2001 4WD AT - Did my timing belt snap?

7234 Views 20 Replies 7 Participants Last post by JustinRRizzo, Apr 11, 2020

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · Mar 2, 2020

Bought the car with 110k on it, it's current sitting at 135k. PO said the timing was changed around 80k (probably not true).

The car had been idling poorly at startup, and would occasionally die shortly after starting, and sometimes even after warmed up when at low speeds (stop signs, red lights, etc).

It happened form time to time, but it always restarted and we just dealt with it. On the way home from the pub last week it died immediately after accelerating off a stop sign and would not restart.

Fuel pump primes, no spark at plugs or coil. The rotor on the dist cap is not spinning when I crank the motor, so I can't get it properly orientated to remove the cover to check the ignitor. The face that the rotor isn't spinning is leading me to believe the TB is broke. I really don't want to get balls deep into removing the TB cover to determine if it snapped. Is there a shortcut check method? Unless there is something unique to these Honda engines, my thinking is that rotor should spin when I crank if the TB is intact.

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1 - 20 of 21 Posts

hondapro

· #2 · Mar 2, 2020

take the oil fill cap off you should be able to see some of the rocker arms thru the fill hole,have someone crank it over while you are watching the rocker arms. you should see them move if they are not the belt is broken

hondapro

· #3 · Mar 2, 2020

You are also correct the rotor should turn also

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 2, 2020

Well shit. Could anything else cause that rotor to not spin?

What are the chances my valves are not damaged?

hondapro

· #5 · Mar 2, 2020

Only if the gear on the bottom of the dist. or the camshaft is broken, Both are highly unlikely.
If the timing belt is broken you most likely have valve damage.The only way to know for sure is to preform a cylinder leak test

Buffalo4

· #6 · Mar 2, 2020

JustinRRizzo said:
Well shit. Could anything else cause that rotor to not spin?

What are the chances my valves are not damaged?

Did you see any movement while looking into the valve cover oil fill hole with the engine cranking over?
If there was no movement, it sure indicates a broken timing belt.
No damage to valves is possible, but the odds are against it.

Buffalo4

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 6, 2020

I saw no movement. Pulling the valve cover off today. Gonna take a peek.

98MichaelCRV

· #8 · Mar 8, 2020 (Edited)

Looks like you found your problem, but FYI My 98 was rough idling and I replaced the full distributor unit at 125,000 miles ($$$), the mechanic said this is common for the CRV (?) but the 'wandering' idle was fixed.

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 8, 2020 (Edited)

What's the consensus on parts? I'm not doing OEM, it's too expensive. What's a good middle ground? I'm avoiding gates.

Looking at Dayco, Aisin and Nitoma.

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 12, 2020 (Edited)

Ok, it turns out the belt is not broken. It does seem to have less tension than I would expect, but it's been 15 years since I've changed a TB. For reference sake, my belt appears to be nearly as loose as his was after he loosed his TB tension (I time stamped the video).

My crank pulley lines up with the mark on the TB shield (rotated counter clockwise), but I am unanble to drop a screwdriver through the "E1 Holes" to lock the cams. The holes on the cams them selves are rotated away from the E1 hole. The top hole can be seen (red arrows) to be 90 degrees off, while the bottom hole is a full 180 degress off.

What does this mean? Did my belt jump a few teeth and get the cams out of sync? If so, what's my next step to get everything in line so I can start the motor and "test" for bent valves?

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ms3224a

· #11 · Mar 13, 2020 (Edited)

If you have the room, push the belts off of the sprockets on the cams, then you should be able to rotate the cams. It's probably out of sync anyhow, so you'd be removing the belt regardless.

Aisin makes well-regarded timing belt/water pump kits for the k24a* series so I imagine you'd be ok with their stuff. I had to replace the water pump on my '07 Accord with the k24a8 engine and the Aisin was basically 100% the same as the one I took off, except it didn't have the "Honda" mark on it.

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 13, 2020

If the crank pulley lines up with the mark on the TB shield and I rotate the sprockets so they say "UP" and allow a screwdriver to be dropped through the "E1" hole, will that suffice for Top Dead Center?

ms3224a

· #13 · Mar 13, 2020

I don't know, I've never done a timing belt job.

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #14 · Mar 14, 2020

Ok. Well if anyone else could chime in. I really just need to know how to get the cams at TDC. Do I just use ensure they are in the "UP" position and align the marks?

Lochinvar

· #15 · Mar 16, 2020

The up marks should point up when cylinder 1 is at tdc compression, and down when cylinder 4 is at tdc compression (the crankshaft will be at the same position for both). If your exhaust camshaft is 180 degrees off (how your description sounds), it is probably correct, don't mess with it. I would turn the intake camshaft to match the exhaust, put the belt back on, and rotate the crankshaft 1 turn to check timing.

Remember 1 turn of the camshaft=2 turns of the crankshaft.

The problem is that this is an interference engine, so you cannot turn any one shaft freely.

Also important... Get a repair manual before starting this repair. You will not be able to fix this without a manual.

An OE Honda shop manual is best, but the Haynes manual does have complete instructions for doing a thing belt service.

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 18, 2020

Got it all put together. Started up, but it's really rough and I can smell unburnt fuel. I think my cams are off a tooth or two.

Going to take the belt off and adjust the cams. If the cam sprockets are in the correct orientation (UP and distributor rotor pointing at #1), should I lock them into place with those pin holes before putting the belt on? I allowed them to move a bit to give me wiggle room for the belt, and this could have caused the current issue.

CRnotVtec

· #17 · Mar 19, 2020

Time everything up so the the "UP" marks are correct and the crankshaft mark matches the notch in the shield. Looking at the face of the cam gears (on the teeth), you should see a small little indent on both gears that absolutely needs to line up in a horizontal position.

If it's timed correctly, that small indent on the intake cam will be at the 9 o'clock position and on the exhaust cam at the 3 o'clock position making a solid line across the two cam gears. You may have to clean the faces as it can be hard to see sometimes. After you have it lined up, check the crank to make sure it's also in place.

Since you did the belt, I would check the valve lash as well. Could be the result of the rough running problem. If the engine was out of time, (one/two teeth) it would run smooth just lack power.

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 19, 2020 (Edited)

They were "horizontal", but they were a fraction off. One was perfectly horizontal, and one was a little off "level". That's how they were with the cams locked using the holes.

It doesn't matter now. The top right bolt of the water pump bolts broke inside the head. Already snapped two bits trying to drill it through so I can use a bolt extractor.

If I had a welder, I would just tack that thing on there and call it a day.

Looking like a new head. Damn. Does anyone know if the head bolts can be re-used (I'm reading that B engines did not use torque to yield /stretch bolts.)

CRnotVtec

· #19 · Mar 20, 2020

JustinRRizzo said:
Looking like a new head. Damn. Does anyone know if the head bolts can be re-used (I'm reading that B engines did not use torque to yield /stretch bolts.)

Still not that big a deal. These heads are fairly easy to remove. You can re-use the bolts as long as the engine didn't overheat, which would stretch the bolts.

Something else to aid your search, B18B heads are identical to the 97-01 CRV, excluding the cams. Although you can use the B18B cams, just have to adjust the valves to spec.

JustinRRizzo

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 11, 2020

Finally got a jimmy rig on the water pump put together. It's sealed well.

Got the TB on. Followed the instructions on the sheet provided with my kit (Aisin) and my Haynes manual:

1 - Push tensioner away from belt, tighten bolt
2 - Install belt over crank, tensioner, and pump
3 - Install over exhaust cam
4 - Ensure belt is taught between crank and exhaust cam
5 - Install belt over intake cam
6 - Loosen bolt on tensioner to allow tension, tighten bolt
7 - Check cam and crank marks (they were on the money)
8 - Rotate motor through 6 revolutions
9 - Re-check cam and crank marks

After that, here is what I get. The cams are not aligned. I've installed the belt twice, and both times this is what I get. I don't understand what the problem is.

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