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Arbitration and Buyback

21K views 55 replies 25 participants last post by  soaringbear 
#1 ·
Long story short (I know some of you have been following), Honda has deemed my new 2017 CRV irreparable. The dealer has instructed me to go through the buyback process at American Honda. Has anyone successfully gone through this?
 
#3 ·
Well, start by getting a piece of paper on it from the dealer that says they cannot repair the defect. Until you get that, it's just the dealership trying to avoid diagnostic work they won't get paid for. If they won't produce that piece of paper, complain to Honda corporate that your dealer is refusing to fix your car.

You might also want to let corporate know the dealer is telling you to have Honda buy back the thing. I suspect they might be very surprised and upset to hear this. I have a funny feeling Honda Corporate did not, in fact, tell the dealer to tell you to have Honda buy the car back.

Research the Lemon Law in your state and ensure you've met the requirements. (They very wildly.)

I'd then tell the dealer you'd like to speak to the Zone service representative, because they are the ones that would probably be responsible for signing off on any payment outside an actual Lemon Law suit.

You might want to consult with a lawyer before starting the non-binding arbitration process. No idea how useful the process is, but you certainly don't want to screw up any potential future lemon law suit.
 
#8 ·
Honda doesn’t know. They’ve confirmed it’s an issue with the fuel system, whether it be the low pressure fuel pump or the gas tank itself. They won’t tell me EXACTLY what the problem is and yet they refuse to work on the car. American Honda says there is a “known issue” and they are working on a fix, but in the meantime I am considered about the safety issue regarding something being wrong with the fuel system and they won’t tell me.

They claim it doesn’t affect the drivability of the vehicle but none of the techs have actually driven the car.
 
#12 ·
I had an issue with Toyota and they couldn't repair my steering issue on a new 1 week car. I fix the steering issue was buying the same car at the dealer and selling my 1 week old car.. and took a $1500 loss.. but I went to the media and Toyota Corp sent me the $1500 difference..
FYI: GMA morning show picked up the steering issue and it went national! Others had the same steering issue, too.
 
#13 ·
I am actually going through the process with Nissan right now... Look at the Warranty/Extended warranty booklet that came with your vehicle. It varies by stated, but I had to bring the vehicle in 5 times (required by law) to allow the dealer to fix the problem before I could request a repurchase/replacement. Also, I was required to go before an Arbitrator at the BBB, who sided with me.

Without documentation from a dealer, you won't be able to do much with your states Lemon Law. If you have to, bring it to 5 (or whatever is required in your state) different dealers so you have the documentation. It's not a fun process. Also, if legal in your state, record the conversation you had with Honda.

Mog
 
#14 ·
Did the message about it being irreparable come directly from Honda, or is that what the dealer told you? And has anyone at Honda contacted you directly?

I'd start with asking for details about what they are offering you and go from there.

If you don't like the offer then you can start looking at other options, including getting a lawyer involved.
But do not tell Honda you are going to sue them, as that will immediately put them in 'defend the castle' mode, and they may stop talking to you at all.

If you do decide to go the lawyer route, shop around for a lawyer, and ask about a 'demand letter'. Rather than involving the courts, the lawyer sends a formal letter to Honda demanding that they fix the problem, replace the car, buy it back from you, or whatever resolution you would like Honda to do.

But talk to Honda first, and I don't mean your Honda dealer.

Good luck!
 
#15 ·
Long story short (I know some of you have been following), Honda has deemed my new 2017 CRV irreparable. The dealer has instructed me to go through the buyback process at American Honda. Has anyone successfully gone through this?
Did the message about it being irreparable come directly from Honda, or is that what the dealer told you? And has anyone at Honda contacted you directly?

I'd start with asking for details about what they are offering you and go from there.

If you don't like the offer then you can start looking at other options, including getting a lawyer involved.
But do not tell Honda you are going to sue them, as that will immediately put them in 'defend the castle' mode, and they may stop talking to you at all.

If you do decide to go the lawyer route, shop around for a lawyer, and ask about a 'demand letter'. Rather than involving the courts, the lawyer sends a formal letter to Honda demanding that they fix the problem, replace the car, buy it back from you, or whatever resolution you would like Honda to do.

But talk to Honda first, and I don't mean your Honda dealer.

Good luck!
I have a Honda case manager at American Honda who told me on the phone that the car is “currently irreparable” based on what they’re hearing from the tech line and dealerships, “however, they might come out with a repair in the future.”
 
#16 ·
I have a Honda case manager at American Honda who told me on the phone that the car is “currently irreparable” based on what they’re hearing from the tech line and dealerships, “however, they might come out with a repair in the future.”
And did they say what they are going to do for you right now? Not some time in the unknowable future??
 
#19 ·
This sound:

https://youtu.be/xTPN68HXqd8

This can be heard from the rear of the vehicle, both inside and outside. It gets worse with a full tank of gas. Honda has indicated it’s a known problem with the fuel system and has been reported many times but does not have a solution.

I have taken the car in for a repair and the techs removed the gas tank and repositioned it in a different spot slightly and then strapped it back down. Noise went away temporarily and as of last week the vehicle made a loud one time “thunk” from the rear and now the noise is louder than ever.

The cell phone video doesn’t do it justice - the noise can be heard by a listener on the other end of a call on speakerphone.. it’s pretty damn loud.

One of the Honda techs once asked me if the car was in a wreck because it sounded so wrong.
 
#21 ·
It’s been a week since we initially contacted Honda Corporate to start this process. Currently our case manager refuses to answer our calls and will not return our calls. She will not assign us to another case manager or send us to a supervisor.. so we aren’t really getting anywhere with them.
 
#28 ·
I had a similar problem with a new F-150 I bought. I had a limited slip differential chattering issue and the dealer attempted the repair twice. They resolved the issue the second time but a short while later, it developed a whine in the rear end. I took it back and they test drove it in a rainstorm. They said they didn't hear anything and I would have to just wait until it got worse. They told me it would do no good to call Ford because they would say the same thing. Having had 30+ years of handling complaints in insurance claims, I did it a little differently.

I wrote a certified letter to Ford outlining my problem and requesting that it be repaired. I got a phone call from Ford in a week and they told me they would check into it and call me back within a week. I heard nothing so I wrote another letter and expressed my disappointment and attached a copy of the first letter. In a week, I got another call and they said they were sorry and would check and get back to me in a week. I again heard nothing and wrote a third letter with a copy of the first two attached. I waited another week and got a call from a manager from Ford begging for an opportunity to resolve the issue. He asked me what other dealer I wanted to take the truck and told me I could leave it there and they would provide a rental. The second dealer drove the truck, heard the noise and order parts for the repair. When they got in the differential, they found that the first dealer had not tightened the carrier bearings and they had to replace everything, including the housing. They repaired it and I have had no other problems. I was surprised that Ford didn't supply complete differential assemblies but they had to order the individual parts and assemble them.

A written letter of complaint is much effective than e-mail or phone call because you have a paper trail that they can't ignore.
 
#31 ·
It seems we’ve reached the end with Honda Corporate.

Case manager called us back and said the car has a problem but there is no fix at this time. She said the district manager spoke to me and explained this (this is a flat out lie, I don’t even know who he is. Ive been asking for his info for a week). She then said the service manager, regional Honda rep, and the Honda tech line all came to agreement that the problem causing the noise is not a safety issue. I asked WHAT the problem is since three men (who have never looked at the car in person) are willing to say it’s safe. She said they do not actually know what’s causing the noise. So I said “if you don’t know what the problem is, how can you with 100% certainty tell me the car is safe without looking at it?”

She then said the fuel injectors are fine. I said “well that’s great, but those are in the front of the car. The noise is coming from the gas tank at the rear. Also, the last time the vehicle was inspected was on 1/8 and the problem has since gotten worse.”

She said there was nothing she could do so we asked to speak to a supervisor. She said it was the end of her business day (3 pm PST) and said no supervisors are around. She said in order to escalate she has to put in a written request to a supervisor and that could take 2-3 business days. We told her we would not get off the phone until we spoke to someone else. She then hung up.

We called back and requested a different case manager and for a supervisor escalation. The new rep we spoke to said she would have us called by a supervisor tomorrow and that the 2-3 business days was false.

I’m at a loss here.
 
#37 ·
The issue I’m having a hard time wrapping my brain around is the fact that Honda and the dealership said the following:

1. There is a problem with the vehicle.
2. The problem is a “known issue” and there may be a recall in the future.
3. They do not actually KNOW what the problem is.
4. They have deemed my vehicle safe to operate simply because the check engine light is not on and the vehicle is not throwing codes.
5. The people deeming my vehicle safe to operate are going based on the repair from 1/9/18 which has since gotten worse. The vehicle has not been reinspected since.

I cannot trust that the vehicle is safe to drive when Honda Engineering doesn’t even know what the problem IS.

Does that make sense?
 
#38 ·
Use the lemon law!!!

Take the vehicle back to the dealer asking for the problem to be repaired. Let them refuse to repair it.

Take it back and do it again. Let them refuse to repair it.

Under lemon laws you must give the dealer a certain number of opportunities to repair the problem. Even if they refuse to work on the car they did have the opportunity.

I would also be clear with the dealer that you are going to use the lemon law. They will probably tell you that it does not apply but their opinion does not count. Go though the steps you have to follow in order to to enforce the lemon law.
 
#47 ·
Here's a NHTSA complaint for back of car noise...


PURCHASED 2017 HONDA CRV EXL WITH AWD IN OCTOBER 2017. IMMEDIATELY AFTER PURCHASE, THERE WAS A LOUD KNOCKING NOISE COMING FROM THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE. VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO LIA HONDA IN WILLIAMSVILLE, NY WHERE I WAS TOLD "THAT'S JUST THE SOUND OF THE FUEL PUMP, TURN YOUR RADIO UP." THE SOUND PROGRESSIVELY GOT LOUDER SO THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN BACK TO LIA HONDA IN DECEMBER 2017. TECH THAT HEARD THE NOISE SAID "IT SOUNDED LIKE THE VEHICLE WAS IN A CRASH, THE SOUND WAS THAT BAD." VEHICLE SCHEDULED FOR REPAIR IN JAN 2018. REPAIR WAS MADE TO VEHICLE IN JAN 2018 WHICH INCLUDED ADDED INSULATION AROUND GAS TANK AND TIGHTENING OF THE GAS TANK STRAPS. NOISE WENT AWAY FOR APPROXIMATELY 1-2 WEEKS. NOISE IS NOW BACK LOUDER THAN EVER AS OF FEB 2018. CAR WAS TAKEN BACK TO LIA HONDA AGAIN AND WE WERE TOLD "HONDA TOLD THEM NOT TO TOUCH THE CAR" AND THAT THEY "WOULD NOT MAKE ANY REPAIRS TO THE VEHICLE." I AM CONCERNED THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE SAFETY SYSTEM AND IT IS NOT BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY HONDA OR MY DEALERSHIP. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE DRIVING THE CAR KNOWING THE GAS TANK OR FUEL PUMP IS KNOCKING ABNORMALLY. THE KNOCKING NOISE HAPPENS ALL THE TIME BUT IS LOUDER WHEN THERE IS A FULL TANK OF GAS. THE KNOCKING CAN BE HEARD BEST FROM THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE NEAR THE GAS TANK.
 
#48 ·
Here's a NHTSA complaint for back of car noise...


PURCHASED 2017 HONDA CRV EXL WITH AWD IN OCTOBER 2017. IMMEDIATELY AFTER PURCHASE, THERE WAS A LOUD KNOCKING NOISE COMING FROM THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE. VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO LIA HONDA IN WILLIAMSVILLE, NY WHERE I WAS TOLD "THAT'S JUST THE SOUND OF THE FUEL PUMP, TURN YOUR RADIO UP." THE SOUND PROGRESSIVELY GOT LOUDER SO THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN BACK TO LIA HONDA IN DECEMBER 2017. TECH THAT HEARD THE NOISE SAID "IT SOUNDED LIKE THE VEHICLE WAS IN A CRASH, THE SOUND WAS THAT BAD." VEHICLE SCHEDULED FOR REPAIR IN JAN 2018. REPAIR WAS MADE TO VEHICLE IN JAN 2018 WHICH INCLUDED ADDED INSULATION AROUND GAS TANK AND TIGHTENING OF THE GAS TANK STRAPS. NOISE WENT AWAY FOR APPROXIMATELY 1-2 WEEKS. NOISE IS NOW BACK LOUDER THAN EVER AS OF FEB 2018. CAR WAS TAKEN BACK TO LIA HONDA AGAIN AND WE WERE TOLD "HONDA TOLD THEM NOT TO TOUCH THE CAR" AND THAT THEY "WOULD NOT MAKE ANY REPAIRS TO THE VEHICLE." I AM CONCERNED THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE SAFETY SYSTEM AND IT IS NOT BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY HONDA OR MY DEALERSHIP. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE DRIVING THE CAR KNOWING THE GAS TANK OR FUEL PUMP IS KNOCKING ABNORMALLY. THE KNOCKING NOISE HAPPENS ALL THE TIME BUT IS LOUDER WHEN THERE IS A FULL TANK OF GAS. THE KNOCKING CAN BE HEARD BEST FROM THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE NEAR THE GAS TANK.
That’s actually my complaint.. I already submitted one haha :)
 
#49 ·
Document everything, preferably on video. Then contact a consumer reporter at a TV station in your area - almost every town has a few, usually with alliterative names: "Ask Asa", "Better Get Baquero", "Fred Fixes It", etc. They LOVE stories of the little guy getting screwed by a big company. If you can present a compelling story, that will get you quicker results than lawyers.
 
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