Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello Forum!
My name is Gary, from Hornchurch, Essex (UK).

First of all, may I start by by saying a huge thanks to many members on this forum, as I have been lurking and using the knowledge from this forum for quite a while, and have had some very useful tips over that time.
But now I need the answer to a problem I have, and despite searching, can't seem to find it. (Of course this might mean I am just bad at searching!!)

OK, here goes:
I have a 2005 CRV, fitted with a Sony XAV 602BT HU with satnav.
I will very shortly be getting a pair of Hertz Dieci DSK 165.3 speakers for the front doors (Hope they fit!!), an Alpine PMX-F640 4 ch amp, and want some sort of sub too.
There lies my problem.
I am a photographer, and when out shooting, I often fold the rear seats down and load the boot up with equipment. Because of this, I can't have (and don't want) a big box taking up room.

I would appreciate advice on where to place the amp too.

So, my question is, what are my options?
Would it be possible to install a sub somewhere in the car, or is it possible to put a pair of rear speakers which would do the job of a sub?

Any general advice on specs so far gladly accepted too.

Thanks to you all in advance.
Cheers,
Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yours has the spare tire mounted inside under the floor?

Maybe able to use a Bose set up out of an RSX as they have a sub that sits in the spare tire under the floor
Thanks for the quick reply.
My spare is mounted to the exterior on the back door, so there is a spare wheel well under the floor.
Has anyone used this space to fit a sub? If so, which sub would fit there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
You can fit any sub in that wheel well as long as you have a good fabricator to make you a decent subwoofer box...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
You can fit any sub in that wheel well as long as you have a good fabricator to make you a decent subwoofer box...
Thanks for your reply.
I agree, there seems to be a fair bit of room there, although I would rather buy something off the shelf if that's possible.
I suspect having a custom made one might be more than I am prepared to pay !

Any-one using the wheel well for an off the shelf sub?
If so, which one? Any pics would be good.
Cheers,
Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Someone on these forums basically just threw a bazooka (tube) sub in his compartment, under the folding table.

Personally for me, I'm a sound quality guy, and that wouldn't fly in my vehicle. I'd personally look at replacing the rear speakers with 6.5" mid bass woofers.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i504_6-1-2-car-subwoofers.html

They're a bit of a bitch to install, because of their depth, but they should suit you fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Someone on these forums basically just threw a bazooka (tube) sub in his compartment, under the folding table.

Personally for me, I'm a sound quality guy, and that wouldn't fly in my vehicle. I'd personally look at replacing the rear speakers with 6.5" mid bass woofers.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i504_6-1-2-car-subwoofers.html

They're a bit of a bitch to install, because of their depth, but they should suit you fine.
Thanks for that reply.
Fitting something in the rear speaker slots was something which I was thinking about.
So, forgive the stupid question, but would I need a pair, or would one do the job?
And if a pair is required, how are they driven by the amp?
In other words, made simple for the hard of thinking (that's me !), would a 4 channel amp still do the job of driving it all?
Again, forgive the stupid questions, but I really am that new !!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Thanks for that reply.
Fitting something in the rear speaker slots was something which I was thinking about.
So, forgive the stupid question, but would I need a pair, or would one do the job?
And if a pair is required, how are they driven by the amp?
In other words, made simple for the hard of thinking (that's me !), would a 4 channel amp still do the job of driving it all?
Again, forgive the stupid questions, but I really am that new !!
They come in pairs of two.

These for example JL-Audio-6W3V3-4 are 4ohm speakers.

Your amp should be able to output 150W (RMS) x 4 channels @ 4ohm, in order to take advantage of these speakers. Which in plain english means, you need a 600W(RMS) 4-channel @ 4ohm amp, at bare minimum to take advantage of the power of these speakers.

Something like this would do (see the specs for 4 channels @ 4ohm): Power-Acoustik-RZ4-2000D. This would provide PLENTY of power for your front speakers, you'd probably only be using about 50-60% gain. And would be able to safely run 75-80% gain in the rear, for your powerful midbass drivers, without worrying about over driving either component.

Technically, you always want to spec your amp 20% greater power than your speakers. But unless you're building for perfection, something around 150rms/channel is perfect.


I say just find equipment that fits your needs by space and power consumption requirements. Match your speaker impedance (4ohm or 2ohm) to your amp, and always try to buy matching or slightly higher power than your speakers. And ignore peak wattage ratings, deal in watts RMS alone.

If you have trouble finding matching impedance speakers, there are ways to increase or decrease the impedance with wiring techniques.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Again, thank you for taking the time to reply.
I have had a quick look, and I can't seem to find a UK dealer for the Power - Acoustic amp you quoted.
I would rather shop "locally", or at least buy from a UK supplier simply in case I need to return in case of problems etc.
Now you have pointed out the basics to me, which I appreciate very much, I will try and sort out a few options.

My speaker choice for the fronts is the Hertz Diece 165.3 here :
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hertz-dieci-dsk-165-3
A friend of mine has these, and they sound great running off an Alpine Alpine PMX-F640 amp, but that's all that runs off his amp.

The problem I am having, is the more I read, the more I get confused !!
But I am determined to do this, and will do whatever it takes to understand it all, even if it means banging my head against many brick walls.

Again, thanks, I appreciate your help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
It's really not all that bad to wrap your head around... So the speakers you've shown here look great! A nice component set!

2-way 16.5cm component speakers
6.5" woofer, 25mm (1") Tweeter
80W RMS power handling (160W peak)
Frequency response: 50-23kHz
Impendence: 4-ohms
Sensitivity: 93 dB/Spl
Outer diameter: 166mm
Mounting hole diameter: 142mm
Mounting depth: 68mm
Crossover included: 3.5kHz crossover frequency, 6/12dB Oct
So you have 4ohm speakers here (likely 2ohm each, and when combined through the crossover, become 4ohm), which is great news! Now, you need to identify some 6.5" subwoofers for the rear. Do not confuse them with component drivers, like what you have for the front. They need to be specific to low frequencies and generally have a large magnet attached to the rear.

Your current power requirement for the front is 80-100W RMS. See if you can find 6.5" subwoofers that are around 150W RMS, with a 4ohm impedance, approx 30-300hz freq response.

The amp we can figure out after.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Wow, thanks again for the response.
OK, so I have found these: Earthquake Sound SWS-6.5X
Although I'm not sure they would fit, depthwise, they do say they are "slimline".
Again, bit confusing looking for these, there doesn't seem to be a huge choice.
There were some which had a single 4ohm coil, and others which have twin 2 ohm coils.
Being a slim model, I guess these won't be as "good" (soundwise) as a 12" sub in a box in the cargo space?
Do you think these would be OK, spec-wise?
Feel free to make any other recommendations, even if that recommendation is a different path, bass-wise to this.
Again, thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,001 Posts
Thanks for the quick reply.
My spare is mounted to the exterior on the back door, so there is a spare wheel well under the floor.
Has anyone used this space to fit a sub? If so, which sub would fit there?
I had a 8" Powered Bazooka in my 2000 CRV's tub and it was great Bass. Best part is nobody knew it was there being out of site, and out of the way!

I miss not having the tub & picnic table in my 2009 CRV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Wow, thanks again for the response.
OK, so I have found these: Earthquake Sound SWS-6.5X
Although I'm not sure they would fit, depthwise, they do say they are "slimline".
Again, bit confusing looking for these, there doesn't seem to be a huge choice.
There were some which had a single 4ohm coil, and others which have twin 2 ohm coils.
Being a slim model, I guess these won't be as "good" (soundwise) as a 12" sub in a box in the cargo space?
Do you think these would be OK, spec-wise?
Feel free to make any other recommendations, even if that recommendation is a different path, bass-wise to this.
Again, thank you.
Hey no problemo, that's why were on here. To share our knowledge!

So first off, your concern about the depth... Im pretty sure that your front door speakers are taller than these haha. The sonicelectronix website had poor specs on these speakers, so I pulled them off of the earthquake website:

Model: SWS-6.5X
EAN: 0-168975-910172

Size: 6.5" high performance sub
Fs: 39Hz
Max Power: 200W
RMS Power: 100W
Impedance: 4Ω
Sensitivity: 77.3dB


100W RMS puts you in the right ballpark. Not the most power demanding, but it makes sense for value and size.
Impedance matches.
And the size is right, 6.5" with 1.75" mounting depth.

Check, check and check.

FS is in the right range for a subwoofer, so that's good.
The sensitivity is a little low, seeing as your other speakers are up in the 90dB range. But that's okay, they're only making bass.

So, if you do want to pick these up, you'll be in good shape. However, if you wanted to select something better (higher sensitivity would be my area of improvement) it wouldnt hurt any. Also, dual 2ohm voice coils are viable speakers for this setup.

And just to mess with your head (haha =P) there is also the option of putting a slim 8-10" sub under one of your seats. This changes everything, but I'm just gonna put it out there. This is actually what these slimline speakers are built for, but they dual purpose as a door speaker with the 6.5" size.

Anyhow, now that the speakers are selected... We add all four power ratings together for two front, and two back speakers. 80+80+100+100=360 then add 20%... 360x1.2=432w RMS is your ideal amplifier power rating. Try to find an amp that is rated for 4x120w RMS @ 4ohms. Look for higher sensitivity models, with a Mosfet power supply. And make sure it has LPF & HPF (low pass and high pass filters). And pay attention to the fuses. Most amps are under/over rated, so you have to catch them in their lies. You add all the fuses together, then multiply by 10, that's the actual power rating.

Power-Acoustik-REP4-1400 is a good example of a cheap amp that will do the trick. It's rated for 120w x4 @ 4ohms, which means 480w RMS. But the fusing is at 25A x2, which means it's actually rated for 500w RMS. It also boasts a 104 Signal to Noise Ratio (StNR or sensitivity rating), MOSFET power, LPF/HPF, and is only 9"x12"x2" dimension wise.

Also, an alternative solution, would be to use an amp rated at around 240w RMS x 4 channels @ 2ohms, because you just divide the power in half, and that's your 4ohm rating. Something like this Autotek-Mean-Machine-M2000.4 is rated at 1000w RMS, which is insane because it is (rated) capable of 250w x 4 channels @ 2 ohm. But somehow only has a 60A fuse, which means it's really a 600w RMS amp. It has all the regular goodies, but does not have as high of a StNR rating as the previous amp.

I just wanted to show you how to spot the BS, and point out what's important. Just know this: Once you start buying amps from the big guys like Rockford Fosgate, MB Quart (my favourite for bass amps), Polk Audio, Pioneer, JL Audio or JBL, ect... You get a more stable product, that has more standard/normal ratings, with generally higher StNR and under rated RMS statements. The smaller guys will try to confuse you, they're often caught puffing their chests. And, whatever you do, do NOT buy a Sony amp, bad experiences here.

I had a 8" Powered Bazooka in my 2000 CRV's tub and it was great Bass. Best part is nobody knew it was there being out of site, and out of the way!

I miss not having the tub & picnic table in my 2009 CRV.
This is who I was talking about, I forgot it was you Rickman! This might be a good alternative if you wanted to go down a different road scub.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
OK, still looking for advice here.
The speakers I previously mentioned are difficult to find here in the UK, and with the shipping costs, become quite expensive.
However, I have found these:

Rockford Fosgate PPS4-6 6.5" Mid-Range Driver.

Product features:

6-1/2" Punch Series Mid-Range Car Speaker Driver
Power Handling:
Peak: 200 watts each
RMS: 100 watts each
CEA-2031 compliant speakers
Fiber-reinforced high strength Paper cone material
Corrugated and treated "W" style Cloth speaker surround
4 ohms impedance
Non-fatiguing tear resistant Poly-Cotton spider
High-temperature Aluminum voice coil
Oversize magnet motor structure
Metal push spring terminals for a sturdy connection
Billet machined aluminum phase plug for even sound dispersion
Stamp-cast Aluminum speaker frame reduces noise cancellation
Periodic-stitched fatigue resistant lead wire
Rubber magnet boot cover
Grilles and mounting hardware included
Frequency response: 85-5,000 Hz
Top-mount depth: 2-1/4"
Sensitivity: 93dB
Sold as individual units (not in pairs)
Authorised Internet Dealer
1-year Manufacturer's Warranty

As you can see, the sensitivity is higher, at 93dB. What do you think of them?

So, to recap I have the following on my shopping list:

If the above are suitable, they will be my subs in the rear doors.

Front speakers:

Hertz Dieci DSK 165.3 Component speakers 6.5"

AMP:

Was looking at this amp.

Ground Zero Iridium GZIA4115 HPX

Here are the specs:

Specification

Ground Zero Iridium GZIA 4115HPX
4 Channel Class AB Amplifier
1000W Total Max Ouput Power
230W Per Channel Max Power
RMS Output Power @ 4 Ohm (CEA*) 4 x 70 W
RMS Output Power @ 2 Ohm (CEA*) 4 x 115 W
RMS Bridge mode @ 4 Ohm (CEA* / 10% THD) 2 x 250 W
Lowpass Filter 30 - 250 Hz
Highpass Filter 40 - 3000 Hz
Dimensions 28.5 x 21.3 x 5 cm / 11.22" x 8.39" x 1.97

*The WRMS output power is based on the CEA Standard CEA-2006-A ( 14.4V, 1% THD) tested and approved.

Would this do the job?

If I've got any of it wrong, please feel free to offer any other solutions !!

Thanks again,
Gary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
OR, this could be another contender for the amp, maybe?

Vibe SLICK Stereo 4-V1 - 4/3/2 Channel Amp 800 Watts Peak 400 Watts RMS

Specs:


Type: 4/3/2 Channel Amplifier
Dimensions: (HxWxD) 58mm x 261mm x 163mm
RMS @ 4 Ohm Stereo : 4 x 75Watts
RMS @ 2 Ohm Stereo : 4 x 100Watts
RMS @ 4 Ohm Mono : 2 x 200Watts
Max Power : 800Watts
Freq Response : 20Hz - 20kHz
SNR : 93 dB
Crossover Type : LP / HP / Flat
Crossover Range : 45Hz-300Hz
I quite like this one, as it is physically a smaller unit, so would be easier to hide, although it's physical size isn't a deal-breaker.
Any opinions on Vibe amps?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
OK, final one for now is this one:

JBL GTO804EZ - 4 Channel 80 watts RMS x 4 Amplifier

Specs :


4-channel amplifier, bridgeable into 3 or 2-channel mode.
80 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (100 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms)
200 watts RMS x 2 bridged at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable in bridged mode)
Frequency response: 20-23,000 Hz
Class AB amp technology
Variable low- and high pass filters (40-220 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Variable bass boost on rear channels (0-12 dB at 45 Hz)
Simple Setup System with test tone CD for perfect gain setting
routing switch for 2-channel sources
Preamp outputs
Preamp and speaker-level inputs (speaker wire-to-RCA adapters included)
Switchable automatic signal-sensing turns on amp without need for remote lead
fuse rating: 25A x 2
Dimensions: 11-15/16"W x 2-9/16"H x 9-11/16"D

Gets good reviews, whether that means anything.

Ok, those are the three contenders.
Opinions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Any of those amps will get the job done, but those mid-drivers are no good for this application. If you're going to install mid drivers, just get two components sets like what you're purchasing for the front, because they'll at least match.

Might just be easier to use Rickmans sub tube under the picnic table. Or get some slimlines under your seats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Any of those amps will get the job done, but those mid-drivers are no good for this application. If you're going to install mid drivers, just get two components sets like what you're purchasing for the front, because they'll at least match.

Might just be easier to use Rickmans sub tube under the picnic table. Or get some slimlines under your seats.
Ahh, OK, I was getting a bit confused, and wasn't looking for the right features when I posted about the rear speakers.
Good news is that I have found a UK supplier for the Earthquake compact subs you suggested in post #14. Hurrah !
I agree, I could go with the bazooka, or maybe an underseat sub, but I really fancy using the rear speaker positions for a pair of smaller subs.
I feel it would be a lot neater, which is the reason I'm hanging on to the idea.
So, it seems I can source the speakers, just need to decide on the amp now.
At this point I am leaning towards the JBL I posted in post #17, as it gets some decent reviews, and seems to be capable.

Thanks again for you help and advice, it is appreciated very much.

Right, now I'm off to learn about soundproofing, and how to wire all the bits together !!

When I get all the bits, who knows, I might even start a build thread !!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,001 Posts
Nice thing about the Bazooka is it has it's Amp built in, so very few wires or amps sticking out. Using your rear panels might not be stiff enough for subs in the rear, but I could be wrong.

Either way, keep us informed....
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top