Do you warm up in the morning before driving off?
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No. I just start it up and then drive moderately (low speed) for the first miles and then gradually increase to highway speed. I believe this is better for the engine.
I won't say that this is better for everyone. My vehicles are garaged and in south central Illinois we don't experience extreme cold very often. My work commute before retiring was 10 miles of highway driving. After just a few miles the engine and cabin were at normal temps. Of course seat heaters are a wonderful invention.
Everyone doesn't have the same situation. If I lived in an extreme cold area, further north for example, then I believe I would have an engine block heater installed and perhaps several minutes of idling before driving off. It is a tough deal for owners who live in adversely cold climates and have short drives to the workplace and then maybe they are driving slower in heavy traffic.
So, we just try to do what is best for our Honda and our personal needs.
I won't say that this is better for everyone. My vehicles are garaged and in south central Illinois we don't experience extreme cold very often. My work commute before retiring was 10 miles of highway driving. After just a few miles the engine and cabin were at normal temps. Of course seat heaters are a wonderful invention.
Everyone doesn't have the same situation. If I lived in an extreme cold area, further north for example, then I believe I would have an engine block heater installed and perhaps several minutes of idling before driving off. It is a tough deal for owners who live in adversely cold climates and have short drives to the workplace and then maybe they are driving slower in heavy traffic.
So, we just try to do what is best for our Honda and our personal needs.
You do not need to idle your cars to warm up your engines before driving off on modern cars. It can actually be hurting your car.
Idling to warm up was only true for old cars. It's not an opinion as much as it's a fact. Some basic research will show that.
Your car warms up faster driving than just idling anyways. Treating your car more gently until it's warmed up is a good idea though.
Idling to warm up was only true for old cars. It's not an opinion as much as it's a fact. Some basic research will show that.
Your car warms up faster driving than just idling anyways. Treating your car more gently until it's warmed up is a good idea though.
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Omg would people here stop spewing this IGNORANCE. Stop believing everything you read.
Actually all research by any credible company says the exact opposite.
You live in San Fransisco, have you ever seen snow??? Since it never drops below 40F there YOU HAVE NO NEED. For those of us that actually know what winter is more than watching it on TV, we warm up our cars.
As mentioned, living in a cold climate its required. Just starting and driving off once it drops below around 20F and especially below zero is rapid death for a drivetrain.
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Just wondering. If there is no place to go at it easy, do you just push the throttle while in parked or neutral to help the engine warm up? And in the worst case, is idling and waiting to warm up bad for the engine? Some say yes.
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Every person who says its bad on an engine for it to idle when cold is 100% wrong.
My life is diagnostic repair and rebuild of engines.
Idle at cold temps (below 20 is when it should start to be considered, below 0F is required or Ill place bets on how many miles before that new engine breaks) is not a problem. Its best to leave at idle based on how cold.
Basically below freezing just a minute or 2.
Below 10F 5 minutes minimum. Give the oil a chance to thin out and start flow both engine and transmission.
All anyone one has to do is google "engine oil below zero" and you can see how thick that oil becomes as temps get colder.
Here in northern illinois we saw a few nights it was more than -30. Warm up time in the mornings, 15+ minutes at idle just to be safe giving the transmission a chance to thaw a little first.
I actually miss I old chevys in this regard. Just waited for coolant to hit 40-50f (unless sub zero then 90F) and go.
Our hondas now must be above the beginning line of the cold side of temp gauge before they move if below 20F. I told my wife I ever catch her starting and just taking off in the cold with her odyssey I wad putting her on the corner to earn the money to replace the drivetrain when it fails. And I wasnt joking. I hear her go start it every morning or start cussing that shes going to be late to work cause she forgot to start it.
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Define what you consider rapid death. I don't idle, those I know don't idle and none of our cars have had rapid death to the drivetrain. Living here in Ontario Canada so 20F equivalent temps are common in the winter.
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1990's 30 seconds off you go, did i say off I go no/ todays engines do not need a long time to get up and go extreme temps do not play in the factor. but who am I?
Please cite some of these so called "credible companies" and their research. Loads of auto magazines, general news companies, and even the EPA itself advises against it.
Here is an article from business insiders who asked someone with a PhD in mechanical engineering the question: http://www.businessinsider.com/here...-doing-to-your-engine-and-its-not-good-2016-1
It specifically addresses winter conditions. I might not have the knowledge, but are you really going to say that someone with a relevant PhD and who has worked on engines for decades is ignorant?
It's not just one article either. I've read articles from NPR and motortrend and others on it. They all unequivocally say the same thing. Literally most credible sources all say that there is no need to idle even in winter conditions.
Just because you lived your life diagnosing and repairing engines does not mean you're right. I would take the word of someone who has studied, worked on, and developed engines over someone who has only done a subset of that. Excuse me when I take the word of what is general consensus over the word of some guy on a forum.
If you can pull up some of this research you claim is out there, that's going to be a lot more persuasive than you claiming to work on engines.
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Missed half that statement, referred to below 0F. Or in your case -18C. 20F I even said only briefly to get oil and such moving freely. No need to sit for 5-10-15 or so minutes at 20F. 20F is an "estimate" of when some common oils start thickening enough to become noticeable to the engine. Good synthetics can go MUCH COLDER, cheap oils 20F they can start pouring like molasses.
How many of you keep your vehicles from new till well over 200k miles (not kilometers, big difference)? Not a single one of those drivetrains will last that long without major repairs. And dont let the car idle at all when its below -18C outside? Bet you and the rest go from many to none when it gets THAT cold.
Compared to how long an engine can last, the death will be a lot sooner than it could have been.
See it every winter too. Broken cams, blown lifters, engines start knocking, timing chain component failures, automatic transmissions with broken hard parts (drums, planets, gears) and the list goes on.
And this excludes those with garages or block warmers of course.
Oil gets thicker the colder it gets and its rapid. Ever seen what happens to oil at -40F???
The only time its horrible to sit and idle is hot summer days. No engine oil likes that.
Its long periods of idling that is hard on engines. Not a few minutes or so to warm up on a frigid cold day. Better to do so than not.
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Be happy to considering 2 of my closest friends are, and my closest friends son is an aeronautics engineer.
Simplest one is oil viscosity testing at sub zero temperatures. More videos than I care to count just to start with.
Sorry I dont go off of paid advertising which is what motor trend and such is. Nothing more than what the car manufacturers pay them to say.
Your someone who listens to media and marketing, Ive been in this industry and very close with engineers of more than one automaker for more than 16 yrs. The fact (which has been proven numerous times) that those in the deepest reaches of a field always know more than some PhD behind a desk.
But regardless Ill dig up actual scientific studies instead of paid marketing campaigns to sell more disposable vehicles.
Also EVERY SINGLE ONE of your sources goes off on the fuel/air mixture matter which has zero to do with the actual issue. Its oil being too thick and rubber seals and such being hard and stiff.
Also every one is referencing temps of 20f, all say idle for at least several seconds. Yet every article posted by those actually working in the field all support what I am saying.
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Gobsmacked !!!
If you want non-media proof you can simply look at other forums. They will also all virtually agree with what I said. This is a really common question.
Here's a discussion on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/5id8jz/warming_your_car_up_in_the_winter_wasteful_or/
Top answer is from someone claiming to be an automotive engineer.
I don't have a problem being skeptical about the media. I think we should be, but using that as the basis of your counterargument is simply ridiculous. Besides I've already said that the EPA (inb4 the EPA is a shill for car companies) has also said the same.
We'll talk when you've dug up these studies. I'm open to being wrong, but not when you're not presenting more than what is merely a minority opinion without the evidence behind it that you're claiming to have.
what I do in ver cold mornings is to apply gas while not in gear to rev the engine to a low rpm. As soon as the temp gauge moves a little bit, them I start driving. I have never seen anyone do this. I have never had an engine failure either.
You do realize that most oil is rated for below zero driving right? The oil was literally designed to work on below zero temperature. If your oil is too cold to actually work then you're running the wrong oil. A change of oil would fix that.
Idling for a few seconds isn't a problem. That's not even what the question is asking if you were paying attention. If you want to idle 30 secs go for it, but the question is asking whether you should idle until the engine is warm. You can drive and not hurt your engine anymore from just starting and driving as long as you drive gently until your car is warmed up.
EDIT: Just to further illustrate the point about oil the oil's viscosity Honda says to use in the owner's manual from is 0W-20. That's common in most modern cars. Since you work on engines I don't need to tell that that means modern cars use a much lighter viscosity oil which means its thickness isn't as big of a deal in low temps.
I live in Tennesse, where it only gets below freezing a couple of months a year.
Most of the time I get in, turn the engine on, check the mirrors, buckle my seat belt, turn the radio on, and then look around to make sure it's safe to back out of my parking space.
In colder weather I start the engine, then grab the ice scraper/snow brush and clear the windows and lights before driving off, which does take a few minutes.
I did the same for previous vehicles, too.
Most of the time I get in, turn the engine on, check the mirrors, buckle my seat belt, turn the radio on, and then look around to make sure it's safe to back out of my parking space.
In colder weather I start the engine, then grab the ice scraper/snow brush and clear the windows and lights before driving off, which does take a few minutes.
I did the same for previous vehicles, too.
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If you read all of my post I even said I dont warm up that long. I warm up for several minutes when its well below zero.
First off, NEVER EVER use a "Ford Engineer" as an example lol. No disrespect to you but that reddit thread and some of what you used as sources was good laughs while pooping lol. Ford and engineer are 2 things that dont go together and a ford engineer doesnt exist on what we expect of an engineer. Look up their triton motors, their power shift transmissions just to name 2 I dealt with this week. A 3 yr old ford is barely driveable in my opinion cause the transmission is garbage and Ford is dealing with lawsuits in multiple countries.
Rarely can ford make anything that lasts without serious issues.
SOME modern oils are good below zero. Reason I run no less than mobile 1 (whats in my wifes odyssey) and Royal Purple in my CRV. Wifes odyssey is going royal purple though, mobile 1 summer performance sucks.
Valvoline is about as garbage as walmart brand oil. Their synthetics almost cost me an engine cause they perform no better in hot weather than cheap conventional.
"Warming up" leaves a big gap. But rarely are my vehicles at running temp when I drive away as I said.
Google is crap for finding the studies, had to send a couple emails to get links to them.
My favorite "shop test" was some guys that took AMS, Royal Purpl, Mobil 1 and Walmart oil to -40F. Conventional oils suck in the cold. 5w and 0w synthetics are sub zero oils.
But how many people run that? Especially from top brands?
I should have clarified no disrespect to you and others, but I have stated the reasons (all of which are easily found) why sub zero start and go is bad.
For you personally you never see cold or winter unless its for a weekend.
Oh and questioning media, I dont question in this case, I would call any of these guys a moron to their face on prime time TV cause they are.
Here is an excerpt from every article on google except those supported by automakers
" Reason 2: Engine oil doesn’t like cold much either
In cold weather, engine oil becomes thicker and doesn’t flow as well, so moving the engine parts through it is harder. That means that your battery, which has been weakened by the cold, actually has to do more to get the engine moving so it can start"
Literally saw that paragraph about 20 times now in one for or another.
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First off, NEVER EVER use a "Ford Engineer" as an example lol. No disrespect to you but that reddit thread and some of what you used as sources was good laughs while pooping lol. Ford and engineer are 2 things that dont go together and a ford engineer doesnt exist on what we expect of an engineer. Look up their triton motors, their power shift transmissions just to name 2 I dealt with this week. A 3 yr old ford is barely driveable in my opinion cause the transmission is garbage and Ford is dealing with lawsuits in multiple countries.
Rarely can ford make anything that lasts without serious issues.
SOME modern oils are good below zero. Reason I run no less than mobile 1 (whats in my wifes odyssey) and Royal Purple in my CRV. Wifes odyssey is going royal purple though, mobile 1 summer performance sucks.
Valvoline is about as garbage as walmart brand oil. Their synthetics almost cost me an engine cause they perform no better in hot weather than cheap conventional.
"Warming up" leaves a big gap. But rarely are my vehicles at running temp when I drive away as I said.
Google is crap for finding the studies, had to send a couple emails to get links to them.
My favorite "shop test" was some guys that took AMS, Royal Purpl, Mobil 1 and Walmart oil to -40F. Conventional oils suck in the cold. 5w and 0w synthetics are sub zero oils.
But how many people run that? Especially from top brands?
I should have clarified no disrespect to you and others, but I have stated the reasons (all of which are easily found) why sub zero start and go is bad.
For you personally you never see cold or winter unless its for a weekend.
Oh and questioning media, I dont question in this case, I would call any of these guys a moron to their face on prime time TV cause they are.
Here is an excerpt from every article on google except those supported by automakers
" Reason 2: Engine oil doesn’t like cold much either
In cold weather, engine oil becomes thicker and doesn’t flow as well, so moving the engine parts through it is harder. That means that your battery, which has been weakened by the cold, actually has to do more to get the engine moving so it can start"
Literally saw that paragraph about 20 times now in one for or another.
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I did not vote because none of the options apply to me. By warm up I assume you mean 5-10 minutes of idling? No I never do that, I basically run the engine for about a minute just to let the oil fully circulate. I think 30 seconds is probably good enough but I always have a few things to adjust before driving so a minute is pretty much the time it takes to get the radio set on a station, the seat belts on and check the gas level, mirrors etc.
Rob
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