[Scott091981]

Slowly working through getting my 2009 into tip top shape.

So far in the last 3-4 months of ownership
New air and cabin filter, wiper blades and window gaskets
Drain and fill of trans at Honda, moved to quality synthetic oil and OE filter.
Rotated new tires, found bad wheel studs and a bad wheel bearings which were all addressed.
Replaced both cooling fans, dealership comped 1 and did other myself.
Flushed power steering fluid, replaced trunk struts and added a rear cargo mat which has been a great addition.

Thats about all I can remember right now. Biggest remaining issue is when below about 40 degrees motor sounds like a newer diesel until it warms up.
Sounds coarse and either lifters or injectors are plain noisy - after 10-15 minutes is warms up a bit and is quiet and sooth.

No audible grinding, banding or knocking - just sounds coarse and noisy.

Also still remaining and possibly related - I still get some engine ping on 87 RON gas when the engine is under load at higher RPMS - such as full throttle runs second gear from 4500-6700 RPMs. 93 gas completely eliminates the issue and prevents any engine ping under any of the conditions, but obviously I would prefer to find the issue and solve that vs running premium gas all the time.

I have run through bottles of the chevron engine cleaner, Seafoam and even some MMO - while I do feel it improved it did not eliminate the issue


Thoughts of where to look first?

 

[Dave J]

as far as the ping goes that should be fixed asap so the live data will have to be reviewed when the ping is happening ,is the knock sensor detecting the ping ,if it is, is the timing being retarded ,it could just be a bad knock sensor or the PCM needs an update ,it could have some carbon on top of the pistons but the timing should be retarding when it pings ,here's a screen shot of what the knock sensor and retard timing looks like

 

[Scott091981]

as far as the ping goes that should be fixed asap so the live data will have to be reviewed when the ping is happening ,is the knock sensor detecting the ping ,if it is, is the timing being retarded ,it could just be a bad knock sensor or the PCM needs an update ,it could have some carbon on top of the pistons but the timing should be retarding when it pings ,here's a screen shot of what the knock sensor and retard timing looks like

Gotcha I will get it to the shop to start there. Any thoughts on the other engine noise when cold? No visible build up in engine, through the oil fill cap everything seems nice and shiny with no visible build up.

 

[Dave J]

if it has the correct viscosity oil ,then I would check the valve clearance .012 EXH .009 INT if they were adjusted on a hot engine would cause excessive lash ,valves should be adjusted every 110k they will especially on the exhaust lash will go tight and burn the valves/seats but will not cause more noise,because on this design the valves go tight when the seat and valve wear so I would suspect an improper adjustment,the engine has to be under 100F and the specs above ,pdf below, let us know how it turns out

 

[Scott091981]

if it has the correct viscosity oil ,then I would check the valve clearance .012 EXH .009 INT if they were adjusted on a hot engine would cause excessive lash ,valves should be adjusted every 110k they will especially on the exhaust lash will go tight and burn the valves/seats but will not cause more noise,because on this design the valves go tight when the seat and valve wear so I would suspect an improper adjustment,the engine has to be under 100F and the specs above ,pdf below, let us know how it turns out

I suspected the valves and will have them adjusted, it has just under 70k but probably better to have it checked/adjusted to rule out any issues. I am using the 5w-20 oil it that seems about as thin as water.

 

[Dave J]

yes good job,I know not knowing the history someone could have un adjusted the valves,because you can make the pre detonation knock go away or reduce with putting in premium is a good indication either the timing isn't retarding properly which should throw a p0325 or similar but if the knock sensor is out of range or an aftermarket that could be,with 70k I wouldn't think so but an EGR valve that is not functioning properly can cause ping also so looking at the data will tell a lot ,or running lean can too but from what you have going on I can eliminate lean air fuel mix,probably PCM update or knock sensor or EGR if the timing is retarding ,you have no codes right?

 

[Scott091981]

Correct, no codes and no check engine light. Are you aware of any inexpensive tools I could purchase and data log myself? Recently moved and thus far not impressed by any of the mechanics in this area.

Would be nice to diagnose it myself and just tell them what I want them to do

 

[Tigris99]

At 70k people are all over the place here. Valves would not where I would be going unless someone has been in there messing with valve lash previously.

First off, stop switching gas and running additives through it. Give the computer a chance to figure things out. Can take several drive cycles for the computer to relearn. Especially when your switching fuel types.

Some good advice on ping causes. But some simple things being missed. PCV valve is one, check it and the hose for it. Make sure the F/A Ratio sensor is operating correctly. Knock sensor as well.

As for noise at cold start, VCT actuator assembly (part of 1 cam sprocket for timing chain) is a known annoyance in those generation of engines. The cold start noise is where I would concentrate my efforts first with that little use on the engine because if there is an issue with the timing chain, it will cause your perceived "pinging" as well.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[Scott091981]

The mileage was pretty low

At 70k people are all over the place here. Valves would not where I would be going unless someone has been in there messing with valve lash previously.

First off, stop switching gas and running additives through it. Give the computer a chance to figure things out. Can take several drive cycles for the computer to relearn. Especially when your switching fuel types.

Some good advice on ping causes. But some simple things being missed. PCV valve is one, check it and the hose for it. Make sure the F/A Ratio sensor is operating correctly. Knock sensor as well.

As for noise at cold start, VCT actuator assembly (part of 1 cam sprocket for timing chain) is a known annoyance in those generation of engines. The cold start noise is where I would concentrate my efforts first with that little use on the engine because if there is an issue with the timing chain, it will cause your perceived "pinging" as well.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Of course it was 40* this morning and it started sooth as can be, supposed to be 32 tomorrow so I can confirm if that issue has fixed itself

Really only ran the various gas/cleaners early on - its been 2-3k on the same gas now. It was very low mileage and not driven much so I was hoping it was carbon I could clean out - but while the issue has been greatly reduced it has not been corrected. I will get it in with the items you mentioned as suggestions

I am so used to the dealers just simply giving it back with the "could not duplicate" I really try and figure out as much as I can before I bring it in.

 

[Wildcat]

Our blue '09 has a quieter engine than the tan, even after I adjusted the valves (which is a major pain to do--the rear valves require nearly leaning on top of the engine to reach them). If anything, adjusting the valves made the engine a little noisier. But the sound doesn't change much based on temperature--it is slightly louder when cold, but once it runs for a couple of minutes, it's fine.

I've noticed pinging in mine occasionally, but not so much lately. All I know is, I got the best mileage and engine power out west running ethanol-free gasoline. It ran terrible through half of Montana, downshifting constantly and revving high. Immediate change when I pump in some ethanol-free gas--it downshifted a lot less and didn't strain going up the hills. Higher octane also helped with the gas mileage, but I think that was possibly because the premium fuels had less ethanol. Locally, I've quit buying BP gas since I've heard a few others complain they get poor gas mileage (so it wasn't just my imagination). Today I filled with Citgo 87. We'll see how it works. The only ethanol-free gas in town is over $4/gallon.

When I bought both of our '09s, I changed all the fluids, filters and plugs over the course of a couple of months. I was especially wary on plugs, since a Bosch spark plug ruined our Civic engine--I wanted to be sure nobody put Bosch anything in our cars.

 

[gamatt]

Very similar symptoms on my '08 with 111k. My '92 Accord EX always did the same valve noise when cold, no difference after I adjusted the valves. Going to try some of the mentioned items.

 

[Scott091981]

Update -

Replaced front Drivers side wheel bearing maybe 3k ago.
Today it just got both rear wheel bearings replaced as they were seriously getting loud.
Brake booster assembly also replaced - pedal was rock hard after the vehicle had been sitting for 4 or more hours

They could not find any mechanical or electrical issues with the knock sensor or motor.
They suggested changing the plugs and a fuel system treatment so we are doing that as well as cleaning the MAF to see if that helps.

I will update after some drive time to see if those changes helped reduce my engine ping at higher rpms under load.

 

[Wildcat]

What type of noise did you hear for the wheel bearings? The other '09 on the freeway has had a slight humming from the left side of the vehicle, but can't place it front or back. But it does not sound like the bearing failure we had two times (same wheel) in the craptastic Malibu we had many years ago.

 

[Scott091981]

Best way I could describe it is regular tire road noise cranked up to 10. I've had a couple trucks with large tread mud tires and it sounds like a louder version of them. The noise went from nonexistent to very loud in a matter of 3k miles.

Really 75% of it was from the rear passenger side, they said the drivers side was headed there next so they just did both. Did not think Honda had issues with bearings - only 70k on this one so kinda surprised to see 3 out of 4 needing to be replaced in the last 5k.

 

[Scott091981]

So picked it up today, first brake booster they installed was deemed faulty as it exhibited the same symptoms and they had a new one overnighted as it was not available locally. Second one came in this morning and it working properly.

Bearing/road noise is GREATLY improved, also seems to coast a little longer off throttle but that could completely be in my head. I would never call this generation CRV a quiet vehicle - but it is now well withing acceptable standards

I ran a couple full throttle pulls with the 87RON gas and so far no pinging, to be honest I was not expecting the spark plugs to fix the issue - but all the better if they actually do.

I will keep you updated