[psgoff]

Hi Everyone,

I talk this forum up constantly so please know your feedback is gold to me.

My Charlie Brown (2010 Honda CRV AWD EX-L) has the dreaded shudder between 38-45 MPH. I have noticed the shudder for about the last 6-7 weeks and I could not put my finger on the noise until I came to my fellow posters here. I am going to describe the noise in multiple different ways for others that may be experiencing the dreaded shudder but cannot describe it the exact same. At first thought, I was thinking it was a particular road or set of roads since Indiana is not well known for having perfect roads, more like pothole patch city, however, I began to notice it was happening on random streets including ones freshly paved. Now, do not get me wrong I know some construction crews may not do the best job paving but no way it was on every single newly laid part of asphalt that I would notice the issue. I initially described the shudder as similar to hitting a rumble strip in the roadway that separates the lanes of traffic. I even considered the noise to be some road noise from the new tires I placed on the car, although I did my research and the tires I placed on Charlie Brown were in the top five with little to no road noise. I was stumped to say the least, but than I did my due diligence and went on the hunt. I let my foot off the accelerator pedal and the noise goes away, I noticed it only occurs between 38-45 MPH and the occurrence seems to increase when my driving seems to be maintained within this MPH range for a good amount of time. Many of us on this forum seem to be avid Honda maintainers and I am a dummy light and noise, anal retentive Honda owner, but I went to my mechanic and he referred me to a transmission shop.

Two sentences into describing my issue and the transmission shop was well aware of the issues the Honda CRV's and Odyssey's experience with the torque converter, hence the reason a Honda Odyssey was sitting in the lot waiting to be worked on for the exact same reason but with many more miles than mine. I was informed that it will not be his first, nor his last torque converter to be replaced in the type of Honda I own but he said he would also check on the condition of the transmission when it is dropped to change the torque converter should I go this route. I was told my vehicle has very low miles for the age at 102,000 miles so he does not forecast an issue but will check to be sure. I informed him that I heard about the temporary fix of doing three 3.5 quart transmission changes with driving through all four gears for 50-100 miles in between each. He mentioned he was aware of this but also said some people add shudder fix which helps to quiet down the shudder for some time. I am not opposed to changing the transmission fluid three times with the intermittent driving in between each change but I do have my tongue in my cheek about the shudder fix since I have not used market additives in any of my vehicles, especially my Honda's. Which leads to my question?

For those who have had this shudder issue, did shudder fix resolve the problem for an extended period of time? Did the shudder fix additive cause any damage to the transmission? For anyone who had the torque converter replaced did you experience anymore issues following replacement? Which type of torque converter did you use, because if Honda's torque converters go out, I see nothing logically about using OEM?

NOTE: Transmission shop says they use refurbished Atlas' for their torque converter replacements and it is warrantied for one year through them. My estimate for replacement was $1,000.00.

I ask these questions because normally I would not want anything to do with a vehicle that has a transmission issue and most assign the torque converter to the transmission because it is the clutch to the transmission hence the sound, but even with a torque converter replacement, I am still on the winning end with the original cost of the vehicle.

Sorry for being so long winded here, but I genuinely appreciate the feedback and more importantly than anything, I do not want to sink a grand into the car and find out that a transmission is going to take a dump 100,000 miles later, because I plan on Charlie Brown staying with me until he only be picked for parts.

Thank you very much for your much valued time.

Fellow Honda Owner

 

[skelley521]

Transmission shudder happens to all Makes.
GM is facing a lawsuit over it. It's called the 'Chevy-Shudder'.
My buddy has a 15' Acadia that he's fighting at the moment.
Ford SUV have a known defect in some of their builds where the steel shaft wears out a hole in the aluminum and allows fluid to pass.
I had a 2005 Explorer that I got second hand and gambled on. Long story short, it was to late to apply a fix. 125K miles and it done for.

I believe both of these instances occurred sooner than normal due to lack of Maintenance.
So I have to ask, did you change the transmission fluid regularly?
I'm not blaming you, but rather trying to figure out what causes the issue as I have 2 Hondas with the corporate 5 speed.
I change the fluid when the Maintenance Minder calls for it and even at random times when it doesn't.

I know some History on Hondas 5 speeds and they can be finicky with dirty fluids, but that's a story for another time.

Before you go all out with replacement / rebuild, why not try some steps that have helped many others.

• Change the Transmission Filter
• Do the 3X Drain / Fills

I know it was recommended to do 4x Drain / Fills when Honda switched from Z1 to DW1 to get the appropriate amount of 'Mix' to a preferred percentage.
So I would think that 3X D/F would get the clean fluid level back to spec.
Some have mentioned on other forums that changing the Filter resolved their issue.

If it were me, I'd replace the Filter and do the 3X D/F procedure before proceeding to more costly options.
.

I've never been a fan of shudder fix or other fluid repairs and would only consider them once I tried everything else and was looking at a major rebuild.
Their are several on other Forums and Youtube that had success with those products, so that is a option I suppose.

 

[psgoff]

I purchased the vehicle from the original owner with 61,000 miles driven approximately a year and a half ago. I have routinely done the transmission drain and fills every 25,000 miles although I know it is every 30,000 because I do not want to over the interval recommendation from Honda using ONLY Honda dealer purchased transmission fluid. I cannot speak for the previous owners but since I have owned the vehicle it has been routinely. Even occasionally changing before the 25,000 miles due for the area where I reside. No one wants to be under a car in the dead of winter so I ensure the maintenance is done early so it can be avoided between the months of December-March when I rarely drive because I despise the cold weather. I completely forgot about the transmission filter but I will definitely consider that because anything to avoid a $1,000.00 repair gets a definite thumbs up in my book. Thank you very much for your input. My previous car to Charlie Brown was a 2002 Ford Explorer XLT until the rear end went out.

 

[skelley521]

I hear you on the cold weather. I'm the same way and try to do it all ahead of time.
I hate being out under a vehicle during that time myself, however, sometimes it happens and I'm not a happy camper.....lol.

I just changed my filter as I didn't know if the previous owners did it. I didn't see any witness marks on the hardware so I replaced it.
I busted several of those plastic retainer clips on the lower panel when I removed it to access the filter. They were brittle and the metal screw / clips on the ends were seized up pretty good.
I had a box of spare push retainers and replaced all of them with new.
There was a hole or two missing screws and clips which I also filled with various retainers from the kit.
It worked out well and looks good. I'm glad I had them on hand. It may help if you run into the same issue. Link.

I had already changed out the DW1 fluid a few days before the filter arrived.
When I changed the filter I took it for a test drive. I honestly felt like it shifted smoother.
Definitely worth $31 and the peace of mind.
Good luck with your issues and let us know what you do and how it goes.

 

[new-2-me-CR_V]

You can remove all solenoids from transmission one by one and inspect them for signs of debris.
The TCC has inline mesh filters that will clogg up( known fact) clean the filters and change the fluid.
If those filters are not cleaned up in time the torque converter will starve of atf and will burn up( infamous blue color).

If at some point you decide to rebuild the transmission get a shift correction kit( if available)

 

[Avisitor]

Question, when you brought the vehicle to your mechanic, did he do any tests?
Or did he just know it was the transmission??

I have known shudders or shimming or vibrations at certain speeds
Once it was the tranny mount
Another time it was the passenger side wheel bearing.
At first, the noise and vibration only came on certain roads
But would smooth out on newly paved roads
Then it would be noisy all the time.
Or, the vibration would stop when I let off the accelerator pedal

I am not saying the tranny or torque converter isn't your issue
Personally, just like to be sure before spending a lot of money on a fix

 

[psgoff]

You make a great point...The ONLY thing I have not changed is the front bearings. I have not changed them because I have no play in them whatsoever, but I would not be surprised if that could cause some of the issue, especially since I do still have a slight and I mean very slight right tug on the steering wheel even after a very recent lifetime wheel alignment from Firestone. I was not expecting to recently change my rear hub bearings but after I drilled out the ABS sensors and tore up the magnetic ring, changing them was not optional. I absolutely needed the ABS dash light off and I am a dummy light hound. Once they were removed, I spun them both and each one was making noise, not an obnoxious amount of noise, but noise that it should not have been making, although I had zero play in neither rear tire. 💡 The rear hub assemblies are much easier to change since they come as assemblies on the AWD but the fronts have to be pressed in, a job that always sucks. As far as the mechanic running any tests, nope not one...I walked into the transmission shop, explaining the issue and he stated he was very familiar with the issue surrounding the torque converter on the Hondas and than I proceeded to ask him the cost of replacement. I am definitely not ready to jump in head first to a $1,000.00 replacement on the torque converter but I am ready to dive head first into the issue immediately following the holiday to get to the root of the problem, hoping to find a solution that does not cost me a $1,000.00. Which leads to my next question?

A case of Honda ATF for my 2010 Honda CRV EX-L AWD is quoted from Honda at $112.00, who sells it cheaper and I do NOT want anything aftermarket.

 

[skelley521]

Shudder is determined by live data via a graph using HDS while the Tech test drives the vehicle.

Generally the speed seems to be around the 3rd clutch area.

Honda had a recall back around 04' on their 5 speeds. The Tech I talked to said transmissions we're arriving by the tractor trailer loads.
At first they were directed to rebuild the transmissions as they were and report their findings.
After a extended period of time, it was determined that the 3rd clutch area wasn't getting lubed properly.
The Techs were then instructed to retrofit a lube tube to the affected zone.
He said he didn't feel it was a sufficient fix. I don't know if the newer transmissions made after that discovery were designed differently, but with proper fluid changes they seem to be able to get high mileage and dependable.

I'm just recalling from memory and typing on my phone, so if any of this info is not accurate please feel free to add/correct my statement with provided links.

If the D/F procedure didn't resolve your issue, I'd spend the money and have a proper diagnosis by a Honda service tech.
Spend the money up front, that way it's properly fixed and covered warranty repairs.

 

[udraft]

Sorry can't add much, never had this. Only thought was if it could be the rear transaxle fluid.

 

[new-2-me-CR_V]

Were all solenoids removed and cleaned up. There are small filters behind the solenoids plus the filter mesh.
I would start there.

 

[skelley521]

Speaking of 1-2 & 3 solenoids.
Food for thought...
.

 

[Higgy Baby]

I had that shudder in my 2013 when I bought it back in March of this year. It had 108,000 mi. The dealer did a flush- 3 drain and refils- that completely cleared the shudder.

Edit: the cost was about $330.

 

[iCrash]

I just speed up a little and it stops 🤷‍♂️



But seriously I did the fluid change at one point and it stopped. It came back like 50k miles later and I just give the accelerator a tap now.