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Discussion Starter #1
I was really looking forward to the new Hybrid but with the new tax being put on the the hybrids it is really killing it. My 2017 CRV touring is looking better all the time, after getting over the gas in the oil thing that quit at 12000 miles. These state law makers really amaze me to penalize those who want to help the environment and reduce the use of fossil fuel.........
 

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Try being in the idiocy of Europe over here.

All very well pushing for vehicle electrification - but as @RockyMtnCRV rightly points out, creating batteries is damaging for the environment too. All that mining.....sheesh!

And where does all that electricity come from - fossil fuels! Its a total fad and fallacy that electrification is the way forward. It isnt.


Nearly half of the UKs energy comes from bloody gas! And barely 16% is nuclear - the cleanest form of energy you can get!

The whole electric car bandwagon will be dropped like a hot potato like diesel when the (lying) politicians finally admit that there is no way any infrastructure can support millions of electric cars when a country like here, the UK, is already reaching capacity for electricity production.

The future lies in hydrogen fuel cell technology. The same technology that tree-molesting/hugging morons choose to ignore. I could go on, but you get my drift....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I would say that hydro- electric would be the cleanest and renewable, and the dams in our rivers are set up for the generators. I'll stick with 1.5 Honda for now, I see nothing any better out there....
 

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A few things and I don't know how important they are, maybe not at all for many of you.

The hybrid will have no spare tire, a deal killer for me.

Read an article that stated Honda is very heavy on getting away from gas engines to alternative for all countries and in the near future. PLEASE don't ask me to find that article again, you are all probably better at searching the Internet than I am.

Any finally, what is that 12,000 thing, must have missed that?

Thanks all, Acadia
 

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With Hybrids and Electric Plugin vehicles - the States are not getting enough fuel tax to fix the roads. Since politicians see Hybrids as the reason (it is not - it is the better MPG that new vehicles get). Instead of raising the gas tax which would solve the problem but keep them from getting re-elected. In the 1930's the fuel tax was more than the price of the untaxed fuel. If you want good roads and not band-aid to road repair, the fuel tax should be exactly the untaxed fuel cost. Ironically, we pay more in repair costs because of bad roads than the fuel tax increase would cost us.

Kansas for one has taxed Hybrids with an addition $150 year hybrid tax. Other states have done similar taxes.

Any advantage that a hybrid car/truck is no longer a monetary advantage - the battery packs that have to be replaced are more than the fuel cost savings (unless a gallon of gas exceeds $5.50 - the break even for the Honda Civic Hybrid - the Prius was at $6.20 due to a longer life battery).

Hydrogen powered fuel cells are a better solution - but still add over $20,000 to a vehicle and fueling stations are few and far between. The least environmental impact to making hydrogen is by breaking up natural gas.

Honda used to offer a CNG (compressed natural gas) Civic in Tulsa. That is probably the right answer for America. Too bad no politician has jumped on that band wagon. Oil companies vent excess natural gas into the atmosphere.

My 2 cents - your opinions may vary from mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I think 22 states already passed the law, the rest will follow due to they hate leaving good tax money on the table......
 

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Its the same in the UK.

The more the green-freak-army push people towards electric vehicles (needs be damned), revenue from tax via petrol/diesel fuel(s) will start to suffer and that means less in the Govt coffers.

In turn, that'll mean some sexed-up electric/hybrid tax to make up the shortfall. Only - the tree-huggers/battery-brigade cant see it.....idiots!
 

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LPG and CNG are steadily gaining popularity over here. Petrol and diesel taxes are raised every year (current price is $5.90/US gal for regular) with minimal effect on gases. I have one LPG van which is cheaper and cleaner to run than similar diesel. CNG is even cheaper and very clean emissions wise and you can produce it anywhere from anything rotten. It is the only fuel we do produce locally. Plenty of politicans' rotten morale for source.
 

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What states? What laws?
Some states are puting a special "fees" (not a tax, as taxes like this tend to get struck down by the courts) on electrics and sometimes hybrids.... because as consumers move away from gas powered engines.... the states are losing out on tax revenues from fuels. But honestly.. the fee is modest.. 50-200 dollars, according to: New Fees on Hybrid and Electric Vehicles though some states, like Georgia are at the top end of the range and have made it an annual fee.. so that will hurt electrics and hybrids sales greatly and consumers in general in Georgia. The irony here though is that these fees DO NOT generally make up for the loss of fuel tax revenues.. so there is something else at play here ---> oil industry lobbying.

The real issue though is ..... some conservative states, that are pro-oil industry and not progressive towards the environment are actually outlawing their prior generous tax credits that have fueled a lot of sales of electrics and hybrids. I see very clear signs of the oil lobbying groups at work here.
 

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The real issue though is ..... some conservative states, that are pro-oil industry and not progressive towards the environment are actually outlawing their prior generous tax credits that have fueled a lot of sales of electrics and hybrids. I see very clear signs of the oil lobbying groups at work here.
You know who knows the most about windmills, right? You know, studied it tremendously. Terrible fumes come out, and the birds, who doesn't love the birds, right?
 

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I think 22 states already passed the law, the rest will follow due to they hate leaving good tax money on the table......
Doubt the coastal states (West Coast and Northeast) will do so. That said, a mileage based fee would not be out of the question someday, and would improve the disparity if the gas tax is adjusted accordingly.
 

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With Hybrids and Electric Plugin vehicles - the States are not getting enough fuel tax to fix the roads. Since politicians see Hybrids as the reason (it is not - it is the better MPG that new vehicles get). Instead of raising the gas tax which would solve the problem but keep them from getting re-elected. In the 1930's the fuel tax was more than the price of the untaxed fuel. If you want good roads and not band-aid to road repair, the fuel tax should be exactly the untaxed fuel cost. Ironically, we pay more in repair costs because of bad roads than the fuel tax increase would cost us.

Kansas for one has taxed Hybrids with an addition $150 year hybrid tax. Other states have done similar taxes.

Any advantage that a hybrid car/truck is no longer a monetary advantage - the battery packs that have to be replaced are more than the fuel cost savings (unless a gallon of gas exceeds $5.50 - the break even for the Honda Civic Hybrid - the Prius was at $6.20 due to a longer life battery).

Hydrogen powered fuel cells are a better solution - but still add over $20,000 to a vehicle and fueling stations are few and far between. The least environmental impact to making hydrogen is by breaking up natural gas.

Honda used to offer a CNG (compressed natural gas) Civic in Tulsa. That is probably the right answer for America. Too bad no politician has jumped on that band wagon. Oil companies vent excess natural gas into the atmosphere.

My 2 cents - your opinions may vary from mine.
How is it possible that states are not getting enough fuel-tax revenue given that, to cite just one class of vehicle as an example, a long-haul truck's tractor gets about 7 mpg (and from what I understand, that is excellent mileage for the class)? And what about planes and all the fuel they require?
 

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Cars have gone from 14MPG to 26MPG since the Federal Fuel Tax on gasoline was last raised. That is not the only reason. The price of concrete has doubled and the price of asphalt has almost tripled since then. The price to replace an Interstate Bridge is 4 times what it was in 1991 when the tax was last raised. Most of our Interstate Highways are over 50 years old and need total replacement of the bridges at 750% of the cost to originally build them 50 years ago.
Trucks (at least Diesel ones) have a 50 cent per gallon extra fuel tax over gasoline. Still not enough money to cover road repairs. Trucks only cover about 20% of the cost to repair the roads but cause 80% of the wear and tear. We subsidize the trucking industry to keep grocery and other goods cost low. 70% of most items under $5.00 in your Walmart are the cost of shipping.
Aviation and Jet fuel tax goes to airport funds not road maintenance funds.
 

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Cars have gone from 14MPG to 26MPG since the Federal Fuel Tax on gasoline was last raised. That is not the only reason. The price of concrete has doubled and the price of asphalt has almost tripled since then. The price to replace an Interstate Bridge is 4 times what it was in 1991 when the tax was last raised. Most of our Interstate Highways are over 50 years old and need total replacement of the bridges at 750% of the cost to originally build them 50 years ago.
Trucks (at least Diesel ones) have a 50 cent per gallon extra fuel tax over gasoline. Still not enough money to cover road repairs. Trucks only cover about 20% of the cost to repair the roads but cause 80% of the wear and tear. We subsidize the trucking industry to keep grocery and other goods cost low. 70% of most items under $5.00 in your Walmart are the cost of shipping.
Aviation and Jet fuel tax goes to airport funds not road maintenance funds.
Good response....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It is funny that nobody ever says anything about the fuel that gets dumped on our environment when a plane has to get down to landing weight. It sure isn't dumped on the airport.... Maybe the best thing would be no fuel tax at all. Instead you pay by the miles traveled and by the weight of the vehicle. Bikes will still be free ..... lol.
 

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Doubt the coastal states (West Coast and Northeast) will do so. That said, a mileage based fee would not be out of the question someday, and would improve the disparity if the gas tax is adjusted accordingly.
7 coastal states have in fact.. already done so. New Fees on Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

As fuel economy continues to increase on gas engines, and electrics and hybrids grow in popularity.... the cost of maintaining road infrastructure does not go down, it actually goes up. So.. states are legislating ways to capture the shortfall... other then increasing actual state taxes on gas and diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
7 coastal states have in fact.. already done so. New Fees on Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

As fuel economy continues to increase on gas engines, and electrics and hybrids grow in popularity.... the cost of maintaining road infrastructure does not go down, it actually goes up. So.. states are legislating ways to capture the shortfall... other then increasing actual state taxes on gas and diesel.
Yes the cost of roads have gone up, but the added cost of sound walls added in plus bike paths added in also. None pay anything for this except is added on to the gas tax, if one guy complains about noise they have to erect a wall and the cost is astronomical. Bike path cost are very high and they ride on them for free...... all of this is added to the cost of the road is part of the reason the cost are so high. Engineering is an other cost, the road here had 7 studies done, they had more in that than if they would have done the road after the first one. Then they gave the money to float mass transit in the cities..They raised the gas tax 4 times before they did the road.....
 

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Yes the cost of roads have gone up, but the added cost of sound walls added in plus bike paths added in also. None pay anything for this except is added on to the gas tax, if one guy complains about noise they have to erect a wall and the cost is astronomical. Bike path cost are very high and they ride on them for free...... all of this is added to the cost of the road is part of the reason the cost are so high. Engineering is an other cost, the road here had 7 studies done, they had more in that than if they would have done the road after the first one. Then they gave the money to float mass transit in the cities..They raised the gas tax 4 times before they did the road.....
Move to somewhere like Zimbabwe and you won't have to worry about things like that. ?
 
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