Link about starting your car in the winter. MSN Auto
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IMO it's a load of malarkey. Recommends an unsafe practice if you have ice or snow present. Cold oil simply does not flow or lubricate as well as warm oil. And where is this extra gas coming from? Fuel delivery is actually more, not less, tightly controllable with fi than with carburetion, and anyway, under what conditions would this extra fuel be present on the cylinder walls that means there would be more at idle than at gradually driving away? Or at all, for that matter, excepting, of course, for the current crop of cars with the fuel/oil issues. "Modern" engines are even more dependent than the old ones on reaching full operating temperature to function correctly, just like humans. Same with transmissions, and diesel engines.
I equate this kind of crap auto journalism to the stuff that periodically comes from the "health" industry that first says milk is good for you, and then it's not. Ad infinitum. It's the harbinger of a sad day, to me, because I remember when Popular Mechanics was a rock solid fixture in our world. I'm sorry to see their name besmirched with this tripe.
I equate this kind of crap auto journalism to the stuff that periodically comes from the "health" industry that first says milk is good for you, and then it's not. Ad infinitum. It's the harbinger of a sad day, to me, because I remember when Popular Mechanics was a rock solid fixture in our world. I'm sorry to see their name besmirched with this tripe.
Good gawd, this has been common knowledge for decades and has been suggested by multiple outlets, magazines, engineers, etc, but you are the expert I guess...
Hell, even Scotty Gilmore says you shouldn't warm up your vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEaYKmxk_yc
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/12/29/the-biggest-winter-energy-myth-that-you-need-to-idle-your-car-before-driving/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1c2b7e1629f8
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/12/28/frigid-mechanics-say-skip-warming-up-your-cars-engine/95923774/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a30249/why-you-shouldnt-warm-up-your-car/
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MSN is NOT the gospel of automotive knowledge, heck the majority of their 'reporters' likely cannot change a tire.
Bandit - No offense, but I think maybe you read what I said too quickly. If you go back and read it again, each thing I said is true:
1. ...unsafe practice if you have ice or snow present. True.
2. Cold oil simply does not flow or lubricate as well as warm oil. True at any weight of oil. Ask any engineer. Yes, light oil flows better cold, but it flows best at full operating temps.
3. Fuel delivery is actually more, not less, tightly controllable with fi than with carburetion, and anyway, under what conditions would this extra fuel be present on the cylinder walls that means there would be more at idle than at gradually driving away? Or at all, for that matter, excepting, of course, for the current crop of cars with the fuel/oil issues. True.
4. "Modern" engines are even more dependent than the old ones on reaching full operating temperature to function correctly and efficiently, just like humans. Same with transmissions, and diesel engines. True.
Also, none of this contradicts what Scotty Kilmer (not Gilmore) says. If you think it does, you are not paying close enough attention to the words. And he lives in Houston, near me, in a warm climate. I don't warm up the car either most of the year, because it's already warm before I start it here. But when it really is cold here, I do. And I promise you I have put more miles on any one of several vehicles than you will ever see in your driving lifetime.
It's not necessary to check your ripcord before you jump out of the plane, either, but I would. There are a lot of things not necessary, and even recommended, such as in these articles, but that does not make them best practice. The entire automotive industry depends on planned obsolescence, including the media. They want you to need a new car as soon as possible. What does that tell you?
I will say this: If you want your car to last longer, warm it up when it's cold. It's just common sense, which, as you say, went out of style decades ago, but that makes it not one iota less true. If you want to, you can believe this hype along with the hype from the same sources that tell you what a new or used car is worth. And you will get exactly what you deserve.
1. ...unsafe practice if you have ice or snow present. True.
2. Cold oil simply does not flow or lubricate as well as warm oil. True at any weight of oil. Ask any engineer. Yes, light oil flows better cold, but it flows best at full operating temps.
3. Fuel delivery is actually more, not less, tightly controllable with fi than with carburetion, and anyway, under what conditions would this extra fuel be present on the cylinder walls that means there would be more at idle than at gradually driving away? Or at all, for that matter, excepting, of course, for the current crop of cars with the fuel/oil issues. True.
4. "Modern" engines are even more dependent than the old ones on reaching full operating temperature to function correctly and efficiently, just like humans. Same with transmissions, and diesel engines. True.
Also, none of this contradicts what Scotty Kilmer (not Gilmore) says. If you think it does, you are not paying close enough attention to the words. And he lives in Houston, near me, in a warm climate. I don't warm up the car either most of the year, because it's already warm before I start it here. But when it really is cold here, I do. And I promise you I have put more miles on any one of several vehicles than you will ever see in your driving lifetime.
It's not necessary to check your ripcord before you jump out of the plane, either, but I would. There are a lot of things not necessary, and even recommended, such as in these articles, but that does not make them best practice. The entire automotive industry depends on planned obsolescence, including the media. They want you to need a new car as soon as possible. What does that tell you?
I will say this: If you want your car to last longer, warm it up when it's cold. It's just common sense, which, as you say, went out of style decades ago, but that makes it not one iota less true. If you want to, you can believe this hype along with the hype from the same sources that tell you what a new or used car is worth. And you will get exactly what you deserve.
If its really cold out, warm up the engine for no more than two minutes.
(If you think that's not a long time, try holding BOTH your hands fully out horizontally, palms up, for two minutes! :sweat: Make sure you are watching a timer, no cheating!) LOL
In my experience, that's enough time to start driving. You still need to go easy at first (idling in the driveway does nothing to appreciably 'warm up' suspensions, differentials, or transmissions).
Of course, the BEST thing is to park the car in a heated garage, both at home and at work! :temptation:
(If you think that's not a long time, try holding BOTH your hands fully out horizontally, palms up, for two minutes! :sweat: Make sure you are watching a timer, no cheating!) LOL
In my experience, that's enough time to start driving. You still need to go easy at first (idling in the driveway does nothing to appreciably 'warm up' suspensions, differentials, or transmissions).
Of course, the BEST thing is to park the car in a heated garage, both at home and at work! :temptation:
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I get in, start the car, buckle my seat belt, plug in my phone for Android Auto, wait for the Head Unit to display the warning, disengage the e-parking brake, then put it in reverse. I back out of the garage, slowly accelerate to 25 mph until I exit my subdivision ~1/4 mile, make a left turn onto a 40 mph street, which is sightly down hill, and accelerate to 40, then set the ACC.
Of course, parking in a garage doesn't present the "ice on windows issue"... oh, neither does living in southern AZ.
Of course, parking in a garage doesn't present the "ice on windows issue"... oh, neither does living in southern AZ.
"last longer and run smoother" is not a fact.
I like to not warm up my car and it lasts longer than yours and runs smoother too.
See how silly that sounds?
This whole topic is silly because it's almost impossible to measure damage done by doing one thing or the other.
Based on my experience with all the cars I have so no, I don't have to "prove" it to you, silly or not. I did say to each their own.
When there's snow or ice on the windows of my CR-V, I start the engine, then clean/scrape all of the windows, stow the scraper, and get in and drive away.
The rest of the time, winter or summer, I get in, start the engine, put on my seat belt, check the mirrors, then look around to see if it's safe to back out, and then go on my way.
I've been doing it that way since I moved to "cold country" from S. California more than 30 years ago, and it worked fine with three different generations of CR-Vs.
I have never had a garage to park in.
If you do it differently, then good for you.
The rest of the time, winter or summer, I get in, start the engine, put on my seat belt, check the mirrors, then look around to see if it's safe to back out, and then go on my way.
I've been doing it that way since I moved to "cold country" from S. California more than 30 years ago, and it worked fine with three different generations of CR-Vs.
I have never had a garage to park in.
If you do it differently, then good for you.
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How would you know? Do you use a time machine, or maybe you buy 2 identical cars, and your twin drives the other identical car the same route every day and year, without warming it, so you know it doesn’t last as long? Or is it the time machine you use to do it differently?
And many on this board have driven several generations of CRVs, but don't act like this generation is anything like the others because it's not.
Even down to the basics like checking the dang dipstick, this CRV is a different animal.
But again, there is no basis to prove or disprove which is best without two identical vehicles, which I do in fact own, but even then I don't have the ability to really compare the two because the maintenance, oil type and driving type are too different.
I guess we will see if my gf or my 5th gen lasts longer.
True. Only if I have had 2 identical cars and treated them differently then you might be convinced. But then even with that, one would argue that both cars must have been driven by the same person at the same time in the same way on the same route for my claim to be valid. That would be impossible. However, when I said "last longer", I meant to say my cars' engine continue to be quiet and smooth even with many miles on them and I personally experience very few problems with my cars. I guess you can practically make any car last forever if you are willing to fix them. But hey, that's my own experience and I'm not going to impose my opinion on you. Some cars might last long even when they get beaten up but that's someone else's experience. Do what you please with your car because it is your car.
If the standard of this forum was proven causality for any recommendations, or at least objectivity and not conjecture, we'd have no community.
The discussion is nonetheless useful... As long as people are accepting of the above fact. And civil with each other. And trying to disprove someone with equally unprovable information is a rabbit hole.
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It seems like oil dilution and slow engine warm-up could be related to each other.
Engines run rich until operating temperature is reached.
The slowest way to bring an engine to operating temperature is idling with no load.
If all this is true, the worst thing you could do for this vehicle is excessive warm up times and remote start use.
I still use remote start, but only start the vehicle as I am walking across the parking lot to the vehicle, or if it is covered in snow.
Engines run rich until operating temperature is reached.
The slowest way to bring an engine to operating temperature is idling with no load.
If all this is true, the worst thing you could do for this vehicle is excessive warm up times and remote start use.
I still use remote start, but only start the vehicle as I am walking across the parking lot to the vehicle, or if it is covered in snow.
amen...............................................................................................
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