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Discussion Starter #1

So do we just give up on the 2020 Hybrid CRV and wait for this thing. If Toyota could pull their head out of their butt and and Android Auto and XM to these models, I don't see any reason to buy the CRV. Besides just being a fanboy.
 

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So do we just give up on the 2020 Hybrid CRV and wait for this thing. If Toyota could pull their head out of their butt and and Android Auto and XM to these models, I don't see any reason to buy the CRV. Besides just being a fanboy.
I believe Toyota is adding Android Auto to the 2020 RAV4 models and haven't they had SXM since launch?
 

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Why would you "give up" on the 2020 CR-V Hybrid? Barring unforeseen catastrophe, It's clearly going to be on dealer floors rather sooner than a '21 Toyota.
 

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Why would you "give up" on the 2020 CR-V Hybrid? Barring unforeseen catastrophe, It's clearly going to be on dealer floors rather sooner than a '21 Toyota.
Maybe this:

The RAV4 Prime uses a tuned version of the 2.5-liter, four-cylinder gasoline engine. Combined with the electric motors, total system output is 302 HP, sent to all four wheels. It’s a plug-in hybrid and has an all-electric mode with an estimated range of 39 miles, which is very impressive. The combined fuel economy rating comes to a manufacturer-estimated 90 MPGe. Zero to 60 mph happens in a claimed 5.8 seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Why would you "give up" on the 2020 CR-V Hybrid? Barring unforeseen catastrophe, It's clearly going to be on dealer floors rather sooner than a '21 Toyota.
If the Rav4 Prime can get within a grand or two of the CRV in similar trim, there is no way I'd buy the CRV next year.

Extra 25% power would be an amazing thing in this size of vehicle.
 

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I was born in 1979. In late 1982, my mother got rid of her horrendous 1977 Dodge Dart in favor of a RWD 1983 Corolla. In 1986 my father bought my family's first Camry He drove it off the lot with exactly five miles on the odometer. I was seven years old, sitting in the back seat, but I was leaning forward with my hands and body squeezing between the plush and fuzzy bucket seats.

A year and a half later, my mother traded the Corolla for a 1988 Camry. In 1994, she traded that for a 1995 Camry. In late 1995, I was 16 and I told my father I was commandeering his 1986 Camry with 187K on the clock and he had to buy himself a replacement, so he bought a 1996 Camry that was stolen three months after delivery and stripped so badly it was declared a total loss. Then he bought another 1996 Camry to replace the stolen vehicle.

In 2004, we bought a used 1985 Camry. To say we were a bit obsessed is an understatement. The 1986 and 1996 vehicles both clocked over 300K original miles with us. I sold the 1996 after my father died in 2012 with 308K on the clock and I just recently got a Carfax update indicating its subsequent owner(s) have now driven it to a total of 392K and counting. I got careless and crashed the 1986 car with 332K in 2007 and I got rear-ended in the 1985 Camry in 2014. I hit the car in front of me, so I became the middle part of a three-car sandwich and the damage to the front and rear of the '85 car was too severe to save it.

In late 1995, after I hijacked possession of the 1986 Camry, we looked at the new Accord, Civic, Corolla, and Camry. On the Honda side, we loved the Civic, but hated that generation Accord. On the Toyota side, we liked both a lot, but the Camry was clearly a superior choice for its extra size and power over the Corolla. So it became a bit of an unfair fight between the '96 Civic and Camry. The Honda dealer called to follow up after our Civic test drive, and I told him we were simply more comfortable with Toyota. He said he has known lots of people on both sides of that coin, and they rarely ever switch over to the other team.

24 years later, sitting in a 2019 Honda feels similar to me to sitting in a 1996 Honda. Sitting in a 2019 Toyota feels like sitting in a spaceship. Toyota has betrayed me and in my opinion, betrayed itself, its roots, and its entire company history. After a brief (at least it's brief for me when it comes to cars and their longevity) digression to Nissan for the past six years, I'm scheduled to pick up my first Honda in exactly 24 hours. Wish me luck.

The 2019 Rav4 has a traditional oil filter, not like the Tacoma featured in the below video, but the Rav4 calls for 0W-16 full synthetic. Good luck getting that oil at Walmart or anywhere other than a Toyota dealer. It's an undeniably shameless cash grab. Makes me think whoever is running Toyota Motor Corporation has a lot of experience in taxation and government-sanctioned racketeering.


The 2021 Rogue looks more intimidating than the 2021 Rav4, regardless of combined horsepower. I wouldn't touch a Toyota with a 10 foot pole at this point. They have simply disappointed me too much and strayed too far from what made them great.
 

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I was born in 1979. In late 1982, my mother got rid of her horrendous 1977 Dodge Dart in favor of a RWD 1983 Corolla. In 1986 my father bought my family's first Camry He drove it off the lot with exactly five miles on the odometer. I was seven years old, sitting in the back seat, but I was leaning forward with my hands and body squeezing between the plush and fuzzy bucket seats.

A year and a half later, my mother traded the Corolla for a 1988 Camry. In 1994, she traded that for a 1995 Camry. In late 1995, I was 16 and I told my father I was commandeering his 1986 Camry with 187K on the clock and he had to buy himself a replacement, so he bought a 1996 Camry that was stolen three months after delivery and stripped so badly it was declared a total loss. Then he bought another 1996 Camry to replace the stolen vehicle.

In 2004, we bought a used 1985 Camry. To say we were a bit obsessed is an understatement. The 1986 and 1996 vehicles both clocked over 300K original miles with us. I sold the 1996 after my father died in 2012 with 308K on the clock and I just recently got a Carfax update indicating its subsequent owner(s) have now driven it to a total of 392K and counting. I got careless and crashed the 1986 car with 332K in 2007 and I got rear-ended in the 1985 Camry in 2014. I hit the car in front of me, so I became the middle part of a three-car sandwich and the damage to the front and rear of the '85 car was too severe to save it.

In late 1995, after I hijacked possession of the 1986 Camry, we looked at the new Accord, Civic, Corolla, and Camry. On the Honda side, we loved the Civic, but hated that generation Accord. On the Toyota side, we liked both a lot, but the Camry was clearly a superior choice for its extra size and power over the Corolla. So it became a bit of an unfair fight between the '96 Civic and Camry. The Honda dealer called to follow up after our Civic test drive, and I told him we were simply more comfortable with Toyota. He said he has known lots of people on both sides of that coin, and they rarely ever switch over to the other team.

24 years later, sitting in a 2019 Honda feels similar to me to sitting in a 1996 Honda. Sitting in a 2019 Toyota feels like sitting in a spaceship. Toyota has betrayed me and in my opinion, betrayed itself, its roots, and its entire company history. After a brief (at least it's brief for me when it comes to cars and their longevity) digression to Nissan for the past six years, I'm scheduled to pick up my first Honda in exactly 24 hours. Wish me luck.

The 2019 Rav4 has a traditional oil filter, not like the Tacoma featured in the below video, but the Rav4 calls for 0W-16 full synthetic. Good luck getting that oil at Walmart or anywhere other than a Toyota dealer. It's an undeniably shameless cash grab. Makes me think whoever is running Toyota Motor Corporation has a lot of experience in taxation and government-sanctioned racketeering.


The 2021 Rogue looks more intimidating than the 2021 Rav4, regardless of combined horsepower. I wouldn't touch a Toyota with a 10 foot pole at this point. They have simply disappointed me too much and strayed too far from what made them great.
Interesting username. :unsure:
 

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So you are old and cars changed and you didn't.

Are we still doing OK BOOMER?
More like cars got worse and I got better. I realize that's some vaguely obscure political reference, but the youngest "boomer" is at least 15 years older than me. You can call me Boomer. He pitched a Perfect Game.

Interesting username. :unsure:
Reference to song lyrics. Can you guess which Boomer wrote them? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't some corporate hack who writes all of Taylor Swift's albums for maximum commercial appeal.
 

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The Rav4 Prime will qualify for federal tax credits (likely ~$5K-$6K) whereas the CRV Hybird...doesn't.
Not if Toyota has already reached their volume limit on the tax credit. And with the limited range (39 miles), it may not qualify for the full tax credit regardless.


It may, or it may not. I encourage people to research first before committing to buy.
 

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The 2019 Rav4 has a traditional oil filter, not like the Tacoma featured in the below video, but the Rav4 calls for 0W-16 full synthetic. Good luck getting that oil at Walmart or anywhere other than a Toyota dealer. It's an undeniably shameless cash grab. Makes me think whoever is running Toyota Motor Corporation has a lot of experience in taxation and government-sanctioned racketeering.
Most Japanese manufacturers haver already moved to 0W-16 in their Japan fleets... and are now beginning to proliferate across their markets. It is an industry move, not some cash grab conspiracy. So.. 0W-16 is inevitable for most new generation vehicles.

Sure.. 0W-16 will be a bit difficult to source economically initially in the US... but the oil producers will quickly fill that void as demand from home mechanics kicks in. So your concern expressed is temporary at worst.
 

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If the Rav4 Prime can get within a grand or two of the CRV in similar trim, there is no way I'd buy the CRV next year.

Extra 25% power would be an amazing thing in this size of vehicle.

If I recall correctly, RAV4s generally cost a good bit more for the same trim/features compared to a CRV, and have for some years now. I think the only thing that could make the RAV4 plugin hybrid cross over the price curve to compete with the CRV would be if it is eligible for a solid tax credit. There is more advantage in price for a plugin hybrid RAV4 in states like California who also have a tax credit to add on top of whatever federal EPA tax credit the RAV4 ends up qualifying for.

I agree more horsepower will appeal to some owners, yet they will pay a price for that both in purchase and in ongoing costs since more horsepower is never free.... even in a plug-in hybrid.

Personally, I would pass on the mid-life refresh CRV hybrid and wait for the 2022 full refresh as it will be a better a brand new generation, and when comparing to the 2021 RAV4.... it is a better objective comparison of essentially current generation offerings by both companies. When the new CRV comes out, it may very well once again blow away the newest generation RAV4. Time will tell of course.
 

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Not if Toyota has already reached their volume limit on the tax credit. And with the limited range (39 miles), it may not qualify for the full tax credit regardless.


It may, or it may not. I encourage people to research first before committing to buy.
They’re not close to the phaseout yet, and the credit is a direct function of the battery size, not range. Presumably the battery pack will be larger than the Prius Prime, so it should be at least $4500. If it’s the size of the Mitsubishi PHEV battery you’re looking at close to $6000
 

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The 2019 Rav4 has a traditional oil filter, not like the Tacoma featured in the below video, but the Rav4 calls for 0W-16 full synthetic. Good luck getting that oil at Walmart or anywhere other than a Toyota dealer. It's an undeniably shameless cash grab. Makes me think whoever is running Toyota Motor Corporation has a lot of experience in taxation and government-sanctioned racketeering.
I live in BFE where the nearest Toyota dealership is 70 miles away and just checked online, 5qt jugs of Mobil 1 0W-16 is in stock at Walmart, Autozone, and O'Reilly.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Why would you want to use thicker oil before the engine has high mileage?
Because 0w16 and 0w20 are used in the USA for emissions purposes and other countries use thicker oils.

Thicker oil provides better wear protection and as long as you use a weight that works at the correct winter temps, it's not issue.
 

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If the Rav4 Prime can get within a grand or two of the CRV in similar trim, there is no way I'd buy the CRV next year.

Extra 25% power would be an amazing thing in this size of vehicle.
Agreed... except the 2021 RAV4 Hybrid Prime Plug-in will be WAY more expensive than the 2020 CRV Hybrid.

I'm guessing the RAV4 Prime will be at least US$55,000 out-the-door.

And if there's no tax credit?

My estimated price breakdown:
-- $37k for 2020 RAV4 Hybrid Limited
-- Add $10k for 302hp Prime Plug-in package
-- Add $3k for option packages (Tech, Weather, Protective)
-- Add $2k for typical extras
-- Tax, license, registration, delivery, extended warranty.
-- Maybe ~$3k dealer markup.

That is, initially I bet the RAV4 Prime is offered only on a restricted-availability loaded top-of-the-line Limited model.

And even if it's eventually offered on a base model, I expect the RAV4 Prime will still be $10k-ish more expensive than a comparable CRV Hybrid.

No thanks.

Instead, to replace my current 2011 CRV SE AWD, I'll be looking for a base CRV Hybrid hopefully around $30k.
 
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