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I'm not sure I'd agree with that. It might be true as the trucks leave the refinery, but any fuel, no matter how good, can degrade if stored too long, or under adverse or contaminated conditions.
I'm not sure if the old adage to not fuel up if the tanker is delivering is correct or not, the theory being the delivery will rile up detritus on the bottom of the tank I guess?
But I assume they have those thingamajigs called "filters"? :)
In any case I prefer stations that sell a lot of branded fuel to "Joe's Country Store and Gas", even if Joe is cheaper.
Modern engines can burn almost anything without noticeably knock or ping, but that doesn't mean it's best for them in the long term.
(If there actually IS a "Joe's Country Store and Gas" I apologize, the name was fictional and only for illustration)
I would disagree. I will explain my part why.
When one pulls up at a modern gas station in north America, how does one determine if the fuel is degraded..? There is no way to tell. Even when pulling up at Joes Country Store and Gas. The gas is bought wholesale and the margin made is miniscule if any. The money is made from the convenience store. But for that to happen people need to be filling up. So the fuel must have a decent turnaround. Independents are really hard to run long term. Thats why most people go franchise now. The model is easier.

Not only that the gas station has to be strategically located now. For example on a long trip people fill up on the edge of the city as they leave(human nature) and again at the 1.5 or 3 hour mark. This is determined by coffee and pee break. The absolute is the three hour mark for gas. Around those areas places like McDonalds, restaurants, coffee houses spring up. Many old gas stations in between those areas don't exist anymore. Or they have gone bust in the last 30 years as driving habits and car reliability have improved. Anything outside of that (depending on what places are in between) people are not going to stop to fill up.

So a gas station needs a specific volume of traffic to be economically viable. Also modern cars don't break down as much, they have better fuel filters, more refined engine and ECU's that compensate if things are going pear shaped.
So statistically speaking speaking, the likelihood of filling up stale petroleum at Joes gas station(or of them existing) is extremely low. Even if one did. It would not impact the engine as much.
 

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I would disagree. I will explain my part why.
When one pulls up at a modern gas station in north America, how does one determine if the fuel is degraded..? There is no way to tell....

So a gas station needs a specific volume of traffic to be economically viable. Also modern cars don't break down as much, they have better fuel filters, more refined engine and ECU's that compensate if things are going pear shaped.
So statistically speaking speaking, the likelihood of filling up stale petroleum at Joes gas station(or of them existing) is extremely low. Even if one did. It would not impact the engine as much.
This may be true; however, I just ran an experiment comparing one station with another (BP and Shell) at different times of the week and the busiest station gave a noticeable pep in acceleration... the comparison was repeatable. So, while all gasoline sold should be 'ok', some are fresher and may produce a bigger bang.
 

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Everything in Moderation
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different times of the week
Ambient temps and humidity could have affected your results, you know.

Or something you ate could have re-calibrated your Butt Dyno... :rolleyes: :giggle:



Difficult to determine if (and how much) the different octane might have affected any results.
 

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This may be true; however, I just ran an experiment comparing one station with another (BP and Shell) at different times of the week and the busiest station gave a noticeable pep in acceleration... the comparison was repeatable. So, while all gasoline sold should be 'ok', some are fresher and may produce a bigger bang.
Can you say a self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias?

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I would disagree. I will explain my part why.
When one pulls up at a modern gas station in north America, how does one determine if the fuel is degraded..? There is no way to tell. Even when pulling up at Joes Country Store and Gas. The gas is bought wholesale and the margin made is miniscule if any. The money is made from the convenience store. But for that to happen people need to be filling up. So the fuel must have a decent turnaround. Independents are really hard to run long term. Thats why most people go franchise now. The model is easier.

Not only that the gas station has to be strategically located now. For example on a long trip people fill up on the edge of the city as they leave(human nature) and again at the 1.5 or 3 hour mark. This is determined by coffee and pee break. The absolute is the three hour mark for gas. Around those areas places like McDonalds, restaurants, coffee houses spring up. Many old gas stations in between those areas don't exist anymore. Or they have gone bust in the last 30 years as driving habits and car reliability have improved. Anything outside of that (depending on what places are in between) people are not going to stop to fill up.

So a gas station needs a specific volume of traffic to be economically viable. Also modern cars don't break down as much, they have better fuel filters, more refined engine and ECU's that compensate if things are going pear shaped.
So statistically speaking speaking, the likelihood of filling up stale petroleum at Joes gas station(or of them existing) is extremely low. Even if one did. It would not impact the engine as much.
All true, except it ignores Honda recommendation to only use top tier fuel. Top Tier Fuel.

Stick with Honda recommendations, or at least please stop trying to convince other owners that any low cost cheap gas they can find will work fine. Given the high pressure fuel systems in modern DI engines... it seems imprudent not to use top tier fuel. Doubly so in gen5 CRVs that have reported some issues with fuel injectors at about the 75K mark.

And no.. it is not difficult to determine if a fuel is top tier or not. It's published all over the internet, by brand, by state, etc.
 

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This may be true; however, I just ran an experiment comparing one station with another (BP and Shell) at different times of the week and the busiest station gave a noticeable pep in acceleration... the comparison was repeatable. So, while all gasoline sold should be 'ok', some are fresher and may produce a bigger bang.
I seriously doubt that any operating fuel station has fuel that is older than one week in it's ground tanks. They literally have deliveries made daily or multiple times per week.

The real issue with fuel stations is how well they maintain their ground tanks... because if they do not.. then they will accumulate water and other contaminants over time that sink to the bottom of the tank unless it is routinely churned and filtered for contaminants. Generally any contaminants are stopped by the dispensing pump now days, so this is less of a concern.. but a shoddy station selling gas cheaper than everyone else would be highly suspect of not maintaining their ground tanks, and may even be diluting octane.
 

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So.. what is one of the most common octane boosters used in modern fuel blends for motor vehicles?

Answer: Ethanol. Cheap, nontoxic in combustion, and effective for the purpose.

And given that e10 fuels can actually have some variation in ethanol percentage under current regulations, any sense of difference in response from your new tank of gas is... either due to small variations in octane (which I doubt), or just your mind playing little tricks on you. I will vote that it is the mind playing tricks.

Since the engine control system constantly adjusts a wide range of parameters to control fuel burn and engine performance, your vehicle will work hard to normalize any variations in fuel octane. Seriously, if you put 91 octane in your tank, your engine will shift fuel trims to account for it and while that may result in better fuel trim, as long as fuel trims remain in spec, it really does not matter. Same with 89 octane, and frankly same with 85 octane only the engine controls will be working in the opposing direction with lower octane fuel. In a 1.5T CRV, I very much doubt you will see measurable changes in fuel economy with changes in octane.
 

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The only way the engine will "see" a difference in octane, is if the engine experiences preignition/detonation, then the knock sensor in combination with the ECU will reduce ignition timing.
 

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All true, except it ignores Honda recommendation to only use top tier fuel. Top Tier Fuel.

Stick with Honda recommendations, or at least please stop trying to convince other owners that any low cost cheap gas they can find will work fine. Given the high pressure fuel systems in modern DI engines... it seems imprudent not to use top tier fuel. Doubly so in gen5 CRVs that have reported some issues with fuel injectors at about the 75K mark.

And no.. it is not difficult to determine if a fuel is top tier or not. It's published all over the internet, by brand, by state, etc.
Convincing people to buy low cost gas will work fine and is perfectly reasonable.
In the current market what the statistical likelihood of not putting top tier gasoline in ones vehicle..? The gasoline comes from wholesalers.

The argument is akin to telling people not to drink cheap tapwater and to buy expensive bottled water in case the water company has not maintained its facilities. Then using mother nature as a example to say the body was designed for 'natural spring water' so thats what we should use. Technically the latter is correct, but in the grand scheme of things. Its utter nonsense argument. Tap water is fine (unless one is living in Flint).

Lets me explain why.
In the current day and climate it is not economically viable for a gas station to sell 'cheap gas'. The gas station market in the last fifteen years has changed dramatically. If one searches for cheap gas the big players will come up (i.e Costco etc). The independents retailers will have gas that is more expensive. Look it up. They cannot compete with Costco and Shell etc. They are neither in prime location either as the cost of development is higher. They have eiher gone out of business or turned to the franchises. They do not have the purchasing power to buy the fuel as the big players. Because of that they are going to the big players and turning into franchises. They have higher maintenance standards too. Those underground tanks do have to be replaced or maintained. The legal liability not to is not worth the risk. Over the last fifteen years the gas retailing market has changed a lot.

About a month ago. I went to a town in BC with a family member who is in commercial real estate. We looked at a independent gas station that went bust. We looked at the economics of it and what it would take to repackage and sell. You could not resell that as a independent. The gas tanks would have to be replaced and even before that a contamination/environmental assessment would have to be done. Then one would have to go to a franchise based model for the gas to be competitive. To bring people in, one would put a Tim Hortons or Starbucks inside. Thats the only way to make money.

If one actually went to a independent, that gas would cost you more. The economics of it makes it so. For those stations to econmically exist are rare now. Even if they do, as stated before the gas is from wholesalers.
A cousin of mine is in the process of building a gas station in a new development. They went franchise. The contract is pretty strict.

Lets look at what we mean by cheap gasoline. Look at gas prices at stations in general. Its not off by much, only a cent here and there. To the average joe in real terms its makes no difference. Its just more psychological. The only place that does make a difference is Costco. That saves about $5-7 on a 2002 Honda(Canadian) on a fillup. If the gas station is on a Indian Reservation (we have a Costco that is on a reserve here) the savings are more due to taxes. But who is going to drive out of their way to do that? Im not, im going down the road to fill up at Shell and buy a kit kat. Cheap gasoline is not really cheap. One just saves a couple of dollars really and that is lost by buying a kit kat.

Back in the 80s, 90s, 2000's I went to India to visit relatives. The roads were horrendous, gas stations not as reliable and maintence was definitely not done regularly. The vehicles that survived this were Hondas and Toyotas. They have to be slightly over engineered.
If Toyota and Hondas work fine in South Asia. I have absolute confidence that in north America buying cheap gasoline will be fine in a Honda.

As for some Gen5 reporting fuel injector issues. I would be keen to see the data and how the vehicles were driven and maintained. The reason is, we have a litigation culture in north America. It takes a few to tarnish it for the rest. The Toyota Prius matt getting stuck was a prime example. But that is a whole different discussion.

So yes. Buy the cheapest gasoline. Statistically it will be Top Tier and OP will be fine.
 

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So yes. Buy the cheapest gasoline. Statistically it will be Top Tier and OP will be fine.
Statistically, eh?

Statistically, one single mistake in your assessment of fuel quality based on price alone could result in some very expensive repair bills for your vehicle. You only need one time buying contaminated or low grade fuel in order to set up a cascade of fuel related issues. And yes.. we do see reports in our forum from time to time of an owner whose vehicle began malfunctioning right after refueling, took it in for service, and the dealer determined bad fuel as cause and had to completely flush and clean out the fuel system on the owners wallet.

Some risks are worth taking, but saving a few cents on fuel and buying fuel not clearly denoted as top tier.. is an owners unforced error.

No thanks. I will look up gas providers online to see which ones actually do pump top tier fuel and stick with them.

There is absolutely no merit in buying cheap gas that does not meet top tier fuel standards. All it does is set you up for some possible very expensive repair bills down the road. Why take the risk, for a few cents per gallon savings?

ANY... ANY fluids you put in your vehicle should conform to Honda specifications and requirements, and one fluid I would not cut corners on to save a few cents would be gasoline.

Your vehicle, your choice. My vehicle my choice, and I will stick with Honda's recommendations for what fuel I dispense into my Honda.
 

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Im going on a 500mile road trip and was wondering if running mid range 89 would maybe give the car better milage, performance and maybe help de-gunk the engine. anyone here run 89 or above on their CRVs?
I have a 2017 CRV Touring with the 1.5 L engine. I’ve done that in the past and noticed a slight uptick in performance, but it was at a cost of mpg’s.
 

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I have used techron in the past and never found it to improve my performance or mileage. I just use top tier gas

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Before today I've never heard of this designation for gasoline. Checking the list I don't see any of the gas I normally use listed, and have used the same gas for thirty years or so. Never had any problems with my engines using gas from these places. Every other tank or so I use E15 which is 88 octane and .15/gallon cheaper. I notice no reduction in mileage using any fuel type. Two weeks ago I went on a one day, 400 mile trip and averaged 42 MPG. I started with a tank of E85, filled up at my destination with regular E90 (at an unlisted station). The stations I normally use are Sheetz, Murphy USA, and grocery store station, Harris Teeter. If any of them have a TopTier label anywhere I never noticed it, but I'll check the next time I go.
 

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89 octane is all we have ever run in our car since brand new. I cannot honestly say if it makes a difference or not but we are averaging over 37 miles per gallon on our CRV since we’ve had it .
Im going on a 500mile road trip and was wondering if running mid range 89 would maybe give the car better milage, performance and maybe help de-gunk the engine. anyone here run 89 or above on their CRVs?
 

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States at higher elevations, say about 5000 feet, sell gas with 85 octane. It turns out the sale of 85 gas octane was allowed by the EPA years ago when most cars had carburetors (watch this video at 11:14). I found that very interesting.

I will be using 87 or better as it is what Honda recommends.
 

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Honda says to use Top Tier 87 or higher, so we run higher. It may take a little while for the computer to learn it, but I have found that it learns faster if you get it into VTEC range with the higher octane.

On factory stock Honda VTEC and turbo engines, Hondata and Car and Driver have both found gains of anywhere from 8 wheel horsepower on up -- depending on a variety of factors.

On the K24W9, I have noticed a bump in torque down low and a bit of power up top. While it is a bump, whether that bump is worth it to you depends on your needs.
Anyone find it odd that the C & D horsepower and torque numbers are so far off of Honda’s regardless of octane?
 

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Just use top tier gas.
Gas is gas. I’ve been using the cheapest lowest octane for over 40 yrs. my Audi 5000tq used it too. I’ve tried the lowest octane on several 1000 mile trips and never saw a dif. In mileage. So slow down and you’d see the best mileage at 60-65. And keep filters clean too. Any water in your tank probably would have come from condensation from an empty tank. Varnish and gunk on valves probably would have come from fumes that contain oil vapor and dust that escaped thru the filters. Only carb cleaner can cut that. Proof? Never saw any done by an independent source.
 

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Im going on a 500mile road trip and was wondering if running mid range 89 would maybe give the car better milage, performance and maybe help de-gunk the engine. anyone here run 89 or above on their CRVs?
I filled up with 89 octane last week as the 87 handle was broken at the gas station I was at. I noticed no difference in the running of the engine or gas mileage.
 
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