get longer change intervals.

If you start to notice leaks, either use a high-mileage synth oil (added seal conditioners) or go back to dino oil.

JMHO

[aia]

Not such a bad idea. Perhaps I'll start with a nigh mileage syn off the bat to avoid a potential leak and the cost of a refill.
thanks!