Trouble Identifying High Speed Brake/Wheel Vibration
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Thread: Trouble Identifying High Speed Brake/Wheel Vibration

  1. #1
    crv|oc Rank: Member
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    Trouble Identifying High Speed Brake/Wheel Vibration

    Vehicle is my fiance's 2009 CR-V EX-L AWD w/nav and about 160-170k on the odo (mostly all highway for the last 80-100k).

    Current issue: Strong vibration at highway speeds, felt heavily in wheel but also elsewhere. Vibration occurs during braking, but does not occur if only parking brake is applied. Seems to be ever so slightly worse when turning and braking at the same time, but not sure if that's in my head. More pressure on the pedal produces more violent vibration.

    We've replaced the following items in the last 3-6 months (definitely not all related to this vibration issue):

    Rear:
    - new pad (done by myself when I discovered Firestone didn't do it)
    - new rotors (done by myself when I discovered Firestone didn't do it)
    - new OEM caliper pins/boots/grease (done by myself when I discovered Firestone didn't do it)
    - new OEM misc hardware for the calipers (done by myself when I discovered Firestone didn't do it)
    - new tires mounted/balanced (done by Firestone)
    - rear end alignment (done by local Shell)

    Front:
    - new pads (done by Firestone)
    - turned rotors (done by Firestone)
    - new tires mounted/balanced (done by Firestone)
    - front end alignment (done by local Shell)

    So the last new parts on the vehicle were the tires, ordered from Tirerack and mounted/balanced at Firestone. The tires needed to go regardless, because the old ones were dry-rotted. But she was having vibrations at highway speeds, so I was thinking maybe they were also out of balance. It turns out this made only minimal difference, and now the vibration is simply only noticeable when braking, whereas previously there was some vibration at highway speeds all the time. BTW I didn't just blindly assume it was tires; I obviously did some diagnostics first. But to put things into perspective, we had literally just had the front rotors turned maybe 2-3 weeks prior to this point, so warped rotors was the LAST thing I was thinking it could be. I still haven't gauged them or had anyone look at the rotors yet, but I did run my fingers across the surface and do a visual inspection of thickness.

    Due to all the recent brake work that's been done and a still persistent vibration, I've been wondering if this is suspension and/or steering related. I'd suspected this before, so we had the alignment done but I asked my fiance to ask the shop (Shell) to inspect the ball joints and bushings prior to doing the alignment. First of all, they laughed at her, which pissed me off. But besides that they claimed everything was fine with the ball joints and bushings and just did the alignment.

    I got a chance to get under the car today, and I don't know if I would say everything is "fine" per se. I didn't feel any play at 12 & 6 or 3 & 9, though there might have been a little click with the crowbar under the tire (hard to say cause I was prying against a crappy Baltimore street). I took the wheel off, and inspected the ball joints, a few bushings, tie rods, stabilizer link, etc.
    Most of the boots are cracked to some degree, which I know isn't necessarily urgent. But the front driver lower ball joint looks a bit distorted/twisted. It's also very easy to rotate the tie rods, though their boots again just show some typical cracking. I only did a visual on the passenger side with car on ground, but it looked about the same, except for a wet/greasy/oily boot around the inside tie rod (is that even a big deal?).

    I posted a few videos and photos to Flickr. They're a little slow to upload, but most are there as of this posting. Sorry for the heavy breathing. It's a sensitive mic. I swear I'm not THAT fat!

    https://flic.kr/s/aHsmzPV69B

    So does this seem like it could be steering and/or suspension related? Could there be something else causing this vibration at high speed when braking? I googled hard, and couldn't come up with much besides warped rotor info. Am I crazy for thinking it's something besides the rotors? The fronts are so damn expensive, otherwise I'd just replace them and call it a day. Could binding caliper pins or seizing caliper cylinders cause this kind of vibration by chance? Haven't seen any indication of excess heat or dragging of pads though...

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  3. #2
    Everything in Moderation Carbuff2's Avatar
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    You have done some good troubleshooting. To confirm: Happens under braking ONLY, or also when cruising?


    Did ANY of the work change the symptoms a little bit? Did the issues go away then come back?



    Could you have a bent front wheel (or multiple bent wheels). Have you had them measured for run out? Did the Firestone do a regular balance, or Road-Force balance (preferred)?

    I would check the run-out of the rotors though. If there is dirt at the rotor/hub interface they could be out of true. (On the '06 the spec is 0.004" but I could feel a pulsation with less)

    If the pads they used were 'cheap' you could be the victim of Pad Redeposits.
    https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedia...c-8-2018_1.pdf
    Atwell "Buff" Haines
    '06 AWD CR-V, 5 speed MT!
    '19 HR-V EX

    North NJ

    Birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you live.



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  5. #3
    crv|oc Rank: Freshman
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    Yes you need to check run out -harbour freight sells an inexpensive clamp on dial indicator that works ok-just clamp to suspension with dial against rotor/hub or whatever you are checking and slowly rotate by hand, also I had a front brake caliper that was slightly dragging and causing similar problems-found it just by checking relative temperatures between 2 front brake rotors after short drive

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    crv|oc Rank: Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat20 View Post
    Yes you need to check run out -harbour freight sells an inexpensive clamp on dial indicator that works ok-just clamp to suspension with dial against rotor/hub or whatever you are checking and slowly rotate by hand, also I had a front brake caliper that was slightly dragging and causing similar problems-found it just by checking relative temperatures between 2 front brake rotors after short drive
    So there's really nothing else this could be? Should i be pissed about paying for turned rotors? Do you think they didn't actually turn them?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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    crv|oc Rank: Silver
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    You should be able to see visually if the rotors have been turned. The surface should look very uniform and even and not shiny if you haven't driven far with them since turning.
    I recently found out I had a separated tire on my Accord. Not a bad vibration but enough so that on what I knew was a smooth road I could feel it. Being as it was on the back it didn't effect steering or braking.
    You might double check the tires for out of roundness. It happens.
    2013 EX FWD 5AT - Mountain Air Metallic (HER's)-Now on Michelin Defender H+T's
    2011 Accord Coupe V-6 EX-L w/NAV 5AT full HFP treatment installed at the factory (Honda Corp was 1st owner) Taffeta White (wife won't even ride in it now that we have the CR-V)

    2002 Accord V-6 EX-L 4-dr Taffeta White (sold)
    2000 Ody EX Granite Green Metallic (sold)
    1983 Accord EX 4-dr 5-spd Metallic Grey (sold)
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    (and at least 3 others that the kids have owned)

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    Everything in Moderation Carbuff2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20CRVEX13 View Post
    You might double check the tires for out of roundness. It happens.
    True.

    A good road force balancer can identify either wheel or tire as being out-of-round. The tire could then be re-oriented to minimize the situation...then the RF balancing will help too.

    https://www.hunter.com/wheel-balancers/road-force-elite

    Regards turned rotors: As I said, you could have a perfectly true rotor off-car, but a bit of grit between the rotor & hub can cause it to be 'un-true'.

    Our favorite Honda specialty shop uses a lathing machine that does it right on the car!
    Atwell "Buff" Haines
    '06 AWD CR-V, 5 speed MT!
    '19 HR-V EX

    North NJ

    Birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you live.



  10. #7
    crv|oc Rank: Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20CRVEX13 View Post
    You should be able to see visually if the rotors have been turned. The surface should look very uniform and even and not shiny if you haven't driven far with them since turning.
    I recently found out I had a separated tire on my Accord. Not a bad vibration but enough so that on what I knew was a smooth road I could feel it. Being as it was on the back it didn't effect steering or braking.
    You might double check the tires for out of roundness. It happens.
    Problem is my fiance drives 97 miles a day for work, so chances are it's far too late to check the rotors.

    As far as tires being out of round, can that happen on brand new tires? These are 4 brand new Goodyear Assurance Weatherready SL which were delivered to Firestone on 2/4/19 and mounted/balanced either same day or within a day or two of that date. She works from home at least 1 day a week, so that means they got about 7x4x97=2716 miles >> say 3k miles on them. I got her car today (she's got my 5.7 WK2 ). It seems to be shaking even in the 30-40mph range now a little.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  11. #8
    crv|oc Rank: Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbuff2 View Post
    True.

    A good road force balancer can identify either wheel or tire as being out-of-round. The tire could then be re-oriented to minimize the situation...then the RF balancing will help too.

    https://www.hunter.com/wheel-balancers/road-force-elite

    Regards turned rotors: As I said, you could have a perfectly true rotor off-car, but a bit of grit between the rotor & hub can cause it to be 'un-true'.

    Our favorite Honda specialty shop uses a lathing machine that does it right on the car!
    Tirerack lists this Firestone as having a road force balancer. I just assumed it was their only balancer. Should I have confirmed?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  12. #9
    crv|oc Rank: Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbuff2 View Post
    True.

    A good road force balancer can identify either wheel or tire as being out-of-round. The tire could then be re-oriented to minimize the situation...then the RF balancing will help too.

    https://www.hunter.com/wheel-balancers/road-force-elite

    Regards turned rotors: As I said, you could have a perfectly true rotor off-car, but a bit of grit between the rotor & hub can cause it to be 'un-true'.

    Our favorite Honda specialty shop uses a lathing machine that does it right on the car!
    I guess i should have taken a look at the screws holding the rotors on for evidence of recent tooling marks. That might at least confirm whether they were turned on car or off (or not at all).

    Though if you all really think it's just rotors, I'll just replace the damn rotors and be done with it. Just don't want to throw money at this thing, especially after having just paid to turn them.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  13. #10
    Everything in Moderation Carbuff2's Avatar
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    Don't 'shotgun' the issue with more parts. Have the car checked out using the suggestions above.



    I would think that the Firestone would stand by their work (and parts) when you visit if you are getting vibrations. Call them now and set up an appointment.




    PS: I've had tire store monkeys not road-force balance tires correctly. They are always under time pressure...
    Atwell "Buff" Haines
    '06 AWD CR-V, 5 speed MT!
    '19 HR-V EX

    North NJ

    Birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you live.



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