Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner

41 - 60 of 60 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
Curious as to what you think the dealer is lying about?

Any new car comes with a full warranty. Which means everything is new, and everything is covered. This is, by the way, also required by federal law, and backed up by lemon laws for dealing with fraudulent, criminal dealers. Also covered by the consumer protection act. So, if the dealer says it isn't, then there ya go. It's only common sense, anyway. There can only be two reasons for a cracked windshield on a brand new vehicle. Unreported damage, or a defect. If there is no outwardly apparent cause, the dealer must comply. The burden of proof is on him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
Any new car comes with a full warranty. Which means everything is new, and everything is covered. This is, by the way, also required by federal law, and backed up by lemon laws for dealing with fraudulent, criminal dealers. Also covered by the consumer protection act. So, if the dealer says it isn't, then there ya go. It's only common sense, anyway. There can only be two reasons for a cracked windshield on a brand new vehicle. Unreported damage, or a defect. If there is no outwardly apparent cause, the dealer must comply. The burden of proof is on him.
Its not a new vehicle..

Its two months old..
Who knows what has hit that windshield in two months?

Sent from my LG-H700 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Its not a new vehicle..

Its two months old..
Who knows what has hit that windshield in two months?

Sent from my LG-H700 using Tapatalk
100% accurate comment...and likely the dealer's position as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
As I said in another thread, you are not alone. I have a 2018 CRV and my windshield cracked in the exact same place while it was sitting in my driveway for no reason. I am going to the dealer this morning to see what my options are. A quick search online reveals many similar stories and a class action lawsuit over this issue in the US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
As I said in another thread, you are not alone. I have a 2018 CRV and my windshield cracked in the exact same place while it was sitting in my driveway for no reason. I am going to the dealer this morning to see what my options are. A quick search online reveals many similar stories and a class action lawsuit over this issue in the US.

Oh.. there goes the ever popular "class action law suit" card being played again along with the "many similar stories"meme. I guess this schtick never gets old. Good luck with that one, particularly where windshields are concerned.

Setting aside road hazards hitting the windshield, or foolish things like running hot water across a frozen windshield ... there is another very common point of owner induced failure for these modern windshields ---> allowing the wiper arm to fall down on the windshield when changing the wiper blades. They are spring loaded, and in my observation are somewhat prone to tripping the spring and having the wiper arm slam down on the windshield. ANY such mechanical force contact with the windshield will damage the glass... and it will progress from micro damage or small starburst to a full blown 5+inch crack in the windshield within weeks.

Simply put....if you allow the wiper arm to strike the windshield, it will create a stress fracture at the point of impact.. and the owner may not even notice it immediately because it is probably a small starburst fracture hidden by the black coating on the inside of the windshield. Left unfixed... these will progress to long multi-inch cracks along the bottom edge or surface of the windshield. I have a friend with a CRV that had exactly this happen to them, and now makes sure to always put a folded thick towel under the wiper blade before lifting it and changing wiper blades.

Note: the best practice is to always place a sheet of 1 inch thick impact foam down on the surface of the windshield, or a 1 inch thick folded towel where the end of the wiper arm would rest on the windshield BEFORE attempting to change wiper blades.

The ONLY valid claim with a dealer is if you can establish that the actual factory install of the windshield was defective. Example: The factory failed to properly apply the sealing adhesive per Honda specification. This could cause a stress failure if there are any gaps in the adhesive as the adhesive is a primary structural support for the glass. Any other damage to a windshield is going to come down to an owner or road hazard induced defect.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
Its not a new vehicle..

Its two months old..
Who knows what has hit that windshield in two months?

Sent from my LG-H700 using Tapatalk
Horse puckey. It absolutely is a new vehicle, and is, by law, covered by the full warranty. This includes not only the windshield, but also tires and batteries (for a limited period). Even if it wasn't, I would require the dealer to cover it. They can easily get these covered as defects. That defect thing is a good reason for a class action - to force a manufacturer to use a better part. It's how recalls come about.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
Oh.. there goes the ever popular "class action law suit" card being played again along with the "many similar stories" meme. I guess this schtick never gets old. Good luck with that one, particularly where windshields are concerned.

The ONLY valid claim with a dealer is if you can establish that the actual factory install of the windshield was defective. Example: The factory failed to properly apply the sealing adhesive per Honda specification. This could cause a stress failure if there are any gaps in the adhesive as the adhesive is a primary structural support for the glass. Any other damage to a windshield is going to come down to an owner or road hazard induced defect.
Enough reports of bad windshields is proof all by itself that they are defective, just as with any other part. Again, this is the very reason recalls happen. Also, again carmakers can get these covered by parts makers as defects. But it shouldn't be needed, as you insurance should cover it. If they don't , that's on you.

Many states now have laws on the books to enhance enforcement of all this, by closing loopholes and denying exclusion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
Enough reports of bad windshields is proof all by itself that they are defective, just as with any other part. Again, this is the very reason recalls happen. Also, again carmakers can get these covered by parts makers as defects. But it shouldn't be needed, as you insurance should cover it. If they don't , that's on you.

Many states now have laws on the books to enhance enforcement of all this, by closing loopholes and denying exclusion.

There are NOT a lot of reports of actual bad windshields... no matter what you claim.

Defective windshield glass is very uncommon now days.. because they are all produced on automated manufacturing lines, which includes defect detection by computer imaging, which essentially eliminates human error. A bad batch of glass is very unlikely as well.. because the factories test each batch of glass before they allow a production run. There are not many vehicle assembly related defects either, because again... computer and robotic assisted assembly... which largely removes human error in assembly.

And let's be real here... the world is down to about half a dozen vehicle glass producers now days... so you can't even claim some shoddy off brand vendor either.... not even for aftermarket glass used by the SafeLites of the world (almost all aftermarket glass comes from the same set of producers, and from the same actual factory lines as the OEM glass, with the only difference being absence of vehicle brand logo on the non OEM glass).

There ARE a good number of reports of cracked windshields, and most often the cause is clearly a road hazard, or dropping a wiper arm on the glass when changing wiper blades (owner negligence).

People can argue to the end of time if road hazard cracks and chips are due to poor design of the windshield, but there is little evidence to support the conspiracy theory.. so said arguments go nowhere, regardless which side of the argument any individual may be taking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
Horse puckey. It absolutely is a new vehicle, and is, by law, covered by the full warranty. This includes not only the windshield, but also tires and batteries (for a limited period). Even if it wasn't, I would require the dealer to cover it. They can easily get these covered as defects. That defect thing is a good reason for a class action - to force a manufacturer to use a better part. It's how recalls come about.
There is absolutely no proof presented here that there is an actual defective windshield at fault. Only an allegation by an owner, absent any presented evidence.

By the way... NOTHING on a brand new car is covered by the bumper to bumper warranty if it is damaged due to customer negligence or a road hazard, or any other external fault causing some component to fail or suffer damage. The warranty expresssly covers defects due to manufacturing or workmanship by the manufacturer. Period... full stop.

I get so tired of this constant and tedious uninformed claim by some that everything that goes wrong with a vehicle driven normally HAS to be the manufacturers fault.

And if you, or anyone else, think that a dealer cannot easily tell an actual covered warranty defect from actual damage due to negligence or road hazard... then there is literally no point in further discussing anything with you. Even then.. good dealers, on a tough call where there can be valid debate....will often provide good will in the form of doing a repair at no charge.. but owners certainly are not entitled to nor can expect any dealer to do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
629 Posts
There is absolutely no proof presented here that there is an actual defective windshield at fault. Only an allegation by an owner, absent any presented evidence.

By the way... NOTHING on a brand new car is covered by the bumper to bumper warranty if it is damaged due to customer negligence or a road hazard, or any other external fault causing some component to fail or suffer damage. The warranty expresssly covers defects due to manufacturing or workmanship by the manufacturer. Period... full stop.

I get so tired of this constant and tedious uninformed claim by some that everything that goes wrong with a vehicle driven normally HAS to be the manufacturers fault.

And if you, or anyone else, think that a dealer cannot easily tell an actual covered warranty defect from actual damage due to negligence or road hazard... then there is literally no point in further discussing anything with you. Even then.. good dealers, on a tough call where there can be valid debate....will often provide good will in the form of doing a repair at no charge.. but owners certainly are not entitled to nor can expect any dealer to do so.
I’m just a regular Joe here, bought a CRV, like to read post on the car.
You,.. are obviously from a different angle. I like positive and negative posts. Makes the world go round.
I have no idea why you feel the need to post page long posts, as if you are the internet spokesperson for Honda. Who knows, maybe you are. Hope you’re well compensated for your endless long posts and battles against all who are unhappy with their car.
In this case, there is so much more to a potential ill designed windshield and support structure, that you might want to relax a bit and let customers vent, before you jump over every poster.
There might be more to the truth than the quick snippy responses you like to sling out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
I’m just a regular Joe here, bought a CRV, like to read post on the car.
You,.. are obviously from a different angle. I like positive and negative posts. Makes the world go round.
I have no idea why you feel the need to post page long posts, as if you are the internet spokesperson for Honda. Who knows, maybe you are. Hope you’re well compensated for your endless long posts and battles against all who are unhappy with their car.
In this case, there is so much more to a potential ill designed windshield and support structure, that you might want to relax a bit and let customers vent, before you jump over every poster.
There might be more to the truth than the quick snippy responses you like to sling out.
Setting aside the fact that your comment is completely off topic and a personal attack.... a response from me is needed.

In this case, Kloker (as he is prone to do) presented factually incorrect statements about the factory warranty. Basic opinion presented as fact, which is misleading to other readers

As a "regular joe" I would expect you would prefer facts over fiction in a vehicle forum discussion. Maybe not, maybe you prefer the forum be slathered with inaccurate information. /shrug

But you know what, if my posted comments are not useful to you.. be a grown up and make use of the ignore feature native to the forum, instead of this call-out attack you just performed. I assure you, I will not be offended.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
629 Posts
Setting aside the fact that your comment is completely off topic and a personal attack.... a response from me is needed.

In this case, Kloker (as he is prone to do) presented factually incorrect statements about the factory warranty. Basic opinion presented as fact, which is misleading to other readers

As a "regular joe" I would expect you would prefer facts over fiction in a vehicle forum discussion. Maybe not, maybe you prefer the forum be slathered with inaccurate information. /shrug

But you know what, if my posted comments are not useful to you.. be a grown up and make use of the ignore feature native to the forum, instead of this call-out attack you just performed. I assure you, I will not be offended.
??
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
There are NOT a lot of reports of actual bad windshields... no matter what you claim.

Defective windshield glass is very uncommon now days.. because they are all produced on automated manufacturing lines, which includes defect detection by computer imaging, which essentially eliminates human error. A bad batch of glass is very unlikely as well.. because the factories test each batch of glass before they allow a production run. There are not many vehicle assembly related defects either, because again... computer and robotic assisted assembly... which largely removes human error in assembly.

And let's be real here... the world is down to about half a dozen vehicle glass producers now days... so you can't even claim some shoddy off brand vendor either.... not even for aftermarket glass used by the SafeLites of the world (almost all aftermarket glass comes from the same set of producers, and from the same actual factory lines as the OEM glass, with the only difference being absence of vehicle brand logo on the non OEM glass).

There ARE a good number of reports of cracked windshields, and most often the cause is clearly a road hazard, or dropping a wiper arm on the glass when changing wiper blades (owner negligence).

People can argue to the end of time if road hazard cracks and chips are due to poor design of the windshield, but there is little evidence to support the conspiracy theory.. so said arguments go nowhere, regardless which side of the argument any individual may be taking.
I made no claim of any kind. Actually, however, there are a lot of such reports on Gen 5 CR-V's right here. A substantial number, here and elsewhere. Also a lot on Elements, Civics, and Accords. Also several class actions going on at any given time. Another point is that glass manufacturers are not responsible for carmaker design flaws, they can only make what is ordered to fit. Plus, there's the ever present fact that they just don't make 'em like they used to. Windshields may be made more precisely, but they are also made thinner wherever possible in order to save not only weight but costs, sometimes going a little too far. Apparently, to some folks, anything they don't agree with is a conspiracy theory. The truth is, there is a conspiracy - to make things as cheaply as can be gotten by with. That's nothing new or surprising, to most of us. That applies to design, construction, and materials. In many cases, it is found that in one or more of those categories, it is the cause of defects.

Also, it's not an unreasonable expectation to trust a brand new vehicle to have a windshield that will hold up well against road hazards, at least as well as they did in the past. But they don't seem to hold up as well these days, do they? That's the idea I get from what I read here and elsewhere. You can claim, if you like, that the reason for that is a more hostile road hazard world out there, but I don't buy it. Most of the vehicles I've owned over the years has never had a crack or a rock ding one. But the frequency of these things is far greater than it used to be. So what is the cause? Is it driver error? I don't think so.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
There is absolutely no proof presented here that there is an actual defective windshield at fault. Only an allegation by an owner, absent any presented evidence.

By the way... NOTHING on a brand new car is covered by the bumper to bumper warranty if it is damaged due to customer negligence or a road hazard, or any other external fault causing some component to fail or suffer damage. The warranty expresssly covers defects due to manufacturing or workmanship by the manufacturer. Period... full stop.

I get so tired of this constant and tedious uninformed claim by some that everything that goes wrong with a vehicle driven normally HAS to be the manufacturers fault.

And if you, or anyone else, think that a dealer cannot easily tell an actual covered warranty defect from actual damage due to negligence or road hazard... then there is literally no point in further discussing anything with you. Even then.. good dealers, on a tough call where there can be valid debate....will often provide good will in the form of doing a repair at no charge.. but owners certainly are not entitled to nor can expect any dealer to do so.
I fail to see your point. No one here is claiming otherwise. Dealers, and carmakers, however, regularly deny coverage of component failures due to defects. It's not just occasional, it's the norm. The oil dilution issue alone is enough proof of this. Transmission issues is another one Honda is long famous for, as are other carmakers. The list of such issues is endless. The windshield thing is just a drop in that bucket. It does not matter one whit that they can tell a defect from other damage. That doesn't even come into play, except as an excuse. It is true, some dealers will make good on some things, regardless, and deserve recognition and commendation for that. But as a whole, it's buyer beware. Owners often have only legal recourse available. And until enough pressure is applied, nothing will change much. This is a big reason many states are now passing new laws to force them to honor those warranties, and the Feds are watching with interest.

I'm so sorry you're tired. I hope you will consider taking better care of yourself by getting more rest. We want you healthy and fully participating.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
Setting aside the fact that your comment is completely off topic and a personal attack.... a response from me is needed.

In this case, Kloker (as he is prone to do) presented factually incorrect statements about the factory warranty. Basic opinion presented as fact, which is misleading to other readers

As a "regular joe" I would expect you would prefer facts over fiction in a vehicle forum discussion. Maybe not, maybe you prefer the forum be slathered with inaccurate information. /shrug

But you know what, if my posted comments are not useful to you.. be a grown up and make use of the ignore feature native to the forum, instead of this call-out attack you just performed. I assure you, I will not be offended.
Again, I made NO such statements. It's not about the warranty, it's about the fact that they don't honor it. And that is not an opinion, so your attempt at misdirection is not accepted. That said, I always value your comments and ideas, and welcome them. A lively discussion is the best result we can have. I believe a hundred percent in opposing views and the points made by all. IMO, anyone who chooses to put another member on ignore, or hide, or whatever, takes the coward's way out. It also proves that those folks choose to live in only the part of reality they agree with. It is trendy these days, but it is immature, not adult behavior.

Coldhonda's comment was not off topic, nor was it a personal attack. After all, it was you who gave him the ammunition. You don't have to choose to take it personal. We are all here because we drive CR-V's, and I love mine just as most of us do. I love it because it's a CR-V,and because it's a Honda. He was just joining in with some insight. Actually, you are more prone to personal attacks than he is, and I would know, wouldn't I? But I simply don't have to choose to take it that way, so I don't. But I don't surrender either, nor do I expect anyone to. Our goal here is not to agree on everything. It's to present our views and invite the same from others, the idea being that in the end it will be educational for all. It's the purpose of forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,911 Posts
Again, I made NO such statements. It's not about the warranty, it's about the fact that they don't honor it. And that is not an opinion, so your attempt at misdirection is not accepted.
Any component on a vehicle that is damaged by an external source (such as an impact to a windshield) IS NOT COVERED BY THE WARRANTY. There is no valid warranty claim to honor.

Read the damn warranty and stop spouting nonsense.

The amount of misinformation you peddle in this forum is astounding. I had you on ignore for this very reason long ago, but took you off ignore when you were elevated to a moderator, thinking you would be more factual and objective in your comments moving forward. The sad part is, apparently I cannot put you back on /ignore (I guess because you are a moderator)... so I will simply ignore every posted comment you make moving forward.


Bye, CYA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
472 Posts
Again, I made NO such statements. It's not about the warranty, it's about the fact that they don't honor it. And that is not an opinion, so your attempt at misdirection is not accepted. That said, I always value your comments and ideas, and welcome them. A lively discussion is the best result we can have. I believe a hundred percent in opposing views and the points made by all. IMO, anyone who chooses to put another member on ignore, or hide, or whatever, takes the coward's way out. It also proves that those folks choose to live in only the part of reality they agree with. It is trendy these days, but it is immature, not adult behavior.

Coldhonda's comment was not off topic, nor was it a personal attack. After all, it was you who gave him the ammunition. You don't have to choose to take it personal. We are all here because we drive CR-V's, and I love mine just as most of us do. I love it because it's a CR-V,and because it's a Honda. He was just joining in with some insight. Actually, you are more prone to personal attacks than he is, and I would know, wouldn't I? But I simply don't have to choose to take it that way, so I don't. But I don't surrender either, nor do I expect anyone to. Our goal here is not to agree on everything. It's to present our views and invite the same from others, the idea being that in the end it will be educational for all. It's the purpose of forums.
One comment after reading the last few posts. When a term such as " A lot" is used it is somewhat confusing at least to me. Out of the million or so 2017 thru 2020 Crvs how many do you mean by a lot have the issue? 5, 10, 5000, 500000. These terms cause a lot of confusion in my opinion and are not helpful in determining if it is a big issue, especially to someone reading only a few posts.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
Any component on a vehicle that is damaged by an external source (such as an impact to a windshield) IS NOT COVERED BY THE WARRANTY. There is no valid warranty claim to honor.

Read the damn warranty and stop spouting nonsense.

The amount of misinformation you peddle in this forum is astounding. I had you on ignore for this very reason long ago, but took you off ignore when you were elevated to a moderator, thinking you would be more factual and objective in your comments moving forward. The sad part is, apparently I cannot put you back on /ignore (I guess because you are a moderator)... so I will simply ignore every posted comment you make moving forward.


Bye, CYA.
I do NOT understand why you are yelling at me about this. I NEVER said or even implied any such thing. So what are you talking about? Please quote back to me where exactly I said this. I think you misread what I said. How does that make me a "peddler of misinformation?" You're pitching a fit over something I didn't say. I honestly don't see how I can fix that.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
One comment after reading the last few posts. When a term such as " A lot" is used it is somewhat confusing at least to me. Out of the million or so 2017 thru 2020 Crvs how many do you mean by a lot have the issue? 5, 10, 5000, 500000. These terms cause a lot of confusion in my opinion and are not helpful in determining if it is a big issue, especially to someone reading only a few posts.
I gotcha. I would qualify "a lot" by saying I've seen easily way over a hundred such posts right here, and many more elsewhere. I've also seen many mentions of windshields as being a common defect on CR-V's and even more on Elements and other Honda models. If you want numbers, the information is out there - do some research. I've done mine, for years, and am simply reporting on what I've learned. Of course, windshields are not the only common CR-V defect, or the worst or most numerous, but they are definitely on the list, and have been for long enough that it is not news. Also, this is not me singling Honda or the CR-V out - in recent years it has become a very common industry-wide thing. And it obviously has not prevented me from buying a CR-V or being pretty happy with it. But there are folks out there that are unhappy enough with this issue to leave Honda for good. Most of those I've seen on here were Gen 5 owners, some of whom have gone through multiple replacements in a short time, and not due to road hazard issues. I would call that a defect, and I don't think I need to defend that conclusion.
 
41 - 60 of 60 Posts
Top