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Seemed to be running fine, stopped for gas. After filling, the vehicle would not start, no crank, no dash lights, and the shifter was stuck in park. The keys work and the headlights can be turned on. Husband is ASE mechanic so I called for help. We thought it was the ignition switch, had it towed home. We figured out how to release the shifter so they could put it in neutral to get it off the truck. Tested the ignition switch and it's fine. Battery tests fine. However, fuse#20 under the hood was blown. He replaced the fuse, tried to start the car, and the fuse blew again before the starter even had a chance to crank. Tried again and got the same results.

At that point we figured it was a short in the electrical system, the weather is pretty darn cold here right now so we had it towed to the local Honda dealer. They sat on it for 2 days before doing anything at all. Then they called us and told us the starter wouldn't turn so they wanted to replace that first to the tune of $700+ for parts and labor. Since semi-retired husband now works at a parts store, the starter on the vehicle was not "Honda original parts" but is under warranty installed by same aforementioned ASE mechanic. So he offered to bring down another starter if they would return the one they had taken off, since he figured they had it all apart. First they refused to install a non-Honda original part. So I asked if they would just put the starter that they removed in a box in the back and we would come get the vehicle to tow back home. The tech said he did not remove the starter. He could have tested it with a remote starter switch I suppose but the starter had not been giving us any trouble...hmmmmm....

Since it is not a new vehicle (and we bought it used but it has a clean title) it has had a few problems in the 3 years we have owned it. We bought it with 95k miles and it now has 132k miles. While our daughter had it on the humid Gulf Coast while going to school for the last 2 years the vehicle would throw lots of codes...front bumper sensors, O2 sensor, check engine light (with various trouble codes) would be frequently, kinda the "code of the week" during our weekly phone calls. Local mechanics could not find any problems with things though we did replace the O2 sensor, transmission shift sensor, door lock control module, and the starter. Once we brought the car back to a very dry desert climate in June the vehicle never threw another code. The only other problems with the car seem to be unrelated. There's a rear window that does not function, the tailgate window mister does not work (probably a pump, haven't had a chance to look at it yet), and the dash light for "drive" doesn't light up when the car is in drive. And because she was in an extremely humid environment when the air bag recall came out, she was one of the first in line for a replacement. We've also checked the VIN against the ones listed for ignition switch problems and this one does not match up to that recall. The dealer also told us that they checked the VIN to known recalls and there are no other recalls for this car.

So we will go pick up the vehicle on Monday. Where would you suggest we start at this point? Hubby wants to test the starter himself as it was not a rebuilt, it was new. Not Honda, but new. Where would you guys start first? Anything that jumps out as to known TSBs? We'll report back as soon as we get the vehicle home and he tests the starter himself. What would cause the fuse to keep blowing?
 

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The #20 (20 A)fuse in the under the dash fuse/relay box is for: "Front wiper".
The #20 (50 A) fuse in the under the hood fuse/relay box is for: "Ignition 1".
So, I would guess she is talking about the 50 A ignition fuse.
I don't have an electrical diagram to see what different items that fuse feeds current and voltage to.
That 50 A fuse controls all that is not working.

Wow, wanting to throw a new starter in without even disconnecting it seems a little fishy,to me. If there is a direct short in the starter solenoid, that would instantly blow that 50 A fuse.

Suggestions:
1) Go to the Honda website http://owners.honda.com/service-maintenance/recalls and enter your VIN number to check the recalls yourself:

2)Disconnect the wires from the starter itself and see if the fuse still blows.That will take the starter itself out of the equation. If it doesn't, connect the little wire only and try again. If it now blows, the solenoid is probably shorting out.

3) Try to find an electrical diagram for that circuit for your yr CRV.

Hopefully someone here had that same problem and has the solution.

Buffalo4
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Buffalo4!

1. We have gone to the Honda website and verified no recalls besides airbag, which has already been addressed
2. Just got it towed back home this afternoon so we'll check out the starter and solenoid tomorrow...supposed to snow, ugh!
3. We have an electrical diagram (I guess we have a manual and more for everything in the garage!)

It's a little flaky at this point because husband went under the hood to try to evaluate starter when he got it home today. It does not appear that ANYTHING under the hood has been touched. The tech told us over the phone that he took off some accessories to try to turn the starter manually. Ya know, it's not exactly clean in there and it does not appear that anything was removed from the top or the bottom. So I'm feeling like they thought they were going to get $700+ out of us without even looking, just on the most likely issue...but not proving it. If it is as simple as the starter...good call, they got lucky. But we're not paying for anything unless you can prove your theory to us. And the tech even told us on the phone that the starter would just be the first step, we should expect other electrical issues needing to be addressed with additional diagnostic time and additional parts. That's a ton of $$$ and we would still be doing the starter at home since this Honda dealership would not deal with a non-Honda part replacement. We find that a bit odd because the parts store where husband works delivers parts to all of the Honda, Acura, Infiniti dealerships in the area and they all purchase aftermarket parts from his parts store. He personally delivers them and knows the techs. However this dealership is larger, we thought it would be a better resource for a probably electrical short diagnosis...NOT.

So for those who did not read the post closely...****fuse #20 under the hood***reads Ignition 1 in the manual

Husband says he is still doubting the starter (he didn't get manifold off before the snow started) because turning the key to "run" (ignition positions are lock-acc-run-start) causes the fuse to pop, before you even get to turning the starter. But he has a manifold gasket ordered and will take it off tomorrow to try disconnecting the wires first, and then try to turn the starter manually if needed. He's currently studying the wiring diagrams more closely to see if there's anything he's missing.
 

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Electrical issues are pretty much always process of elimination. Start with the easiest things to disconnect and pull them one at a time until you find the fault. Of course, 'easy' is a relative term because one of the suspects is the ignition switch itself. That circuit feeds several subcircuits each with their own fuse, but for the main 50A fuse to blow that indicates a serious short so in this case I would almost start upstream with the ignition switch and the wiring to it. From your husbands description, this occurs before the starter enters the circuit path. I would concur that you locate the electrical fault before disassembling anything to get to the starter, because you may find the starter is fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes TomKatt. He feels that the problem occurs before the starter is even enters the picture. But then we noticed last night that interior fuse #23 is also now blown. Is that a consequence of some testing at the dealership (he thinks he would have noticed it during his initial testing before taking it to the dealership) or is this part of the problem? Just another puzzle.

We already know that the ignition switch itself is fine. That was the first thing he tested. But the more time we spend online, there seems to be a problem with wiring in the column getting pinched and shorting as the column is adjusted by the driver. I can't say that I've ever seen our daughter, the primary driver, adjust the column but things happen. We can only hope that it is something easy like a starter. But thinking it's not going to be that easy.

More later today, after the rain stops!
 

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Just so everyone knows without having to look it up, fuse #23 (20A) in the under the dash fuse\relay box is for the "Front Left Power Window".
It basically takes a direct short to blow a 50 amp fuse (#20 in the Under the Hood fuse/relay box). Without that fuse blowing, some wires would most likely burn. So, whatever you do, don't jumper that fuse with a wire, etc for testing purposes :(
I don't know of any common connection between the two circuits, but that doesn't mean there isn't.
I guess it will have to be the process of elimination in finding that short. Look at all that is fed by that 50A circuit and start disconnecting items until you localize it.
Buffalo4
 

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starter-1.jpg
Not sure if you need this info - as I read where the intake was coming off, (this stops most people from trying to change their own starters on this vehicle) but here is a pic of a new starter I put on my ex's CR-V (2002) here you can see the 14 mm bolt on top and the 17mm bolt on the bottom. The 17mm requires a great deal of torque to remove ( I used a 1/2 ratchet with a small pipe (cheater) for the removal.

Changing this starter is lots of fun and I can't see how you can do this without the intake removal. I made a photo record of this in case I ever have to do this again. The symptoms were -turn the key and nothing happens, not even sorta'. I replaced the starter with a factory part as I do not wish to do this again soon if I can avoid it.
 

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View attachment 55689
Not sure if you need this info - as I read where the intake was coming off, (this stops most people from trying to change their own starters on this vehicle) but here is a pic of a new starter I put on my ex's CR-V (2002) here you can see the 14 mm bolt on top and the 17mm bolt on the bottom. The 17mm requires a great deal of torque to remove ( I used a 1/2 ratchet with a small pipe (cheater) for the removal.

Changing this starter is lots of fun and I can't see how you can do this without the intake removal. I made a photo record of this in case I ever have to do this again. The symptoms were -turn the key and nothing happens, not even sorta'. I replaced the starter with a factory part as I do not wish to do this again soon if I can avoid it.
Yup uptane, it's a job! Hubby has done worse though, the joys of having a certified mechanic in the house! So far the rain and snow have only allowed him to get about halfway through taking the intake off. Now we're at a standstill until next weekend and a few more days off to finish getting to the starter.

During initial diagnostics today taking out the fuel pump relay stopped the fuse from blowing, but yet no crank when the key is turned. So he's still heading towards the starter.
 
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