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Discussion Starter #1
Car rolls forwards/backwards slightly with handbrake applied

Our CR-V (UK spec diesel SE manual 4WD) has had an annoying habit ever since new (it's now about 5 months old). If you brake to a halt on a slight incline (either to park or when stopping at a junction) apply the handbrake and then release the footbrake, the car rolls downhill a couple of inches and then lurches to a very abrupt stop. It feels as if there is some sideways play on the handbrake shoes.

It's just been into the Honda dealer and they say "some sideways movement is to be expected" which sounds utter rubbish to me. No other car that I've ever driven over the past 30 years has ever done this: normally you brake to a halt with the footbrake, apply the handbrake and then come off the footbrake - and the car holds solid without rolling and then lurching to a halt. Not so with the CR-V.

It's got to the stage that my wife and I have got into the habit of releasing the footbrake very gently so that when the car rolls it at least does so very slowly and doesn't hit the end-stop as violently.

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, has anyone had any success in getting a Honda garage to acknowledge that it's not normal or acceptible for a car to do this, even if it isn't unusual for the CR-V.
 

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Sounds like something is amiss with the mechanical emergency brake (handbrake) mechanism.
Have you ever tried stopping the car with the emergency brake only?
If parked on a level surface with the emergency brake on, can you rock the car back and forth an amount equal to the incline roll back?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think you have summed it up - if there is play in the handbrake (emergency brake) shoes, allowing the wheels to rotate slightly when the footbrake is released, that sounds like a fairly major "something is amiss". I haven't tried pushing the car backwards and forwards - only because I don't fancy trying to push 1.5 tons. I'll check to see how well the car stops on the handbrake alone (not from a high speed and only when there's nothing close in front!)

What amazed me was the attitude of the garage: you should expect some play and it's connected with hill-start assist. If that's the price you pay for having hill-start assist then I don't want it: I'm perfectly adept at doing my own hill starts as it's a standard manoeuvre that's required for the driving test here in the UK, especially in a manual - once you've acquired the skill, you never forget the coordination of clutch, accelerator and handbrake. When you can do it on a 1:3 hill when the guy in front of you stalls and has trouble getting going again (as happened to me last year) you can do anything!

Maybe in an automatic it's less noticeable because you'd tend to slip the car into Park when you stopped at traffic lights on an incline or when you parked, rather than using the handbrake to hold the car once you take your footbrake off. It will be interesting to see if anyone else from Europe (where manual cars are a lot more common) has experienced the problem.


Ironically my trip to the Honda agent today was for three problems, none of which the garage could reproduce :-( First of all the Bluetooth adaptor in the radio had turned itself off and would not turn on again from the Settings menu - we tried it repeatedly in between first experiencing it about ten days ago and the garage having a vacancy to investigate, and then it spontaneously turned itself on as I was driving to the garage this morning :) Secondly the "puddle lights" (LEDs beneath the front door sills to illuminate the groudn when you get out at night) stayed on permanently, but only in heavy rain; at all other times they turned themselves off after a minute as normal. Garage couldn't make it go wrong. Thirdly the handbrake which *they say* is a "that's how it's supposed to behave". I felt a right idiot picking up the car when al three "faults" were "non-reproducable".
 

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That does sound frustrating.
I'll bet the 'slack' in the brake is the result of the hill start assist mechanism. It may be that since it is combined with the emergency brake there is/will be a certain amount of 'slop' when going from one 'system' to the other.

I'd be interested in knowing if you've experienced 'roll back' when using the hill start assist. I realize you may not have made use of this function in your car, but it would be interesting to hear if it does it. If it does, then it may be you need to check or have someone check the adjustment, assuming there is one, of the mechanism.

Our emergency brake is foot actuated (2013 EX AT) and goes just about to the floor when you really push it. I've noted the hill assist when going into the garage from a standstill on our mildly sloped driveway. There is no roll back at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
20CRVEX13, how should hill-start assist work and how do you know that it is working? I imagine that since you're in the USA, your CR-V will probably be automatic. All automatic transmissions tend to have some degree of hill-start assist, in that if you are on an uphill gradient, in drive, with the engine idling, the car will not roll back when you release the footbrake, even before you press the accelerator beyond idling position. Maybe Honda's hill-start assist extends this to steeper gradients that a normal auto would be able to handle.

In a manual car, should HSA prevent the car rolling backwards when the transmission is in gear with the clutch down and the handbrake (emergency/parking brake) released, and I then release the footbrake in preparation for pressing the accelrator? I'll have to find a gentle hill near me (and a quiet road so there's no traffic behind me!) to see what it does. Normally I would hold the car on the handbrake while I moved my foot from the footbrakre to accelerator, and then coordinate the three actions of letting clutch in, pressing accelerator and releasing handbrake, so I've never had cause to test it - but I will test it because you've got me intrigued.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've already posted this in the general Problems & Issues forum (it won't let me post a link to the thread) but I'm copying it here because it may be more relevant to a European/UK audience where manual cars are more common (automatic transmission may mask the problem).

Imagine that you stop the car (manual transmission) on a slight gradient (uphill or downhill). You stop using the footbrake and then apply the handbrake to hold the car so you can release the footbrake and put the car in neutral, either to park or when stopping at lights or a junction. In every other car I've driven for the past 30 years, the car will not move. In the CR-V, the car rolls a few inches (which feels like a few feet!) forwards or backwards and then comes to a very abrupt stop. It feels as if the handbrake pads are rotating slightly in their housing.

Has anyone else experienced this and has anyone found a way to minimise its effect? I reported it to the Honda garage and the engineer's report said "there will be slight movement as the shoes will move to stop the position" [sic] and the service receptionist said that it was associated with the hill-start assist feature. She recommended waiting a couple of seconds between applying the handbrake and releasing the footbrake "to let the system register that you have applied the handbrake". That doen't actually make any difference.

The only workaround I've found is to accept that the car will roll, and to release the footbrake very gently so the car rolls very slowly and doesn't lurch abruptly to a stop when it hits the end-stop. That's not exactly ideal.

To my mind, if a car rolls when the handbrake has been applied and the footbrake is then released, irrespective of "that's the way it's been designed" excuses, there is a fault which must be fixed. What do other people think?
 

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Weird. Does not seem right. I wouldn't like it. To me, if you engage the emergency/parking brake, that should be it. Period.

We have the foot operated parking brake. You step on it. You're STOPPED. There's no movement. None.
 

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Maybe the parking brake needs an adjustment. Pursue that if you can.

Enjoy the ride.
 

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Yes, our CR-V is an automatic. When I go to put our car into our garage I can feel 'something' holding the car on our inclined driveway. It doesn't 'feel' like a 'normal' automatic, at least not to me, holding the car on the hill. You have to apply more gas than I would expect a 'normal' automatic would require to get it moving up the hill. I don't know how to describe it. I don't think the engine will climb the hill just putting it in gear from a dead stop. I'll test this theory tonight when I put the car away as it's been out on the driveway all day, unstarted so I'll be able to test it with the high cold idle.
What you've described with a manual transmission is exactly how I used to do it when I had stick shift cars. It is also the way my driving instructor in high school taught everyone in my driver's ed class too. It is a lot easier to do when the release of the hand brake is actually done with the hand, not the foot like the CR-V is now.
I'm not sure how Honda integrates this system with the normal brakes.
I look forward to hearing your test results.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What you've described with a manual transmission is exactly how I used to do it when I had stick shift cars. It is also the way my driving instructor in high school taught everyone in my driver's ed class too. It is a lot easier to do when the release of the hand brake is actually done with the hand, not the foot like the CR-V is now.
I'm not sure how Honda integrates this system with the normal brakes.
I look forward to hearing your test results.
My wife (who drives the car during the week) thinks that the problem may be a less noticeable than it was before I took the car in. Hopefully we'll go out somewhere this weekend and I can find a hill to try it on. I contacted the garage when they sent me an email asking for feedback, and had a response from the head of servicing who (at last) seemed to take the matter seriously, and offered to let me demonstrate the problem to his head technician to see what could be done. I said I'd report back after I'd had chance to test it, so we had both my wife's and my opinions on it.

I imagine that US-spec cars have a foot-operated brake because with automatic you can use the Park position of the transmission for normal day-to-day parking, and you can hold the car on the footbrake for as long as you are stopped at lights or a junction (though even in an automatic I always use the handbrake and put the car in neutral so I can take my foot off the footbrake, because one of my pet hates is having to sit behind someone, especially at night, whose brake lights are glaring in my face when I'm stopped behind him).

I presume they decided that if the parking brake wasn't needed as frequently (eg at every junction or every hill where you have to stop) they'd free up the space between the seats. Interestingly, automatic cars in the UK still have the handbrake between the seats, so the foot-operated brake is an American phenomenon. I'm trying to remember where the parking brake was on my sister's Dodge Caravan that they had when they lived in the US. I know their other car, a Hyundai, had a true handbrake, though being a non-US import it probably would have.

I presume the foot-operated brake is pressed against a spring and a ratchet, and then you press further against a stronger spring to release the brake and let the pedal return to its normal position.
 

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I tested the hill assist last night putting the car away. On the cold idle, the car easily climbed our slight hill when put in gear and parking brake released. This is with a cold idle that showed 1400 rpm on the tach. It didn't really surprise me. It does act differently when it's warm though.
Yes our foot operated emergency brake operates as you described in your last paragraph. Press to set, press again to release.
For what it's worth I never allow the full weight of the car to rest against the transmission when in the Park position. That is too hard on the trans, IMO, and not good for it. I try to get my wife to do the same, but, that is not always the case with her. I never, well almost never, take the car out of gear while waiting for a light.
Still interested in your findings.
 

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I'm also experiencing this in my December 2016 reg UK CRV 1.6D SE. The head tech at my local Honda dealership says it's just a characteristic of this car. I find this hard to accept... :( Otherwise, I like this car! Except for the road noise in the rear, even with decent quality tyres.
 

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It’s down to the type of braking system fitted to the rear of the V.
Most cars either have drum brakes connected to the hand brake on the rear or disks with callipers that are connected to the handbrake.
On these cars when you press the brake pedal the shoe grip the drum or the pads grip the disc and when you pull the hand brake you are simply locking the shoes or pads into place.

On the CR-V it has discs with a Caliper round the outside and a drum/shoe setup on the inside. This means that when you stop the car using the foot brake, apply the hand brake and then release the foot brake the movement is just the slight play being taken up by the shoes.

Not the easiest thing to describe but I hope it helps
 

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I've the same characteristic and it is a characteristic, with my 2013 crv. There are alot of brands out there using the same type of set, i know bmw's do and they roll slightly to. The problem i have with mine though is it wont roll farward, except for that inch or 2, but it rolls back. You really have to pull on the handbrake to stop it. Funnilly enough though it don't happen when the brakes are hot. Wont be a problem soon though as i'm waiting for delivery of my new crv hybrid in a few weeks. That's electric and i know how troublesome those have been on other brands, but hey, its a honda and won't break.
 

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Duplicate threads merged.

My own thoughts. I've never driven a car, any brand, manual/stick or automatic where there isn't some movement of the car after the handbrake/ebrake is applied.
 
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