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05-02-2008, 06:36 PM
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Are we going to do this again?
Why is that you, and you alone are the 'voice of reason' RinconVTR? If all you are going to keep saying is that Honda USA says that it's their recommendation, then fine you've said it. So Honda US has made their recommendations. Thank you, I can read. I've read what they recommend. I can also choose not to follow them. It's my choice. We've heard you repeating the same mantra over and over again, and done little else but ridicule everyone else's post on the topic. The only constant in your tirades is you. Have you not noticed that anyone actually agrees with you? Or supports your opinion? Fine. Enough is enough. If YOU cannot provide worthwhile advise (other than what you have already stated) then kindly keep it to yourself. You are not doing anyone here a service. It has gotten to the point that no one else can post without being blasted by you. Last edited by Tim Vance : 05-04-2008 at 09:03 PM. 
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05-04-2008, 07:37 AM
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I guess everyone should have more closely followed Ford's recommendations on tire pressure in the Ford Explorer? That was certainly wrong.
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99 V 151k miles, 04 V 62k miles - Both red, of course.
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05-04-2008, 08:47 AM
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Interesting Thread!
I am going to put on my kevlar vest and riot helmet and only mention this:
From page 245 of the 07 owner's manual: "Load Limits Total Trailer Weight: The maximum allowable weight of the trailer and everything in or on it must not exceed 1,500 lbs. (680 Kg). Towing a load that is too heavy can seriously affect your vehicles handling and performance. It can also damage the engine and drivetrain." I don't tow nothing and really have no interest in this thread other than to enjoy the fireworks, however, if you read the above statement, you are putting yourself at grand legal risk if you were to exceed the weight and get into an accident. Facing manslaughter charges though negligeance is a far worse fate than simply being found at fault for accident. There is not a prosecutor or tort lawyer in the land that wouldn't have a field day with the above statement. The quoted passage is not a recommendation, it is a load restriction imposed on the vehicle by the manufacturer. I would advise extreme caution regarding the arguments being presented here.
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“Being Irish he had an abiding sense of tragedy which sustained him through temporary periods of joy.” W. B. Yeats "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
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05-04-2008, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
"Honda requires that any trailer with a total weight of 1,000 lbs (455 kg) or more be equipped with its own electric or surge-type brakes. If you choose electric brakes, be sure they are electronically actuated. Do not attempt to tap into your vehicle’s hydraulic system. No matter how successful it may seem, any attempt to attach trailer brakes to your vehicles hydraulic system will lower braking effectiveness and create a potential hazard. See your trailer dealer or rental agency for more information on installing electric brakes."
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05-04-2008, 05:11 PM
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Hmmm! I should not have stopped on page 245.
Well the above quoted material makes for some interesting fodder in this argument. It is on page 247 under Trailer Brakes.
Thanks for posting this information.
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“Being Irish he had an abiding sense of tragedy which sustained him through temporary periods of joy.” W. B. Yeats "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
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05-04-2008, 09:01 PM
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Thanks Black Pearl. My manual say 'should not', but, IMO it's semantics...
The disagreement is on what Honda US is basing their 'restriction' on. Honda US has consistently understated the towing capacity of the CRV and Element in the US, and refuses to say why. The same vehicles in other parts of the world have higher stated towing ratings. As far as the fear mongering goes - we are all adults in a free society. I have the right to make my own decisions, based upon my experience, and all information available to me. For anyone to suggest that I will be charged or sued, because I tow a trailer that is heavier than the manufactures rating is simply wrong. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. I do this for a living. There is not a cop in North America that can charge me with this offense, because it simply does not exist. (DMV.ORG - The Unofficial Guide to the DMV) I can be charged for exceeding the weight class of my license - having a vehicle/towed vehicle combination that exceeds 26,000 lbs (not likely with any Honda vehicle) if I only have a 'regular' drivers license. I also cannot drive a vehicle so loaded, either with property or people, that I cannot control it, see ahead, or to the sides of my vehicle. I also cannot carry anything in or on a passenger vehicle which extends beyond the fenders on the left side or more than six inches beyond the fenders on the right side. A load extending more than four feet from the back of the vehicle must display a 12-inch red or fluorescent orange square flag or two red lights at night. So, if I overload my trailer, and can't control it, then I can be charged with Dangerous Driving - not having proper care and control of my vehicle. If I overload my vehicle, and cause an accident, then I can be charged with Careless Driving - not having proper care and control, resulting in property damage or bodily injury. So yes Black Pearl, you are partially correct - it's not a good thing to be in an accident, regardless of whether or not you are towing a trailer - but you would be just as liable, if you didn't have a trailer, had an empty trailer, or an improperly loaded trailer, and you caused the accident! Now, and here's the big proviso - I have never said for anyone to disregard Honda's warnings or ratings! I have simply questioned what they are basing their ratings on. I have been to 2 separate Honda Manufacturing Facilities, and taken tours of both. I have spoken to Honda's design engineers, and they won't say why Honda North America has different ratings, other than it's a Corporate decision. I won't go into that... What I have said, is that as a reasonably intelligent person, who has done my research, and done extensive personal testing with many different trailers and weight combinations, and with many years of experience, I am perfectly comfortable towing my 2000lb trailer. I operate my vehicle responsibly, with due consideration for what I am doing, and have never caused an accident ( I have been hit 3 times, in over 27 years of driving, but only minor fender benders). All I am saying, is that ppl have the right to hear from other ppls experience, do their own research, and make their own decisions. I object to being flamed for expressing an opinion that differs from someone else's. I won't be censored by intimidation. Last edited by Tim Vance : 05-04-2008 at 09:07 PM.
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05-04-2008, 09:50 PM
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Interesting Post!
Obviously, you have done your research. Again, I have no interest in this thread other than enjoying the fireworks, and I really have no interest in becoming a beligerant in this particular battle. I fully agree that it is doubtful that a cop will ever stop someone because a trailer is overloaded, unless fearfully so. However that was not my point. My point is that if you were involved in an accident, and heaven forbid, there was a fatality you could be putting yourself in legal and civil jeopardy by having a trailer loaded beyond the maximum load capacity stated by the manufacturer. You may not even be the cause of the accident, but if your trailer is the cause of the fatality or serious injury you could be in dire difficulties.
In my manual there is no nicety recommendation. It is stated quite bluntly as a restriction. I didn't quote the warning box immediately prior to the load limit but it speaks of death and serious injury. Fear mongering perhaps, but I am certain that a lawyer would lick his chops. I can't address why Honda down rates the capacity but if I was a betting man it is to reduce liability in a society geared to litagation. I don't believe that you are accusing me, but just to make it clear, I did not flame nor censor you. The only thing that I would like to point out is that while it may be perfectly safe to tow up to some given amount, (and I am not agreeing that it is nor disagreeing--frankly I don't care) one is putting themselves at risk legally if an accident occurs. Prosecutors and tort lawyers do not seek justice, they seek to win. Again I would advise caution to all regarding these arguments.
__________________
“Being Irish he had an abiding sense of tragedy which sustained him through temporary periods of joy.” W. B. Yeats "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell Last edited by Black Pearl : 05-05-2008 at 10:30 AM.
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05-06-2008, 08:11 PM
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I feel you've hit the nail on the head Blackpearl! (and no, I'm definitely not directing anything towards you
 )Everyone who can read between the lines can plainly see that the only reason Honda understates the tow ratings on their vehicles in North America is because they are afraid of someone suing them for what is clearly their own responsibility, or getting pulled into a lawsuit because someone 'can't read what's written in the manual'. (does this remind anyone as to why there are warnings on coffee cups - 'Caution, contents may be hot' ???) To put a fine point to it though, one of my points is that legally there is nothing stopping you from exceeding a manufactures load ratings for a vehicle or trailer. The Highway Traffic Act is actually pretty specific in regards to maximum load ratings, but they specifically pertain to max weight per axle, not the load rating of a vehicle or trailer. But, and as you pointed out Blackpearl, there are actually two buts: 1. You are legally responsible for any damages resulting from an accident you caused, and 2. You can be guaranteed you will get your butt sued big time, (in addition to any charges the legal authorities may bring against you) not only for causing the accident, but if it's determined that your trailer was even 1lb over manufactures ratings, or you exceeded your vehicles tow rating, or didn't inflate your tires to the correct pressure, or haven't changed your oil according to manufactures specs, etc etc, then you are giving a lawyer (retained by anyone else involved in the accident) more rope to hang you with... So, my advise to all of you, sitting on the fence, trying to decide if you really should pull that 1600 lb trailer with your CRV.... Do your research. Judge your abilities. Experiment. Search your soul. And make your own informed decision. Last edited by Tim Vance : 05-06-2008 at 08:18 PM.
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05-08-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Logical, and good realistic advice. Not sure why I've been bashed me so much, but whatever. Relax guys...this IS a INTERNET forum. Good advice and bad advice is always present! BlackPearl, best posts of the entire thread. I am going to add something from the Honda manuals which someone else posted about trailer brakes. Here are additional quotes from Honda OEM manuals: "The maximum allowable weight of the trailer and everything in or on it must not exceed 1,500 lbs." Yep...ok....got it....everyone’s seen that enough. HOWEVER! The 1500 rating does NOT have an "*" stating the rating is only good with trailer brakes in the manual NOR is it stated or shown on their very own web site under "specifications". You'll also see the CR-V's rating posted in many articles and various auto web sites, without mention of trailer brakes. Honda separately and on different pages of the manual (really sneaky if you ask me) says they "require" trailer brakes for towing over 1,000 lbs. They make this blanket statement on most of their models. I believe the Pilot and Ridgeline are the exceptions. No where does it state the CR-V's rating is 1,000 & 1,500 with trailer brakes. It's sort of can or worms in itself. So, IMO, if anything is overkill and anti-law suit, its the statement about brakes for any 1k+ trailer. Because realistically, its VERY uncommon to add brakes to a 1,000-1,500 capacity trailer, with exception to very few states law. I think, and it seems that in most cases, this (purposely made separate) "requirement" in the manual has been disregarded by many in the industry. For the record...I'm not arguing anything. Each point was clearly stated in quotes or clearly IMO.
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