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Discussion Starter #1
There has been talk in the past about the usefulness of remote starting the CRV (including other modern vehicles) in order to warm them up. The general consensus has been that it's a waste of money and only contributes to pollution and OD, and that the best thing to do is just 'get in and drive'. This might be true for most drivers, most of the time. However when living in an (actual) cold region, this is not always possible. In a very cold region heat in the vehicle is not just about comfort, but safety. Just getting in your vehicle, your breath freezes on the windshield, and anti-freeze fluid instantly freezes when sprayed making it impossible and of course dangerous to drive (can't see!) There is no choice but to wait for some heat to at the very least begin to warm the windshield. Parking in a garage helps, but this is not always possible.

I've an OBDII unit (BlueDriver) connected to my CRV and now that it's getting colder, am able to collect some data on cold start-up conditions. Unfortunately the unit only turns on and connects to my phone (Bluetooth) when it's ignition is on, so there can be a 10 second or so delay before acquiring data. That is why ECT1 - engine coolant temp, is not at the same temp as ECT2 - rad coolant temp after sitting around for over 20h.

As you can see from the graph, the temperature rapidly climbs from -8C(17.6F) to 30C (86F) in under 5 minutes. It would likely go to 40C (104F) within less that 10 minutes. That's almost a whopping 50C (122F) change in less than 10 minutes which makes all the difference in the world to SAFELY drive away. When remote starting the CRV, heat output to the windshield instantly goes on full blast just for this reason (thank you Honda).

Anyways, hope some of you find this information interesting :). Next week I'll post some data collected on my drive to work. You can clearly see the engine temp drop as others have seen when stopping/slowing down. But only after the engine temp hits 50C (122F), because this is when the cabin fans turn on to begin to heating the interior. Unfortunately the CRV can't keep heating up the cabin AND the engine at the same time. Once the cabin temp warms up, the engine easily stays at operating temp all the time.

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Very interesting.

I would encourage you to drop this into the OD thread as well... which is where we are actually allowed to explore OD and discuss it.. and cold engines are part and parcel to that.

So.. being a 2019.. this would be a CRV produced with the Honda TSB to address warming applied at the factory before delivery.

What is particularly interesting here is STFT starting out at ~0 on cold start then moves slowing negative as the engine reaches full temperature (adjusting fuel richness downward to compensate for fuel richness). This runs counter to some earlier theories and data suggesting OD is a fuel trim issue as much as a temperature issue. Clearly, for your release level of CRV... the engine appears to run leaner at cold start.. but this could be an artifact of whatever your LTFT is, and thus inconclusive at this point. I believe at cold start the control unit uses LTFT as the initial fuel trim driver, so that could be masking things a bit.

It would be interesting to see the LTFT as well because they work hand in hand... though LTFT is more indicative of fuel trim run rate in general.
 

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Awesome post, OP. I notice the fan cranked on full blast whenever I remote start my CRV. While that is helpful once the engine warms up a little bit, it however would prolong the warming up of the engine. It would be better if Honda applies some smart technology to incrementally crank up the fan once the engine reaches certain temperature.
 

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We have a law regulating this. Idling for more than 2 minutes is forbidden in yards (including residential areas) and/or within 10 meters from a residential buildings.

Aux heaters are very common. Be it fuel based (creating some emission but significantly less than a running engine) or electric which need to be plugged in. Both have their advantages and disadvantages but both exceed idling by a lightyear - set aside the emission and fuel waste, preventing engine wear due to cold start is the biggest advantage. And the best thing ever: the cabin is warm and snow melted from the windows/panorama roof (if not too cold).

You can also have a trickle charger combined with the aux heater so once plugged in it also keeps the battery charged.

I had Defa in my Gen3:



The other big player in our region is Calix:

 
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Discussion Starter #5
What is particularly interesting here is STFT starting out at ~0 on cold start then moves slowing negative as the engine reaches full temperature (adjusting fuel richness downward to compensate for fuel richness). This runs counter to some earlier theories and data suggesting OD is a fuel trim issue as much as a temperature issue. Clearly, for your release level of CRV... the engine appears to run leaner at cold start.. but this could be an artifact of whatever your LTFT is, and thus inconclusive at this point. I believe at cold start the control unit uses LTFT as the initial fuel trim driver, so that could be masking things a bit.
I'll see about adding in LTFT for the next trial.

Awesome post, OP. I notice the fan cranked on full blast whenever I remote start my CRV. While that is helpful once the engine warms up a little bit, it however would prolong the warming up of the engine. It would be better if Honda applies some smart technology to incrementally crank up the fan once the engine reaches certain temperature.
I guess decision was made that front windshield defrosting is top priority when starting up, and so most heat produced by engine is directed to it. This works for me, as otherwise it would take that much longer for me to get going! This feature turns off when restarting the vehicle once inside, and fans do in fact not turn on until engine temps have reached at least 50C (122F), but would agree that I'd also like the fan speed to increase more slowly (after reaching 122F) to let the engine warm up quicker.

Aux heaters are very common. Be it fuel based (creating some emission but significantly less than a running engine) or electric which need to be plugged in. Both have their advantages and disadvantages but both exceed idling by a lightyear - set aside the emission and fuel waste, preventing engine wear due to cold start is the biggest advantage. And the best thing ever: the cabin is warm and snow melted from the windows/panorama roof (if not too cold).
I do have a block heater installed, which provides 1250W of heat directly to the engine coolant. It's great to use it when the temps are below freezing, as the warm air is coming into the cabin just a couple of hundred metres down the road when leaving my driveway! Warm air is also immediately available to the front windshield when remote starting. Very glad I had it installed, however sometimes I forget to plug it in when I get home :( However the main issue is that I have nowhere to plug it when I get to work. So it can only be effectively used 50% of the time. Surprisingly, fuel based aux heaters for vehicles are almost unheard of in Canada.
 

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I do have a block heater installed, which provides 1250W of heat directly to the engine coolant. It's great to use it when the temps are below freezing, as the warm air is coming into the cabin just a couple of hundred metres down the road when leaving my driveway! Warm air is also immediately available to the front windshield when remote starting. Very glad I had it installed, however sometimes I forget to plug it in when I get home :( However the main issue is that I have nowhere to plug it when I get to work. So it can only be effectively used 50% of the time. Surprisingly, fuel based aux heaters for vehicles are almost unheard of in Canada.
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Now to see the drive soon version. Should be able to reach 100F in half the time of idling.

If safety is no issue, drive as soon as cat warm up is over.
 

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Far better than remote starting your car is to get a block heater added to warm up the coolant.

Amazing how nice it is to have instant heat the moment you start your car.
 

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...............I do have a block heater installed, which provides 1250W of heat directly to the engine coolant.........
Is the dash coolant temp gauge needle visible at cold start-up, after a night of engine not running and the block heater has been plugged in? If the needle is visible, where about is it on the gauge? Thanks.
 

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Surprisingly, fuel based aux heaters for vehicles are almost unheard of in Canada.
Hmm, these seem to be standard on many diesel cars/vans over here. Two vans I have bought have had them. I don't like them as they require expensive servicing every few years or it'll be smoky as hell.

Is the dash coolant temp gauge needle visible at cold start-up, after a night of engine not running and the block heater has been plugged in? If the needle is visible, where about is it on the gauge? Thanks.
On my CR-V it was somewhere in the bottom 1/5 but it was blowing lukewarm air right away and adequately warm in a minute. The block heater should be turned on (by a timer or manually) not more than 2h before the trip if it's very cold or half an hour if it's moderately cold. It doesn't have any effect other than wasting money running block heater for more than 2 hours.
 

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I live in a cold weather area (Toronto, Canada) and have been avoiding the use of remote starting my CR-V in order to avoid oil dilution. Does anyone in a cold weather area use the remote start feature with success (i.e. the car warms up in a reasonable amount of time AND you have not experienced any oil dilution)?
 

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...............On my CR-V it was somewhere in the bottom 1/5 but it was blowing lukewarm air right away and adequately warm in a minute. The block heater should be turned on (by a timer or manually) not more than 2h before the trip if it's very cold or half an hour if it's moderately cold. It doesn't have any effect other than wasting money running block heater for more than 2 hours.
I'm not in a "cold" climate but I do observe that when the temp gauge needle first appears (+/-130F) the thermometer I have in the drivers dash vent displays +/-80F and continues to rise as the coolant temp rises. I'm thinking "bottom 1/5" on the dash gauge would be about 140F. When the dash gauge stops moving (at 1/2), actual coolant temp is +/-160F. Actual coolant temp continues to rise to +/-180F even though the needle stops moving at 1/2.?‍♂
 

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That's an interesting graph (and being an engineer I'm always interested in tends). I collected some data a while back on my 18 and the STFT started at around -6% then moved up towards 0%, essentially the opposite of yours. I wish there was a data PID available for the BlueDriver to see injector timing/events to see what, if any correlation there is between fuel trims, rail pressure and when and how many injection events take place.
 

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That's an interesting graph (and being an engineer I'm always interested in tends). I collected some data a while back on my 18 and the STFT started at around -6% then moved up towards 0%, essentially the opposite of yours. I wish there was a data PID available for the BlueDriver to see injector timing/events to see what, if any correlation there is between fuel trims, rail pressure and when and how many injection events take place.
The original poster is driving a 2019... which left the factory with all the latest Honda adjustments for early reported heating issues. Has your '18 been updated with the TSB? If not, that could be part of it.

Also.... could be the difference in what you are seeing and the original poster is seeing.. is difference in fuel blend.

I don't know that for sure, because you have to look at both LTFT and STFT together... but the 1.5T is reported by some to run better fuel trims overall with an E10 fuel blend.

I feel we will never get to the bottom of fuel blends in this context though.. because there are literally more then a hundred different blends in use in the US.... and that is without considering winter vs summer blends. Some states.. you can see different blends in urban cities and their associated county vs the rest of the state.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Is the dash coolant temp gauge needle visible at cold start-up, after a night of engine not running and the block heater has been plugged in? If the needle is visible, where about is it on the gauge? Thanks.
The dash engine coolant temp on the dash begins to show at 65C(149F), and reaches the top at 75C(167F).

Plugging in the block heater from what I've seen raises the engine coolant temp about 30C(86F) above ambient. So it seems the outdoor ambient temp would need to be about 35C(95F) if you wanted to see the dash coolant temp gauge needle visible immediately at start-up.
 

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I live an hour north of Toronto and have never preheated a vehicle at my location, sure would not want to leave it running in a garage :). I am, however fortunate to be able to keep my vehicles in an (unheated) garage hence no condensation or ice/snow to be concerned over. The odd time I am in a motel up north in mid winter I do preheat just while scraping/wiping off the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
That's an interesting graph (and being an engineer I'm always interested in tends). I collected some data a while back on my 18 and the STFT started at around -6% then moved up towards 0%, essentially the opposite of yours. I wish there was a data PID available for the BlueDriver to see injector timing/events to see what, if any correlation there is between fuel trims, rail pressure and when and how many injection events take place.
Totally agree regarding injector timing/events (and other data) for analysis. This is not available with BlueDriver output, but according to them we see all that Honda allows us to see and it is not a BlueDriver limitation.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I live in a cold weather area (Toronto, Canada) and have been avoiding the use of remote starting my CR-V in order to avoid oil dilution. Does anyone in a cold weather area use the remote start feature with success (i.e. the car warms up in a reasonable amount of time AND you have not experienced any oil dilution)?
That is exactly my experience.

IMO, one of the points of the graph is that remote starting the CRV may actually help with OD - especially if going on short trips during cold weather. However the greatest benefit may be at 5min, with 10 being the max. After that it may have negative impact from what I've read from others who idle for long periods of time.
 

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The dash engine coolant temp on the dash begins to show at 65C(149F), and reaches the top at 75C(167F).

Plugging in the block heater from what I've seen raises the engine coolant temp about 30C(86F) above ambient. So it seems the outdoor ambient temp would need to be about 35C(95F) if you wanted to see the dash coolant temp gauge needle visible immediately at start-up.
I'm confused......if your ambient temp was say 30F at cold start-up and the block heater was plugged in, the needle would or would not be displaying at cold start-up?
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I'm confused......if your ambient temp was say 30F at cold start-up and the block heater was plugged in, the needle would or would not be displaying at cold start-up?
No it wouldn't.

If the outside ambient temp was 30F and the block heater was plugged-in, then the coolant temp would be at about 85F. The needle would not be displaying at start-up because in order for that to happen the coolant temperature needs to be at or above about 150F.

EDIT: The coolant temperature may actually need to be at or above 130F before it begins registering as red on the dash. Sorry, let me check tomorrow and get back to you. Regardless, 85F is still way below 130F so still wouldn't show.
 
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