Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've got a 2005 CR-V 4WD SE, 180K miles. For the past year, I've been living with the nuisance of the transmission shifting harshly from 1st to 2nd gear, and only from 1st to 2nd gear. It clearly doesn't happen when the car is still cold, but once the A/T fluid warms up, it happens consistently. These are the only symptoms.

I can gently rev the engine and anticipate when the shift is supposed to happen, then letup on the gas to allow it to shift more smoothly/less abruptly. But that's not sustainable, especially if anyone else drives my car.

I've drained the ATF fluid based on Honda's recommended approach (drain and fill 3x) and with the Honda genuine ATF fluid. Symptoms have not changed. I am now contemplating replacing the solenoid valves (A/T Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve "A" and A/T Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve "B/C"), including the O-rings and gaskets. Also planning to cleaning out ATF joint pipes and screens.

Here are my questions about the approach:
1) What is the likelihood that the issue is really just the ATF joint pipes and screens having debris? I'm curious if others have found that cleaning these is all that is needed.
2) Do you agree with the following sequence based on your experience?
2.1​
If I am going to replace Clutch Pressure Control Solenoids, I am going to start with Valve "A" first. This one sits on top and does not require me to drain the ATF fluid from the transmission first. It also doesn't require me to remove the battery and battery tray to gain access.
2.2​
If replacing Valve "A" doesn't work, I will then focus on Valve "B/C". These require me to drain the ATF fluid first, so as not to make a mess when removing the part from the transmission housing.
3) Would anyone recommend replacing the Shift Solenoids Valves too? If so, which ones (A, B, C, D, E)? The Honda Cr-V service manual seems to indicate Valve E, but I'm not sure how that valve is involved in the shifting process between 1st gear and 2nd gear. It is in the Off position before and after so I would assume it's not involved. Would you agree?

Anyway, just hoping a transmission expert can shed some light. Also, what are the odds that the solenoids are not the issue and that there is an "internal spring" that is the issue. I've read that as well. Obviously, that would be a much more significant and costly repair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Update

Quick update. So far, I've tried a couple of different things and haven't resolved the issue:
1) Replaced the transmission fluid with Honda ATF DW-1 using the Honda recommended 3x fluid change approach.
2) Resistance Test of Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A - Result - Passed - In Spec
3) Electrical Test of Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A - Result - Seemed OK - Clicked properly when connected with leads to battery terminals
4) Cleaned Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A, ATF Pipes/Screens with brake cleaner and reinstalled

So far, the symptoms have not changed.
The car still experiences a harsh shift from 1st gear to 2nd gear after being warmed up.

Went to the Honda dealer today to discuss the issue and they stated that transmission issues are rare for the CR-Vs and that it could be anything. They didn't rule out faulty solenoid valves, but they also didn't indicate that there were any significant trends that they would suggest might be a good starting hypothesis. Checked on the price of Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A and B/C and they were significant ($800+ for both). So I'm going to proceed with testing them and cleaning them before I consider replacing.

Next step will be to focus on Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valves B/C. This step will require draining the transmission fluid first. Will report back with results in a few days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Update Part 2...

So after proceeding down the path of trying to remove the B/C Solenoid and testing, I opted to halt and have the dealership do it for me. My rationale? As I removed the battery and harness to gain better access to the solenoid, I realized I was going to have to do some of this work blindly as I could not see the bolts (there are 6). Plus, if I was able to remove the solenoid and discovered that it was faulty, I didn't have a replacement for it on hand.

Anyhow, I opted to play it safe and brought it over to a "trusted" dealer. However, I opted to order the parts myself from an online source for 30% less than the dealer price. Here are the related party numbers for your reference
28260-PRP-014 - Solenoid Assembly B, Linear
28262-PRP-000 - Gasket B, Linear Solenoid
91301-PC9-003 - O-Ring (7.7X2.3) (Arai) - need 4 of these

I brought these to the dealer and asked for them to replace the parts. Also asked that they clean the screens on the ATF pipes of any debris. Also, I asked for them to give me the old part so I could inspect and test it myself.

The result: Improved for sure, but still not 100% resolved. The frequency of harsh shifts from 1st to 2nd went way down. So, clearly there was some issue with the solenoid. But if I press hard on the accelerator or am going at a steep incline, the harsh shift is still there.

I've seen others post about resolving the problem by regapping the spark plugs as there may be some relationship with the ECM and it's auto-adjusting based on air/fuel ratio. I'm also curious if the A/F sensor (sometimes referred to as the foreward oxygen sensor) could be faulty and telling the computer to adjust the fuel ratio. I recently got a check engine light (CEL) and the root cause was the A/F sensor with a high voltage error. This could indicate a short or a bad A/F sensor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,731 Posts
I am disappointed that none of the very knowledgeable tranny folks here did not reply.
Some are also experts on the O2 sensors , etc.
Hopefully you will get some good advice shortly. :D
Buffalo4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,133 Posts
Faulty 02 sensor can cause I bit of a hard shift only because the ecm thinks the engine is pulling harder than it should. But a completely smooth shift under heavy load is also hard in a transmission so you should "feel" the shift.

But if the work you had done greatly improved the issue then it's likely in the transmission. Solenoids are only one part of a very complex system that determines shifting. When was the last time a transmission drain and fill was done? Was proper fluid used? Not a transmission flush as that will actually cause problems but a transmission drain and fill. What does the fluid look like?

A hard shift is caused by one of 2 things: too high of pressure or binding in the forward clutches (which can be caused by low pressures/high rpm).

It does take time after parts change for computer to relearn. Did you disconnect battery and let sit for at least 30 minutes prior to reconnect and driving? This is a MUST any time you replace any electronic part. Some also require a relearn procedure.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Tigris99... I ordered a replacement for the Air Fuel (A/F) Ratio Sensor, also known as the upstream O2 sensor. I suspect this sensor may have been faulty for quite some time, but not necessarily generating Check Engine codes consistently. Originally, I thought there was a gas cap issue, but perhaps it was this sensor all along.

In any event, I did not buy the Honda Genuine part online (Sensor, Laf - Honda (36531-PPA-003)) for $361, $527 list price from the dealer. I followed the advice of many others who have replaced their A/F sensor with the Denso 234-9064 Air Fuel Ratio Sensor ($80 on Amazon). The Denso part fits and works perfectly and since they are the OEM manufacturer for the Honda part, it gave me confidence that this would be a good replacement.

So, the hope is, once the A/F sensor is replaced and the battery is disconnected for ~30 minutes and then reconnected, my harsh shifting symptom would go away. The theory is that the ECM (or the computer) would now benefit from getting the proper information from the A/F sensor in order to deliver the right ratio of fuel to air in the combustion chamber.

Well, I'm happy to report, this actually had a significant improvement. My car drives so much better than it did just a few weeks ago when I was experiencing very harsh shifting from 1st to 2nd gear. I no longer experience any "harsh" shifting - still an occasional hesitation, but not harsh at all, and it only happens once in a while, whereas before I could make it happen consistently. It's not quite 100% but for a 180K mile CR-V, I'll take it.

Here's a recap of all the steps taken:
1) I cleaned the Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A,
2) I replaced the Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve B/C, gasket and O-rings
3) I drained and replaced my transmission fluid with Honda ATF DW-1 (3 times as recommended by Honda)
4) I replaced the Air/Fuel Ratio Sensor

Most of this work I was able to do myself, with the exception of the B/C Solenoid, which I might have been able to do, but decided to have my mechanic do it for me because of convenience. Thanks much for the advice and for the previous posts about the same topic. The average car owner may have just assumed the transmission was bad and decided to either spend $2500+ on a tranny overhaul, or they would have sold/junked the car. I spent less than $500 and have a car the still runs great thanks to the information on this forum, youtube, and the quality parts available online.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
I wish it were so easy for a 2002 Accord V6, which has the notoriously bad B7XA auto trans. My daughter's *slams* into 2nd, either the 1-->2 upshift or the 3-->2 downshift. The 2nd gear clutches are known to go bad (from overheating/poor lubrication), however, the shifting and behavior of the trans has not gotten any worse since we bought it in late August last year. (If it were failing, it would have already self destructed by now.)

I have yet to get time to pull those solenoids and clean them up. (Like this thread's CR-V, they test out OK electrically, and click when power is applied.) Doing that and two more drain/fills might help us figure out where to look next. At worst, I take it to a shop and get it rebuilt. We won't be out much since we got the '02 so cheap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Update

Quick update. So far, I've tried a couple of different things and haven't resolved the issue:
1) Replaced the transmission fluid with Honda ATF DW-1 using the Honda recommended 3x fluid change approach.
2) Resistance Test of Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A - Result - Passed - In Spec
3) Electrical Test of Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A - Result - Seemed OK - Clicked properly when connected with leads to battery terminals
4) Cleaned Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A, ATF Pipes/Screens with brake cleaner and reinstalled

So far, the symptoms have not changed.
The car still experiences a harsh shift from 1st gear to 2nd gear after being warmed up.

Went to the Honda dealer today to discuss the issue and they stated that transmission issues are rare for the CR-Vs and that it could be anything. They didn't rule out faulty solenoid valves, but they also didn't indicate that there were any significant trends that they would suggest might be a good starting hypothesis. Checked on the price of Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valve A and B/C and they were significant ($800+ for both). So I'm going to proceed with testing them and cleaning them before I consider replacing.

Next step will be to focus on Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valves B/C. This step will require draining the transmission fluid first. Will report back with results in a few days.
I have a 2005 Honda CRV the transmission went in May I had it replaced and now I have a very hard shift between first and second. It is very sporadic when it happens but up at the hill is definitely where I’ve seen it the most. What recourse do I have with the person who replaced the transmission he says he does not know what the problem is and it has not happened for him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
does the green D for drive flash when driving if it does or did there should be a code ,without a code the solenoids and pressures would have to be checked ,i assume the trans. guy checked for trans. codes,the only thing I found with harsh shifting from techs is shifts hard into 2nd and 3rd was solenoid C , I would think a servo or pressure control solenoid but im not a trans guy ,here's some trans info below
 

Attachments

1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top