[williamsji]

Hey everyone! I joined the BCM Club in early June in Sacramento, Ca! I have a different story then what I have read here. I took the car in to the dealership to update the computer since it was acting up on me. Rep told me that "my after market alarm would damage the electrical system!" Excuse me? I never put one in and by the way I bought the car here! Then he proceeded with the conversation as I was not telling the truth! So here's what I learned and this bothered me! Dealerships place the after market alarms to avoid theft from the lots. THEN, they try to up sell them and make money off it! LOL So this after market system that I never put in the car blew up my BCM...thankfully I have the extended warranty and I will fight the $100 deductible HARD since I was not even close do my doing! In the mean time I have been disconnecting my battery.. 2 of 10 times I have issues with starting up the car. Put in a claim at Honda this morning and hoping that will add more of us to the pile. Crossing my fingers for 8 August like the rest of us fools! =(

I doubt very much the alleged aftermarket alarm blew your BCM.

The service rep you had the discussion with is probably just clueless that that particular dealer uses them as anti-theft devices. It is certainly nothing to get into an argument about (never argue with an ignorant person, especially an opinionated one, there is no percentage in it).

Also, service reps that write your paperwork are to be ignored on any technical discussion about your vehicle. There job is customer interaction and proper work order writeup, checking for open recalls and TSBs, and tracking your vehicle while it is for service and notifying you when your vehicle is ready. Any actual technical discussion should be conducted with an actual certified Honda service tech. Personally, I have never had an issue with having a service tech join a discussion between me and the service rep who writes the work order.

By the way, these systems are very common with dealerships around here. Most people just opt to have them disabled at time of sale. My dealer gives a 70% discount on the alarm at time of sale if the buyer wishes to keep it enabled, so I opt for them to stay enabled. Never had an issue with it, and it is a much better theft deterrent system than the vehicles OEM system.

Honestly, if you are going to use a dealership for your service... A) make sure it is one that is reputable and that you are comfortable with. B) ALWAYS report your service experience via the surveys Honda sends most owners when they have their vehicle serviced at a dealership. C) there is no reason to get into debates or conflict with a service rep, ever (learn to properly manage your interactions with service reps.. both good ones and bad ones... it is in your best interests to do so).

 

[Grpass]

Hey everyone! I joined the BCM Club in early June in Sacramento, Ca! I have a different story then what I have read here. I took the car in to the dealership to update the computer since it was acting up on me. Rep told me that "my after market alarm would damage the electrical system!" Excuse me? I never put one in and by the way I bought the car here! Then he proceeded with the conversation as I was not telling the truth! So here's what I learned and this bothered me! Dealerships place the after market alarms to avoid theft from the lots. THEN, they try to up sell them and make money off it! LOL So this after market system that I never put in the car blew up my BCM...thankfully I have the extended warranty and I will fight the $100 deductible HARD since I was not even close do my doing! In the mean time I have been disconnecting my battery.. 2 of 10 times I have issues with starting up the car. Put in a claim at Honda this morning and hoping that will add more of us to the pile. Crossing my fingers for 8 August like the rest of us fools! =(

My guess is the rep really doesn't know if the aftermarket alarm damaged the electrical system. He just threw that out as a smoke screen. Especially after lying about the after market alarm.

 

[williamsji]

My guess is the rep really doesn't know if the aftermarket alarm damaged the electrical system. He just threw that out as a smoke screen. Especially after lying about the after market alarm.

I agree. Further, it is not his job as the front service rep to be expressing opinions like this anyway.

Given the survey process Honda uses to check on dealership customer service and satisfaction, this service rep won't last long in my view. Honda dealerships around here are extremely careful to insure customers and their vehicles are well cared for.. the point of actually reaching out after service (both by the service rep, and the service manager) to make sure I am happy with my service visit. They are actually quite paranoid about an owner giving negative feedback in the Honda surveys.. and when I inquired why one time.... because repeated survey responses on the same issues results in strong demands by Honda corporate to clean up their act. I also found the dealership had a zero tolerance policy for poor customer service and interactions with customers (even though some customers can be real donkeys toward the dealership sometimes).

 

[Derek Novaes]

Honestly, if you are going to use a dealership for your service... A) make sure it is one that is reputable and that you are comfortable with. B) ALWAYS report your service experience via the surveys Honda sends most owners when they have their vehicle serviced at a dealership. C) there is no reason to get into debates or conflict with a service rep, ever (learn to properly manage your interactions with service reps.. both good ones and bad ones... it is in your best interests to do so).

Awesome tips! I used to teach a customer service college class in addition to being In business of customer service my whole life, I get it! LOL My rep at the dealership and I are in GREAT terms! As most us, we're in the dark and no one wants us there and I truly believe that concept! We will get thru this!

 

[2019CRVDriver]

After a few months of waiting and frustratingly disconnecting my battery for what felt like a million times, Honda finally got me the BCM earlier than expected. I was expecting it on August 8 but got it early last week. It's been about a week since the new BCM got installed and the problem has finally disappeared. I was surprised it came so early because my case manager wasn't even sure it would come in this year as there were quite a few people ahead of me. I hope chip production has finally picked up. Good luck to everyone else waiting and make sure your order is marked as critical backorder!

 

[sirwired]

My dealer gives a 70% discount on the alarm at time of sale if the buyer wishes to keep it enabled, so I opt for them to stay enabled.

Offering a "discount" for an option they already put on the car is a common dealer trick for high-margin stuff. The "full" price is entirely fabricated, and rest assured they are already making plenty of money even with that "70% off". (Which is how they can afford to put the system on every car, and eat the cost for people that don't enable it for after purchase.) I imagine few/no people re-enable it after purchase (and even if they did, it is likely they'd be offered the same/greater "discount".)

 

[williamsji]

Offering a "discount" for an option they already put on the car is a common dealer trick for high-margin stuff. The "full" price is entirely fabricated, and rest assured they are already making plenty of money even with that "70% off". (Which is how they can afford to put the system on every car, and eat the cost for people that don't enable it for after purchase.) I imagine few/no people re-enable it after purchase (and even if they did, it is likely they'd be offered the same/greater "discount".)

I'm sure they are not losing money in the process. But at that discount, the alarm system is actually worth it in my view.

 

[Dylan4real13]

I have been waiting since February and still have not got one ! How does it make sense for people to get there’s before me

 

[TheDarkKnight]

I have been waiting since February and still have not got one ! How does it make sense for people to get there’s before me

Quit moaning - serves little positive purpose. It is what it is.

You arent the only one waiting for parts.

Parts availability is dependant on location too. You are in Canada, which has a smaller Honda supply chain than your bigger neighbour to the south, so it makes sense US customers will be prioritised.

 

[chidog]

Interesting problem everyone is having. 1. If it has not happened from day one driving the car off the dealer lot. 2 It has happened so many weeks after purchase. Then the problem is not a software issue, it is a hardware issue. Since the same sort of issue seems to be happening to everyones Honda, and seems to be generation specific. Then it is likely a manufacturing fault. One of the things that comes to mind is a cold solder joint on a circuit board. The incidents are too soon to be a failing component like electrolytic capacitors etc. It would be nice if someone with this problem and that has an electronics back ground could check for bad solder joints in the module. If that is the case it could be an easy fix to help get some cars back on the road. Also when getting a used module another trick other than reprogramming is to use the cars original EPROM chip from the old removed unit. That is what is usually done with some ECU transfers, and Nissan CVT valve body exchanges.
Just some ideas here.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Then it is likely a manufacturing fault.

To be clear - its a supplier manufacturing issue, not Honda

 

[chidog]

To be clear - its a supplier manufacturing issue, not Honda

I fully agree.
And when it comes to electronics there is no way any auto manufacture could bring that in house. Even the outfit making the device doesn't have full control, unless they manufacture every little component from resisters, capacitors, and the IC chips.
I sure would like if someone that is electronic savvy could open one up and see if it is an easy fix. It could be one or two joints to reflow and all would be good.

had to edit and have it make sense.

 

[williamsji]

Interesting problem everyone is having. 1. If it has not happened from day one driving the car off the dealer lot. 2 It has happened so many weeks after purchase. Then the problem is not a software issue, it is a hardware issue. Since the same sort of issue seems to be happening to everyones Honda, and seems to be generation specific. Then it is likely a manufacturing fault. One of the things that comes to mind is a cold solder joint on a circuit board. The incidents are too soon to be a failing component like electrolytic capacitors etc. It would be nice if someone with this problem and that has an electronics back ground could check for bad solder joints in the module. If that is the case it could be an easy fix to help get some cars back on the road. Also when getting a used module another trick other than reprogramming is to use the cars original EPROM chip from the old removed unit. That is what is usually done with some ECU transfers, and Nissan CVT valve body exchanges.
Just some ideas here.

I doubt it is a poor solder connection, given the automated circuit board assembly process that is used now days.

As for the EPROM, I'm sure all the components are surface mount attached, via automated assembly and solder processes. Not something a typical bench repair could replace or swap. I doubt there is even an EPROM, but rather a small amount of SSD memory store on the controller chip.

It is more likely an electronic component that either drifts out of tolerance over time, or a poor connection in one of the numerous connectors these BCMs require. It is wired up like some sort of central junction box, and has way too many connectors in my view (there are better ways). The molex style connectors and pins used are very cost effective for use in the vehicle industry, but they are not without issues given they are tin plated connections. If a connecting pin does not make a gas tight fit to its mating pin, they can go intermittent over time.

Like many things where there is a repeating issue in the field, it will get corrected and sorted out, but the manufacturer will never provide a detailed root cause analysis to the public. They will however learn from the issue and ensure it does not get repeated in future designs. If it were not for the long lead time in the supply chain on the BCM, this would just be another blip on a generational weak point where it is quickly fixed for HondaCare owners at no charge, and those who are out of warranty will be complaining about the cost to replace the module. Supply chain issues right now are making this one a much bigger impact on owners than normal.

 

[StephenMapNova]

I doubt it is a poor solder connection, given the automated circuit board assembly process that is used now days.

So nothing like a 'common' problem on Honda Pilots? You get a manufacturer with so so quality control and get problems down the road.
I have worked in several places that dealt with failed boards and components, problems that arose from bad processes and operating
conditions. Products are made to a tolerance and statistically some will fail.

Could possibly examine the component for easy fix like Eric or maybe not:

 

[chidog]

For some reason only the sound worked on the video for me. But yes the caption shows some bad solder joints. And yes it can happen with fancy automated machines like Williamsji mentioned in that post.
First off just go to Youtube and search "bad circuit board solder joints" there will be a ton of videos pop up, and proves its one of the most common failure modes for electronic devices, as well as shorted capacitors.
I say that the use of NONleaded solder doesn't help the problem much either, and I'm sure that is a requirement for anything made now in any country. So we can't say it does not happen because the automated fancy machines are so perfect now. Actually they would be the most susceptible to having problems and not caught quickly. Then there could be an issue with something causing corrosion at the solder joint from a plating process too, maybe not real likely but.

The important take from this is things can go wrong with electronic circuit boards and they can be fixed. And at times it is not a real technical fix and can be seen if you know what to look for. A good magnifying glass is a huge help.

With the BCM problem, I would say check real good where all the connectors attach to the board. If they have any sort of vibratory component while driving the car that could be a place for the solder joint to go bad. It would be great if someone with an out of warranty vehicle would check one out.

And yes it helps to have the schematic but. This guy is good, and mostly self taught I think.

 

[williamsji]

For some reason only the sound worked on the video for me. But yes the caption shows some bad solder joints. And yes it can happen with fancy automated machines like Williamsji mentioned in that post.
First off just go to Youtube and search "bad circuit board solder joints" there will be a ton of videos pop up, and proves its one of the most common failure modes for electronic devices, as well as shorted capacitors.
I say that the use of NONleaded solder doesn't help the problem much either, and I'm sure that is a requirement for anything made now in any country. So we can't say it does not happen because the automated fancy machines are so perfect now. Actually they would be the most susceptible to having problems and not caught quickly. Then there could be an issue with something causing corrosion at the solder joint from a plating process too, maybe not real likely but.

The important take from this is things can go wrong with electronic circuit boards and they can be fixed. And at times it is not a real technical fix and can be seen if you know what to look for. A good magnifying glass is a huge help.

With the BCM problem, I would say check real good where all the connectors attach to the board. If they have any sort of vibratory component while driving the car that could be a place for the solder joint to go bad. It would be great if someone with an out of warranty vehicle would check one out.

And yes it helps to have the schematic but. This guy is good, and mostly self taught I think.

Frankly, most people are simply not up to he task of repairing a circuit board with mostly surface mount components. They end up creating more problems than they solve. Even with schematics. And I say this as a retired Electrical Engineer with a long history of disassembling, and modifying or repairing circuits on circuit boards. It's not easy, and it's hard to do with the level of quality required for long term function.

Of course anyone is allowed to do anything they like to their vehicles, but if they fail in the process.. do not blame Honda.

There is a reason that electronic systems in modern vehicles like this BCM are considered field replaceable units. They are only certified to be repaired at the suppliers R&R depot. Heck, Honda techs are not even allowed to repair wiring harnesses now days.. they must be replaced. Reason: quality control over repairs in the field is problematic, and will negatively hit Honda as a brand in the long run.

 

[chidog]

Your correct about most not trying to work on them. I think it is crazy how many in the various video's don't respect ESD, that Louis guy is one that jokes about it. In the past I had problems because of it, ESD mitigation is the most important thing there is when working on or handling electronics nowadays. And not many care about it.
Surface mount? I worked at a place that had a middle aged woman that was the best ever for soldering with an iron doing circuit board work, I could never do what she did. This outfit built alot of their own product, if they had any circuit board work done out of house, when those came to our shop, all the misplaced and incorrect components were removed and the corrections made. All that was on purpose so it could not be copied. That is what that woman worked on mostly I think.
And one other thing, I like that Pine Hollow auto diagnostics guy as well as a few others that do similar work. I have always been one that went by the book and disconnect the battery before unplugging components, those guys almost never disconnect the battery, and never when unplugging even things like ECU or PCM etc. I've watched some disconnecting airbags and not disconnecting the battery either, I would never do that. So it would take alot to have a module damage some other component in these modern computer nightmares.
I bet no tech has ever checked the CAN system with these failed BCM's, using a scope.