Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This just started two days ago. Temperature at night was only about 40 or so. I could get it started after about 8-10 cranks and it would run on maybe two or three cylinders. It would do that for a bout 30 seconds then fire on all four and run NORMAL. I could smell fuel while cranking.

Had codes checked out and got CAT LOW EFFICIENCY or something similar. He thought the cat was plugged, I think its just a result of the real issue.

Plugs, wires, cap and rotor, fuel filter, battery have been changed 6 months ago. Just put new plugs in it again for fun.

Proceeded to start car yesterday, same issue. Replaced engine coolant temp sensor and it fired up after a brief stumble. Let car cool for four hours and restarted perfectly. Now this morning after a 32* night, the problem is back.

I have not checked fuel pressure yet. I am going to try starter fluid to see if its a fuel or spark issue.

Any suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,353 Posts
Was anything done before this happened? I would suggest to use carburetor cleaner or throttle body cleaner than starting fluid as its not for the engine. When you changed all of those parts 6 months ago did you had any problems? It could be the coil is going bad or igniter is going bad. You could have a weak spark, especially when the engine is cold. The spark should be blue not orange. Let me know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,916 Posts
A similar problem was solved by replacing the ignition coil. Before starting the crv, I had to disconnect the fuel pump relay because it would flood due to a super weak spark and disconnecting the relay and then cranking it at wide open throttle would finally get it started.
You can test the ignition coil with an ohmmeter and if it is even slightly out of specs, it would be wise to replace it.
If you try to test for a strong spark by cranking the engine over, be sure that disconnected spark plug wire is within 1/8" in of a ground or you can short out a good working coil.
Read the info in this link: http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/honda/2.4L/how-to-test-the-honda-cop-coils-1
Buffalo4
PS: Also using NGK 4291 ZFR6F-11 V-Power Plug seems to work best in the gen 1 crvs. Many report problems using any Bosch spark plugs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ngk plugs, I don't remember the number though. I sprayed maf cleaner in the TB today while cranking and it didn't seem to help, but it did start better than this morning. However it misfired at all rpms for about 5 minutes and blew out some nasty smoke.

I checked spark and it seemed a little weak. Yellow not blue. Coil sounds like a good idea, I'm going to try testing it first. Then it will be a week till I get one. 25 bucks online vs 70 at parts store.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Nothing was done before problem started. Parts previously changed were just tune up. It's a mail delivery vehicle so we try to keep it reliable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,916 Posts
Remember, that if the person who changed the dist cap and rotor cranked the engine over using the starter with the cap off (even a little to get the rotor screw in the proper position) without pulling the correct fuse or disconnecting the low voltage connection to the dist, they 'might' have caused the ignition coil to internally short itself.
Please read the entire article in the link I previously posted.
Buffalo4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
Have you had your valves adjusted ever? I try and put a can of Sea Foam into the gas tank when I know I am going to take a long drive. The stuff is great at cleaning out a fuel system. Still this sounds like something a bit different. Strange that it corrects itself. If your fuel mixture is proper and sparks are getting to your cylinders during start up, things shouldn't take nearly as many cranks. I would get to the bottom of things in the ignition sequence or fuel mixture. That or be prepared to replace your starter with that much cranking.

Buffalo4 knows cold Winters, as do I. Things are getting real now so you want this fixed ASAP.


What shall we have? An '82 Margaux! Is it any good? Good....?, It will make you believe in God!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well the coil tested bad. I replaced it, started great. In the morning, low and behold....won't start.

One or two cylinders are firing. This is only a morning problem, either due to cold or moisture is my guess. It does not appear to be a stuck injector.

I will try to start it mid day and see if there is a change, then tonight I'm going to look for stray spark. Perhaps this newish distributor cap has a crack......

I am out of ideas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,916 Posts
Checking it in the dark with the motor running and misting water on the cap and wires is a good idea to see any sparks.
Some times when the coil goes bad, the ignitor fails shortly afterwards.
The other known problem is a worn out (bushings, etc) distributor, but that usually is indicated by mis-fires for some time.
The NGK spark plugs that seem to be best in your yr CRV is the NGK 4291 ZFR6F-11 V-Power Plug. It is pretty low cost also, around $2/plug.
How about your fuel filter? On the firewall and easy to replace.
Try some Chevron Techron Concentrate or SeaFoam in your gas. Perhaps you have bad gas or water in it.
Next would be valve adj and a compression test.

Buffalo4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yea I'll check spark in the dark. The cap is only 9 months old but that doesn't mean anything.
What are the symptoms of bad igniter?
Fuel filter has been done.
It doesn't start any better with ether so I'm sure it's a spark issue.
It wouldn't start this morning. I tried it mid day and it started better but took 5 cranks.

Fired up on cyl 1 and 2. Then 3 kicked in after a minute and 4 followed soon after with a real high idle and then settling into a light misfiring state.

It did seem like bad fuel at first or water but ether rules that out.....unless the plugs are fouling. Hmmmmmm maybe I will crank it once in morning then pull some plugs. I wonder if coolant is getting in the cylinder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I have not checked valves. I used to live north of Buffalo. Now live in northern michigan and it gets darn cold here. My tahoe is always reliable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,916 Posts
Look at the NGK plug numbers when you pull one out.
Best of luck.
Even a new coil can short itself out internally ( and quit or get real weak) if the engine was cranked (using the starter) with any spark plug wire not grounded or with the distributor cap off: unless the power to the distributor was disconnected at the connector or the ignition fuse was pulled.
It can be very difficult to diagnose a failing ignitor.
Adj the valves may be needed, but I seriously doubt it could be causing your problem.
Buffaol4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Plugs are ZFR6F-11. I verified failure to start this morning and then replaced cap and rotor. It fired right up but had a miss. Guess I'll see what happens tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the help, I appreciated it. It has been suggested by two guys that it could be the catalytic converter. I don't see how in this situation but its a remote possibility I suppose. No emissions here in MI......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,916 Posts
Good on the spark plug numbers and brand. :)
I seriously doubt the cat could cause your starting problem.
Many times the ignitor will fail after it gets hot, but that is not a given. 'Usually', when it fails, there is no spark at all.
Remember, using the starter to crank the engine over to get the rotor screw in the proper position to access it without disconnecting the power to the distributor can cause even a new coil to internally short itself, since the spark has no where to go. The Honda coils are known to do that.
If the coil resistance checks out OK, I would strongly suspect the ignitor (Ignition Control Module).
Look up on how to 'safely' test for a proper spark. If it is OK, you have basically eliminated the ignition coil itself.
Only other thing I can think of is the ignition switch (jiggle it) or the Neutral Safety Switch. Next time it won't start, put it in Neutral and try it again.
Did you check out my links in Post #10? Good info.
Buffalo4
PS: Did you ever try the water misting in a dark area? Have you pulled a spark plug after it failed to start to see if it was wet?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I would take a good long drive with some sea foam and get the tank down to almost empty. Refill with good gas, as in fresh and replace that fuel filter. That will eliminate fuel source for certain. My Jeep and previous Envoy always did good even in the crappiest weather. The wife's V sits in the garage during Winter. I never let the tank drop below one quarter as the top of the fuel can have nasty stuff in it. During Winter ice and snow I just don't want to chance it.

When you pulled your plug did you see any black residue on the ring at the bottom or on the threads. If so your fuel is running too rich or you need more air or more exhaust flow. Big signs of valves needing adjusting. I know my daughters 2005 V needs that last cylinder exhaust valve adjusted but will wait until next Spring. We have out almost $2500 into it this Fall and it's running great. The valves will be done in Spring along with rear suspension. Best of luck up there in Michigan. Good wines from the Traverse City area Eastwards towards Lake Michigan.


"What should we start with?"
"An '82 Margaux."
"Is it good?"
"Good? It will make you believe in God!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
I had a similar issue but mine would not even start and had no spark. Maybe this could help. I just bought a 1999 CRV for my daughter in college. It ran great but I wanted to do a compression test and vale adjustment before I drove a few hours to drop it off for her. I get done doing the work and low and behold, no spark / no start. I have a shop manual and did every test regarding the coil, ignitor and sensors and that all checked out. I even brought the old coil to the parts store and checked it with a brand now one and the resistance was exactly the same. Not wanting to buy a part that I couldn't return I went back home and hopped online and found another simple test to check if a new coil is needed or a new ignitor is needed. 1. Turn the ignition switch ON (II), and watch the MIL

(malfunction indicator lamp).
If the MIL doesn't come on, or it comes on and

stays on, refer to MIL Basics on this page.
If the MIL comes on for two seconds and then goes

off, go to step 2.

2. Check for battery voltage at the positive wire going

to the coil, and at the positive wire going to the ICM.
If you have battery voltage, go to step 3.
If you don't have battery voltage, check for an

open between the ignition switch, the ICM, and the

coil.

3. Connect a voltmeter between the coil negative terminal

and ground, and record the cranking voltage two ways:

first with the wire between the coil and ICM connected,

then with it disconnected.
If you get about 8 V with the wire connected and

10 V with it disconnected, install a new coil, and

retest.
If you get about 10 V with the wire connected and

disconnected, install a new ICM, and retest.
. When I tested mine if fluctuated between 8.4 - 9.4 when connected and 10 when not connected. I replaced the coil and it fired right up.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top