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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
New 2019 Honda CR-V LX AWD w/splash guards, & Lifetime warranty(parts & labor) on drive train (engine/transmission).
Negotiated Dealer Price: $22,511‬.00
Destination fee: $1095.00
Price including destination fee: $23,606.00
Il State Sales Tax (6.25%): $1,475.38
IL New Vehicle Registration/Plates: $101
IL New Vehicle Title Fee: $150.00
Dealer Documentation Fee: $180.00
Additional Sales Tax for Honda Conquest/Loyalty Rebates : $44.00
Total out the door: $25,556.00
Springfield, Il Honda Dealer

Factory MSRP $25,850.00 (not including Dest. Fee) or,
$25,954 (w/splash guards $104.00)
MINUS...Total Dealer Discounts, and Rebates: $3,443.00
=Negotiated Dealer Price: $22,511.00
13.27% off Factory MSRP

I don't know what value to assign to the dealer's "Lifetime warranty(parts & labor) on drive train (engine/transmission)". It's very restrictive, requiring that ALL required maintenance be performed on time and at the dealership...including oil/filter changes, currently $38.00 (full synthetic) w/ car wash. Seems reasonable.
But, it's the nit-picky, high dollar, non-warranty stuff that seems to always appear whenever they do their "Multi-point inspections", that I fear!
In my previous 50 years of car buying/maintenance, I tended to avoid the dealer, opting instead for a longtime friend... father/son local repair shop.
So, please let me know about your experience with Honda.
 

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Thousands.;)
 

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I start negotiating at 20% off and willing to settle at 15% with a check and pen in hand. I've gotten up, left the dealership many times. Sometimes I get a call back, sometimes I don't. Thousands are left on the table even at 15% off. How else do the manufacturers and dealerships stay in business.
 

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I start negotiating at 20% off and willing to settle at 15% with a check and pen in hand. I've gotten up, left the dealership many times. Sometimes I get a call back, sometimes I don't. Thousands are left on the table even at 15% off. How else do the manufacturers and dealerships stay in business.
The majority of a new car dealer's income, actually comes from the service side of the business. :)
 

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I start negotiating at 20% off and willing to settle at 15% with a check and pen in hand. I've gotten up, left the dealership many times. Sometimes I get a call back, sometimes I don't. Thousands are left on the table even at 15% off. How else do the manufacturers and dealerships stay in business.
Dealerships do not stay in business from vehicle sales per se. They stay in business from the profit margins on "dealer installed options" and service and maintenance on vehicles.

They are not going to lose money on a sale of course, and some will try to scalp you on trade in if you are going that route as part of the purchase... but overall.. these days... with internet selling being common... the era of the price scalping dealer selling new vehicles at markups is largely gone. Simply too much competition as buyers sit at home and internet search and negotiate. As such.. margins on vehicle sales are low... but they hope to keep you as a customer for maintenance and service. We have a lot of Honda dealers within an hour or two drive from where I live and they all fight for your business. There is only one of them that I am aware of that routinely marks-up above sticker prices, and also likes to put a lot of addons on top.. and they lose a lot of potential sales over it. I'm sure they do still find enough suckers to keep them in fresh sales though.. or they would be more competitive.

Manufacturers transfer to dealers at pre-determined prices, sometimes with some holdback incentives to promote higher volume sales... so the manufacturers have no downside from the final sales price by a dealer.
 

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The majority of a new car dealer's income, actually comes from the service side of the business. :)
Dealerships do not stay in business from vehicle sales per se. They stay in business from the profit margins on "dealer installed options" and service and maintenance on vehicles.

They are not going to lose money on a sale of course, and some will try to scalp you on trade in if you are going that route as part of the purchase... but overall.. these days... with internet selling being common... the era of the price scalping dealer selling new vehicles at markups is largely gone. Simply too much competition as buyers sit at home and internet search and negotiate. As such.. margins on vehicle sales are low... but they hope to keep you as a customer for maintenance and service. We have a lot of Honda dealers within an hour or two drive from where I live and they all fight for your business. There is only one of them that I am aware of that routinely marks-up above sticker prices, and also likes to put a lot of addons on top.. and they lose a lot of potential sales over it. I'm sure they do still find enough suckers to keep them in fresh sales though.. or they would be more competitive.

Manufacturers transfer to dealers at pre-determined prices, sometimes with some holdback incentives to promote higher volume sales... so the manufacturers have no downside from the final sales price by a dealer.
How about "expertly" responding to Post #3, from the OP?
 

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How about "expertly" responding to Post #3, from the OP?
Because MSRP is a compeltely fictitious metric to base any discussion on in the context of a vehicle sale. This has been true for years.. as buyers figured out that dealer invoice is a much better indicator of how much margin there is on a vehicle being offered for sale. No sane person pays MSRP in the era of internet sales... much less negotiates around that as a number. They negotiate around a number largely derived from dealer invoice. See my next paragraph for how that actually plays out these days.

Sane people first check online to obtain averate selling price, plus % varuiance range, for their locality and the vehicle they want to purchase. There are many good sources for this.. from CR.. to KBB... etc. etc. etc. Then they contact local dealers by internet and ask for "best pricing" while at the same time tapping CR, TrueCar, or <insert your favorite car buying service here> for best pricing. Then they play the dealers off on one another and in the end.. almost all vehicles in a particular locality are sold within a few % points of what the car buying services presented to the requestor. And NONE of this has anything directly to do with MSRP.

In point of fact... MSRP is essentially the same for every vehicle no matter where it is purchased, yet the actual selling prices and variance to the price (the curve distribution) does vary by location... for a range of reasons.
 

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Because MSRP is a compeltely fictitious metric to base any discussion on in the context of a vehicle sale. This has been true for years.. as buyers figured out that dealer invoice is a much better indicator of how much margin there is on a vehicle being offered for sale. No sane person pays MSRP in the era of internet sales... much less negotiates around that as a number. They negotiate around a number largely derived from dealer invoice. See my next paragraph for how that actually plays out these days.

Sane people first check online to obtain averate selling price, plus % varuiance range, for their locality and the vehicle they want to purchase. There are many good sources for this.. from CR.. to KBB... etc. etc. etc. Then they contact local dealers by internet and ask for "best pricing" while at the same time tapping CR, TrueCar, or <insert your favorite car buying service here> for best pricing. Then they play the dealers off on one another and in the end.. almost all vehicles in a particular locality are sold within a few % points of what the car buying services presented to the requestor. And NONE of this has anything directly to do with MSRP.

In point of fact... MSRP is essentially the same for every vehicle no matter where it is purchased, yet the actual selling prices and variance to the price (the curve distribution) does vary by location... for a range of reasons.
Why do you keep quoting me :rolleyes:, why not respond to the OP. It's HIS question, in HIS post (#3), and HIS thread, not mine. Duh. He asked a simple question.........well, simple to most anyhow. Why do so many of the threads here have to end in an on and on rant?

To the OP, don't worry about what you left on the table. You did ok, better than some, maybe not as good as a few others........just enjoy your new ride.
 
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Why do you keep quoting me :rolleyes:, why not respond to the OP. It's HIS question, in HIS post (#3), and HIS thread, not mine. Duh. He asked a simple question.........well, simple to most anyhow. Why do so many of the threads here have to end in an on and on rant?

To the OP, don't worry about what you left on the table. You did ok, better than some, maybe not as good as a few others........just enjoy your new ride.
Because it was you that specifically "demanded" I respond to the post, not the OP. ;)

And nobody is ranting in this thread, with the possible exception of this last post by you. :eek:
 

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Hah, hah, hah.........."demand(ed)". ROTF, LMAO! Only place I see "demand(ed)" is in post #11. Would you prefer I said bloviate vs rant? Some other member said "drivel" in another another thread. I kinda agree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Starting points..:MSRP or Dealer Invoice? Perhaps, I used the wrong term...MSRP. The Honda (build-a-car) site refers to it as "Base Price". MSRP at the dealer sites may or may not include dest. fees...which does muddy the waters a bit. But, it is easy enough to sort that out. The reason for using MSRP (factory base price) is that it is the only common denominator for a specific vehicle, across all dealerships, nationwide.
On the other hand, TRUE dealer invoice, the dealer's TRUE investment in the subject vehicle, varies widely depending on a dealership's volume of sales, local ad participation, hold-backs, factory incentives, conquest/loyalty rebates, floor planning interest, the number of days/months on the dealer's lot...etc.. In short, nobody except the dealership owner's accountant knows what the dealer actually paid for the vehicle!
So, in my search for the CR-V I always started with the Factory Base Price figure... "MSRP Lite". Even the Destination Fee, varied from $845-$1095, depending on the dealership. I knew full well that Honda dealers would immediately come off the Factory Base Price by 5-10%. I never once made an offer, I just kept saying "No" to whatever their latest offer was.until none of them, save one, seemed interested. Somebody here said they started at 20%, but never said where they ended up...So, the question was, and still remains, who has got a Honda dealer to come off "MSRP Lite", The Factory Base Price, by more than 13.27%?.
 

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I had a trade-in (most folks do), which substantially muddies the water regarding % off the new car window sticker number. A superb, looks new, trade-in most likely has more room for dealer profit than their new car.......especially if the superb trade-in is a loaded, somewhat rare, 5.3L V8 GMC Canyon P/U in triple black.

I'm just saying I start at 20% off the window sticker and work from there. One tactic I have used, and it works more often than not, is to give the salesperson a written offer in the form of a check........minus my signature. The salesperson takes my written offer to their manager and like I said, it's accepted/works more often than not. When it works, I sign my written offer.

I'd be willing to bet being face to face with a salesperson/manager, having your written offer/check in hand, gets a little more discount than any dealership internet offer.;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I had a trade-in (most folks do), which substantially muddies the water regarding % off the new car window sticker number. A superb, looks new, trade-in most likely has more room for dealer profit than their new car.......especially if the superb trade-in is a loaded, somewhat rare, 5.3L V8 GMC Canyon P/U in triple black.

I'm just saying I start at 20% off the window sticker and work from there. One tactic I have used, and it works more often than not, is to give the salesperson a written offer in the form of a check........minus my signature. The salesperson takes my written offer to their manager and like I said, it's accepted/works more often than not. When it works, I sign my written offer.

I'd be willing to bet being face to face with a salesperson/manager, having your written offer/check in hand, gets a little more discount than any dealership internet offer.;)
Your right...a trade-in muddies the waters...significantly, and yes, most people have one available...but also most people finance the balance. So, having an unsigned check as an offer tactic isn't applicable. Further...the difference between the top trade-in value, no matter how rare and pristine the vehicle is, and the private sale of the same vehicle is huge...prohibitively huge. In 50 years of buying new, and selling used personal vehicles, I have always considered the trade in route to be nothing more than a second opportunity to leave money on the table!
On another note, If I'd paid cash for the new CR-V, and used your unsigned check tactic, I would have lost more money. Honda is/was offering 1.9% interest, which is 1.5% less than I am currently earning on that same amount over the same period of time.
Finally, hunting for vehicles,and locking in pricing, over the internet using emails worked great for me. Each email and its response, documented the transaction conversations. When you are soliciting bids/offers from a dozen dealers, pitting one dealer against another, all of your previous dealings with that dealer are right in front of you. There was no need for a mano-a-mano standoff on their turf, the dealership floor, with professional sales peeps, who know every trick in the book. The only question left when I walked into the dealership to pick up the new CR-V was: "What in the hell ELSE is this guy gonna want to sign the contract." At that point, there wasn't much left so they threw in some free oil changes and car washes, a full tank of gas, and a lifetime warranty on the drive-train!
So, the question was, and still remains, who has got a Honda dealer to come off the Factory Base Price, by more than 13.27%?
 

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Until someone else responds or has already responded, you are the king of car wheeler dealers.......but you paid for oil changes, car washes, gas and warranty up front.......left them on the table along with money, so to speak. Next time I buy, I'll be using a credit card that gives an additional 1.5% back, and pay it off in 30 days.;)
 

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... Next time I buy, I'll be using a credit card that gives an additional 1.5% back, and pay it off in 30 days.;)
I'm not sure if you're serious, but if you are, good luck with that. If the dealer even allows you to use a credit card, they have to pay the card's processing fee, that is more than the 1.5% you'd be getting back. Guess where that money will come from?
 

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.........plenty of money left on the dealership’s table.
 
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