[TheDarkKnight]

New thread as the last one has been retired due to members not obeying the Site Rules and spoiling that thread.

So we've started afresh....

Thanks.

 

[Ausviolin]

Hi all,

First time posting. I have a 2018 EX-L with just over 50,000. While on the highway, and about 4 hours from home, I had the CEL come on with an Emissions System Problem warning. Tonight I stopped by my local O'Reilly's and asked them to check the code for me. It came back as P219D. A local mechanic just happened to be at the shop and said he thought it might just be a dirty oxygen sensor due to some bad gas. Do you think I'm going to get that lucky, and does this seem like a reasonable explanation? If it is a bad sensor, and because it is a Powertrain error code, would it be covered under the 6 yr/unlimited mileage warranty due to the OD TSB? The part is about $130 through O'Reilly's.

Ps. Would this error also impact my remote start? I can get the engine to turn over using the remote start sequence on the fob but then it immediately shuts down.

 

[TRMPyro]

Here is my experience with Honda related to the fuel injectors...We have a 2017 CR-V with 127k miles, and we started seeing the all systems alarming while the car was idling for an extended period (wife stays in the car while I run into a store). I would pull the trouble code and it was "too rich bank one" or P0172. This went on for a while, then got worse, and was accompanied by the "Emmissions System Problem" or P219F I believe, and a noticeable rich smell. We also had a battery issue in the middle of all of this, which Honda felt was a cause, which it was not. I finally dropped the car off again this week and was met with "you need 4 new injectors, they are all running rich". I had to bring up the TSB related to the direct injection, so they went down that path a bit. Problem is that the code listed in the TSB was not currently on the vehicle. I have pulled the P0172 numerous times, should have let it set before taking it in, but did not. We also have the whirling noise listed in the TSB. They went through the service bulletin and completed the tasks based on the codes they saw. The injector failure is not covered under the extended warranty, and was told by Honda that there are no campaigns related to injectors for our vehicle. I was met with a $1800 bill for the work, which I feel is excessive, but it is what it is. If I knew they would not consider a warranty for this problem, I would have taken to another shop and potentially saved several hundred dollars. My wife said the car runs and sounds much better, hoping this takes care of the issue.

 

[Ausviolin]

Here is my experience with Honda related to the fuel injectors...We have a 2017 CR-V with 127k miles, and we started seeing the all systems alarming while the car was idling for an extended period (wife stays in the car while I run into a store). I would pull the trouble code and it was "too rich bank one" or P0172. This went on for a while, then got worse, and was accompanied by the "Emmissions System Problem" or P219F I believe, and a noticeable rich smell. We also had a battery issue in the middle of all of this, which Honda felt was a cause, which it was not. I finally dropped the car off again this week and was met with "you need 4 new injectors, they are all running rich". I had to bring up the TSB related to the direct injection, so they went down that path a bit. Problem is that the code listed in the TSB was not currently on the vehicle. I have pulled the P0172 numerous times, should have let it set before taking it in, but did not. We also have the whirling noise listed in the TSB. They went through the service bulletin and completed the tasks based on the codes they saw. The injector failure is not covered under the extended warranty, and was told by Honda that there are no campaigns related to injectors for our vehicle. I was met with a $1800 bill for the work, which I feel is excessive, but it is what it is. If I knew they would not consider a warranty for this problem, I would have taken to another shop and potentially saved several hundred dollars. My wife said the car runs and sounds much better, hoping this takes care of the issue.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Honda is currently running through the procedures listed in the TBS. They did say the P0172 code had been thrown. They are going to check spark plugs next I guess. Since we have had the car less than 3 years, but are over the mileage limit I think it is worth trying to go down the Goodwill Warranty path to see what might come of it.

 

[TRMPyro]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Honda is currently running through the procedures listed in the TBS. They did say the P0172 code had been thrown. They are going to check spark plugs next I guess. Since we have had the car less than 3 years, but are over the mileage limit I think it is worth trying to go down the Goodwill Warranty path to see what might come of it.

Good luck with the Goodwill Warranty, I am not a nice enough person to sway the dealership. I was even told by one of the technicians, that if I reach out to Honda, be nice. I was not rude/mean, just am a noticeably agitated person when thousands of dollars are involved. I am unable to turn that switch the other way.

 

[williamsji]

Good luck with the Goodwill Warranty, I am not a nice enough person to sway the dealership. I was even told by one of the technicians, that if I reach out to Honda, be nice. I was not rude/mean, just am a noticeably agitated person when thousands of dollars are involved. I am unable to turn that switch the other way.

You know, you kind of shoot yourself in your own feet with this aggressive approach.

I think most of us get a bit wound up when facing a large unexpected cost for something. So, it is all about how we approach it as to how things turn out. I personally believe in building relationships with the dealership, as it DOES pay dividends for me doing so. I get discounts pre-issued to me for routine maintenance. I get additional spot discounts when I visit the dealership. I get great interaction with service reps when I come in and they immediately see I am a long time customer. I have no issues when I want to speak with a service tech getting a service tech out to discuss with me or take a test drive for an issue. If I ever have an issue or concern, they make it very clear that the service managers door is open and I am free to reach out.

Your choice of course. But when it is you that are on the need side of the equation, your approach will generally not work well and I would add will not make you feel better by somehow feeling like you "stuck it to the man" or something. Even from a purely self-interested point of view, it makes more sense to work with your dealer on something like this. There is no downside, and in this case it would have eliminated over $1000 in cost for the injectors and rail.

Something to think about, for next time.

That said, I have yet to see a good-will warranty move by Honda on a CRV with your miles on it for the injectors. The limit appears to be somewhere in the 80-90 K range. With your miles on the CRV, even if you lived in one of the states that applies California emissions laws, your injectors are out of that long term warranty as well.

 

[jeffdanger]

Here is my experience with Honda related to the fuel injectors...We have a 2017 CR-V with 127k miles, and we started seeing the all systems alarming while the car was idling for an extended period (wife stays in the car while I run into a store). I would pull the trouble code and it was "too rich bank one" or P0172. This went on for a while, then got worse, and was accompanied by the "Emmissions System Problem" or P219F I believe, and a noticeable rich smell. We also had a battery issue in the middle of all of this, which Honda felt was a cause, which it was not. I finally dropped the car off again this week and was met with "you need 4 new injectors, they are all running rich". I had to bring up the TSB related to the direct injection, so they went down that path a bit. Problem is that the code listed in the TSB was not currently on the vehicle. I have pulled the P0172 numerous times, should have let it set before taking it in, but did not. We also have the whirling noise listed in the TSB. They went through the service bulletin and completed the tasks based on the codes they saw. The injector failure is not covered under the extended warranty, and was told by Honda that there are no campaigns related to injectors for our vehicle. I was met with a $1800 bill for the work, which I feel is excessive, but it is what it is. If I knew they would not consider a warranty for this problem, I would have taken to another shop and potentially saved several hundred dollars. My wife said the car runs and sounds much better, hoping this takes care of the issue.

So just a question here--are you saying you have the Honda Extended Warranty and it doesn't cover the injectors? I'm considering getting one when my initial warranty is just about up but this may make me rethink that idea.

 

[Grpass]

So just a question here--are you saying you have the Honda Extended Warranty and it doesn't cover the injectors? I'm considering getting one when my initial warranty is just about up but this may make me rethink that idea.

I believe he is talking about the extended warranty associated with the fuel problem and the whirling sound from the engine. Not a Hondacare warranty.

 

[jeffdanger]

I believe he is talking about the extended warranty associated with the fuel problem and the whirling sound from the engine. Not a Hondacare warranty.

Thanks--that sounds right.

 

[Traylaw]

Honda hasn't mentioned a possible cause for the failures of the fuel injectors in the 2017 and possibly earily 2018 CRVs. Some members have speculated that there was a quality control issue due to the fact that Honda is simple replacing the injectors with a new injector with exact same part number. This idea seems to be corroborated by Honda in other vehicles of similar vintage with DI engines using injectors from the same manufacturer Keihin. Attached is a TSB for the Ridgeline, Pilot, and Oddessy where Honda speculates that debris during the manufacturing process is causing the issue.

 

[williamsji]

So just a question here--are you saying you have the Honda Extended Warranty and it doesn't cover the injectors? I'm considering getting one when my initial warranty is just about up but this may make me rethink that idea.

HondaCare definitely covers fuel injectors. The only things not covered are cosmetic trim items, paint finish, wear items like battery, brake pads/rotors, fluids, or owner induced damage or negligence.

Read the HondaCare policy coverage online at Honda, and set your mind at ease. Trust but verify any claim made by anyone on the internet.

 

[crv affair]

We also have the whirling noise listed in the TSB.

May I ask what was done for this? I do believe that they inspect the camshafts for damage and replace them if anything is found, were they replaced?

 

[williamsji]

May I ask what was done for this? I do believe that they inspect the camshafts for damage and replace them if anything is found, where they replaced?

That particular TSB would call for replacement of the camshafts, if inspection showed the classic wear conditions noted in the TSB.

As with most Honda TSBs, if they are conditional service actions, there is an inspection and test criteria to determine if the TSB applies to a particular VIN. Whirring sound is one test on this TSB and Honda even provides dealers an actual audio recording for comparison. But they also have to pull open the engine and inspect the camshafts for abnormal wear too.

 

[jeffdanger]

HondaCare definitely covers fuel injectors. The only things not covered are cosmetic trim items, paint finish, wear items like battery, brake pads/rotors, fluids, or owner induced damage or negligence.

Read the HondaCare policy coverage online at Honda, and set your mind at ease. Trust but verify any claim made by anyone on the internet.

Thanks. I did read the Honda Care Warranty and that prompted my question when I saw the poster mention warranty.

 

[Crv7788]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Honda is currently running through the procedures listed in the TBS. They did say the P0172 code had been thrown. They are going to check spark plugs next I guess. Since we have had the car less than 3 years, but are over the mileage limit I think it is worth trying to go down the Goodwill Warranty path to see what might come of it.

They are going to check spark plugs next

You mean they want to install new plugs. This won't fix anything.

 

[TRMPyro]

You know, you kind of shoot yourself in your own feet with this aggressive approach.

I think most of us get a bit wound up when facing a large unexpected cost for something. So, it is all about how we approach it as to how things turn out. I personally believe in building relationships with the dealership, as it DOES pay dividends for me doing so. I get discounts pre-issued to me for routine maintenance. I get additional spot discounts when I visit the dealership. I get great interaction with service reps when I come in and they immediately see I am a long time customer. I have no issues when I want to speak with a service tech getting a service tech out to discuss with me or take a test drive for an issue. If I ever have an issue or concern, they make it very clear that the service managers door is open and I am free to reach out.

Your choice of course. But when it is you that are on the need side of the equation, your approach will generally not work well and I would add will not make you feel better by somehow feeling like you "stuck it to the man" or something. Even from a purely self-interested point of view, it makes more sense to work with your dealer on something like this. There is no downside, and in this case it would have eliminated over $1000 in cost for the injectors and rail.

Something to think about, for next time.

That said, I have yet to see a good-will warranty move by Honda on a CRV with your miles on it for the injectors. The limit appears to be somewhere in the 80-90 K range. With your miles on the CRV, even if you lived in one of the states that applies California emissions laws, your injectors are out of that long term warranty as well.

Appreciate the effort you put in to that post, but I am unable/unwilling to change my personality. I have no desire to have a relationship with my dealership, and they have proven they feel the same way. I have a mechanic shop that I have an awesome relationship with, but did not go there in hopes it was a warranty item. My normal mechanic shop will get my business going forward. The fact that they asked for me to pay for hours of the technician to investigate the TSB is ridiculous. The fact I had to bring up the TSB is ridiculous. The fact that I paid for an oil change because it was contaminated with fuel, due to the direct injection issue, related to the TSB, is ridiculous...my perspective of course, you handle your dealer as you prefer.

Anyway, back to the topic....to answer one of the other questions, I had both the extended Honda warranty as well as the direct injection warranty extension, but at 127K miles, I am beyond the the first, and injectors are not covered in the other. For the TSB, they ran a specified procedure and confirmed the code that was currently on the car, then followed the service bulletin procedure, including comparing the whirling noise to a provided audio file, and inspecting internal engine components.

For now, the car is running good and no noise, no vibration at startup, no issue at extended idle, no rich smell while idling....so hopefully we are good for a while.

 

[richman555]

I had the same issue as many here about a month ago for my 2018 Honda CRV about 55k miles in January 2022. All of my warning lights just came on at once and would not reset. I took my car to the dealer, they seemed surprised... after further inspection... they said I needed new fuel injectors. The good news according to them was that I had an extended warranty and it was covered.

 

[Ausviolin]

You mean they want to install new plugs. This won't fix anything.

They replaced the spark plugs, said they tested everything, and drove the car and it seemed fine. Emissions System Warning CEL came on again within 5 miles of driving home. They just inspected the camshafts today and said that 2 were showing signs of damage as listed in the TBS. They are sending pics to Honda as I type this to get the parts released. I still think its an injector/HP pump issue. We'll see what happens. Worried I'm burning through all my goodwill while they go through the 3 steps of the TBS.

 

[2017GunmetalCRV]

Really good news but also some bad news. So my dealer charged 765.55 for fuel injector replacement. I'm not sure why it's so much less than other owners but that was the total. 479.93 for parts and 375.72 labor plus applied a coupon for $90 off. I continued to persist with Honda corporate and asked for an escalation to the supervisor. The supervisor approved a $400 credit to be used towards future service. So despite having 110k on odometer they still mailed me the credit. I highly recommend asking for a supervisor if you get denied for the goodwill. The bad news is that When I was looking under the hood I discovered the coolant overflow tank was empty. I brought this to the dealers attention and they said that coolant just needed to be replaced. However, my car was still rough idling despite new injectors. I did some research online and found one other CRV owner who had the same issue which was a blown head gasket. I brought it back to them three times and each time mentioned the head gasket (they kept refusing to check bc they said that it's too unlikely) which eventually led to them performing a leak down test and confirming that the had gasket is blown. I believe this may have happened due to the fuel injectors failing because I was driving the car for a couple of months as it was misfiring and the car was running extremely rough, So I think it put too much stress on the head gasket. Anyway, that was the last straw and so I traded the car a couple of days ago. The lesson is that if you're getting warning lights and the car is running rough, Don't wait for Honda corporate to get back to you about the credit, just go ahead and fix it and deal with them later. I hope this helps.

 

[Ausviolin]

Update: Thye ran a fuel test at the same time as checking the camshaft issue and finally saw that 3 out of 4 injectors where throwing a code. Looks like they are replacing those at the same time as they replace the camshaft. My dealer has been great to work with. They got me a rental while they wait on parts and do the work. Everything so far has been under warranty. Hopefully no surprise bill when I pick it up tomorrow morning.