Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,581 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This is an excellent article from the January 2007, Honda Service News. This publication is sent to Honda dealers/technicians. I put a few things in BOLD.

Save Yourself Time and Effort: Know Your Tire Pressure Indicators

NOTE: This article applies to ’07 CR-Vs, ’07
Elements, ’05–07 Pilots, ’05–07 Odysseys, and
’06–07 Ridgelines.
Do you know the difference between the low tire
pressure indicator and the TPMS indicator?

Service customers sometimes get these two mixed
up, so they might tell the service advisor “A light
came on in my dash, and I think it’s got something
to do with tire pressure.” If the RO doesn’t clearly
state which indicator is involved, knowing which
one it is could mean the difference between a
slam-dunk repair and a lot of wasted
troubleshooting time and effort.
Low Tire Pressure Indicator: This indicator (it’s
a tire cross-section with an exclamation point in
the middle) comes on when the tire pressure is
between 18 and 25 percent (depending on the
model and tire combination) below its
recommended value listed on the driver’s
doorjamb sticker. (On Odyssey Touring models,
there’s also a CHECK TIRE PRESSURE
message.) This value is always the recommended
cold inflation value.
Think of this indicator as the low fuel indicator for
the tires. If this is the indicator the RO says came
on, just check the tire pressure against its
recommended value and inflate it to the proper
pressure. It’s that simple. Remember, low tire
pressure isn’t a warranty item, so you’re not
getting paid for this. Of course, if you suspect a
leak, check the tire and repair it accordingly.
Always check tire pressures when the tires are
cold, and make sure you’re using an accurate tire
pressure gauge when you do. Accuracy can
sometimes be an issue with these gauges, so it’s a
good idea to calibrate your tire pressure gauge
often. Use the calibration tool (P/N 07AAJ-000A100)
we sent to your dealership back in August ’06. For
more info, check out the article “Test Tire Pressure
Gauges With New Calibration Tool” in the August
’06 issue of ServiceNews.
Something else to keep in mind: Colder weather
means lower tire pressures. A 10°F change in tire
temperature changes the tire pressure by about
1 psi. If the tire pressure was already below its
recommended value—even by only 20
percent—a big dip in temperature could cause
the indicator to come on.
Here’s a typical scenario to show just what we’re
talking about:
The tire temperature is warm from driving (90°F)
when the tire pressure is checked and set to its
recommended value. But it’s a winter day, and
your customer then parks the vehicle outside
where the outside temperature and the tire
temperature plummets to 10°F. This 80°F drop in
tire temperature causes a 8 psi drop in tire
pressure. If the tire pressure gauge is off by
+ 1 psi, now you’re dealing with a 9 psi change
in tire pressure. This causes the low tire pressure
indicator to come on and the TPMS control unit to
set a TPMS DTC. When the tire heats up from
driving, the tire pressure rises and the indicator
goes off. In cold weather, this could happen a lot.

TPMS Indicator: This indicator comes on and
stays on when there’s a definite problem with the
TPMS as a system. (On Odyssey Touring models,
it’s a CHECK TPMS SYSTEM message in the
MID.) The TPMS shuts off and stops monitoring
tire pressures. If this indicator or message is on,
use the HDS to check for set TPMS DTCs in the
TPMS control unit and troubleshoot accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,581 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
This is excellent info! Just released on the web is the November, 2007, Honda Service News and this article about the TPMS low tire pressure light. Remember, this is an article written for Honda service technicians.

11-07 Honda Service News

Inflating Tires for Low Tire Pressure Indication Is Not a Warranty Repair

Currently Applies To: Honda models with TPMS

Throughout this year, we’ve run a handful of articles
telling you about the low tire pressure indicator in
Honda vehicles with TPMS. And in each of those
articles, we’ve hammered home the point that this
indicator is like a “low fuel indicator” for the tires; its
sole purpose is to warn you that one or more of the
tires is low on air
. We’ve also stressed that any
repairs claimed for low tire pressure or normal tire
pressure loss is not covered by Honda warranty
unless the cause is traced to a manufacturer defect.
Yet we keep seeing warranty claims for inflating the
tires just to turn off that little indicator.
According to NHTSA regulations, the low tire
pressure indicator must come on when the tire
pressure is 25 percent below the listed
recommended cold inflation pressure. To guard
against tolerance variations, the low tire pressure
indicator in Honda vehicles with TPMS is set to come
on when the tire pressure drops to around
20 percent. All Honda O/Ms recommend that the tire
pressures be checked and set at least once per
month. And they should be checked cold, which
means that the vehicle has been sitting for at least
3 hours or driven for less than 1 mile.
All tires—even those in good condition—lose tire
pressure naturally for a number of reasons, but
mainly because they’re porous. It’s common to lose
up to 1.5 psi per month. Secondly, it’s a scientific
fact that tire pressure drops with a drop in
temperature. You can count on a loss of 1 psi for
every 10 degrees of temperature drop. Here’s what
can typically happen:
It’s August 1, and the outside temperature is a
balmy 80°F. The vehicle owner checks and sets
his or her tire pressures to 32 psi—just like
it says on the driver’s doorjamb sticker and in
the O/M. We fast forward to November 1, and
the outside temperature is now a nippy 50°F.
The owner checks the tire pressures, but now
they’re reading only 25 psi, and on top of that, the
low tire pressure indicator in the dashboard is on
and the TPMS control unit has set a low tire
pressure DTC.

It’s really the vehicle owner’s responsibility to check
and set the tire pressures; otherwise, that low tire
pressure indicator is going to be coming on. And in
cold weather . . . that could happen a lot. If you get a
vehicle in your shop because the low tire pressure
indicator is on or has been intermittently coming on,
before you start any sort of troubleshooting,
remember what that low tire pressure indicator is
telling you. It’s not saying there’s a problem with the
TPMS, so hold off on heavy troubleshooting.
To make things right, first check the tire pressures. If
they’re lower than the recommended cold inflation
pressures, fill the tires to their recommended
pressures. If the low tire pressure indicator stays on
after you’ve done that, drive the vehicle over 30 mph
for about 1 minute—the indicator should go out. If it
goes out, you’re done with this repair. If it stays on—
or you suspect there’s a leak—then it’s high time to
start troubleshooting. And although one or more of
the low tire pressure TPMS DTCs (11, 13, 15, or 17)
will have been set in the TPMS control unit, don’t
bother clearing them—they just stay in memory.
So here’s the bottom line: The low tire pressure
indicator is like a “low fuel indicator” for the tires.
Normal tire pressure loss is not covered by Honda
warranty, unless it’s traced to a manufacturer defect.
So that means adding air to the tires just to turn off
the indicator is not a warranty repair. Think of it as
just a maintenance thing—it’s really no different than
filling up the fuel tank when the low fuel indicator
comes on.


.
 

·
Everything in Moderation
Joined
·
8,024 Posts
This is excellent info! Just released on the web is the November, 2007, Honda Service News and this article about the TPMS low tire pressure light.

.
Thanks for the link Red. Interesting to learn that Honda sets their low pressure warning to come on at 20% less than factory recommended cold temperature.:eek:


For those of us that run higher than spec pressures, a Low Air warning would REALLY be an indicator of a leaky tire! :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
TPMS does not work

I live in Denver, CO. I set my tire pressure to 30 lbs as indicated on the door jam while the tires have not been driven and the outside temp is 50 degrees. The TPMS light comes on alerting to low tire pressure. I took my CRV to the dealer and their solution was to inflate to 34 lbs. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I'd put it a couple psi over the recommended tire pressure listed on the card.
It will not hurt performance, or hurt tire life. You'll gain minimal fuel mileage, with the addition that your low tire pressure light will stay off.
At the dealer, I always set vehicles equipped with a TPMS system to 34-36psi. Taking into consideration that the ambient air temperature will affect the tire pressure inside of the tire.
Remember to consider that a warm tire will show a higher tire pressure than one that sat over night in cold weather. Here in Minnesota, we have lots of problems with that issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
I live in Denver, CO. I set my tire pressure to 30 lbs as indicated on the door jam while the tires have not been driven and the outside temp is 50 degrees. The TPMS light comes on alerting to low tire pressure. I took my CRV to the dealer and their solution was to inflate to 34 lbs. :(
I wonder if for some reason the system might work based on absolute pressure, not relative or gauge pressure. Living at high altitude might cause the light to come on at a higher gauge pressure.

I've also ran into another issue. I've heard that it's possible for hte system to give an alert if the pressure difference between any 2 tires greater than 2-4 psi.

At high altitudes, your tires might also change pressure quicker and more unevenly, since 30psi gauge at 5000 feet results is less total air inside the tire than 30psi gauge pressure near sea level. I had thsi issue while towing a trailer in Colorado. The rear tires, with the load of the trailer were heating up more than the front tires. For better balance wit hthe laod, I had inflated the rear 1 psi higher. Well with the heat, as I came over a pass, there was a differnential of 3psi causign hte TPMS light to come on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
I'd put it a couple psi over the recommended tire pressure listed on the card.
It will not hurt performance, or hurt tire life. You'll gain minimal fuel mileage, with the addition that your low tire pressure light will stay off.
At the dealer, I always set vehicles equipped with a TPMS system to 34-36psi. Taking into consideration that the ambient air temperature will affect the tire pressure inside of the tire.
Remember to consider that a warm tire will show a higher tire pressure than one that sat over night in cold weather. Here in Minnesota, we have lots of problems with that issue.
I consider "cold" pressure to mean about 10F in winter and 50F in summer, and add 1 psi for every 10F that the ambient is above that when setting tire pressure. So in the winter if it's 40F outside, I'll inflate them to around 32psi. In summer, if it's 90F outside, I'll inflate them to 33psi.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Regardless, if your tire pressure is at 32psi cold/hot, the low tire pressure light should stay off. If you set the tire pressure to compensate for the drop or rise of the ambient air temp, you should be ok.
Now this only regards to the low tire pressure light. If you have a TPMS light on, that's a whole different issue.
Most TPMS lights I get are due to the fact that they were ID learned improperly. Either at PDI (pre-delivery inspection) or if a customer had a rim changed, etc. Most times you can just performe the TPMS sensor ID learn procedure and it should go away. Sometimes it may be a failed sensor, or an aftermarket sensor and so on.
Now if you set the tire pressure to high you can throw on the light too. Most times it's only due to someone filling/airing the tire at a gas station with no tire pressure gauge. "Eyeballing" the tire and assuming your tire is aired up. Yes it is, but incorrectly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Update Feb 20/10: Please ignore what I wrote below. I was completely wrong about how the TPMS "learning" works. The TPMS sensors are factory-set to the desired temp ('07 CR-V = 30psi). Each sensor comes with a unique ID so the computer knows the four sensors that belong to this car. The learning is to get the TPMS system in the computer to learn the IDs of the four sensors on the car.

It turns out that the problem I encountered was a bad sensor. So the TPMS system was upset because after it was reset it could only find three sensors.

I apologize for the errors below.

...ken...

---------------------------------------

I'm with Turboimports about the TPMS being taught an improper temperature. Although I've had the occasional low pressure warning light on those really really cold winter days that will cause a poorly sealed tire to get a little low, I've never had the TPMS light come on until recently. I've had it happen twice in the past three weeks.

I had new tires installed three weeks ago. When the TPMS came on I checked the tires and they were all low ... about 24 psi all the way around. This time of year the ambient temp averages around 30-35°C colder outside than in the dealer's shop. They must not have bothered to adjust the warm inflation pressure to accomodate the fact that the car was immediately going outside into the winter cold.

So I bumped the cold pressures up to 30 psi where they should be and went to the dealer's to get the TPMS reset. When I went in to get it reset, they had me bring the vehicle inside and promised to get to it in "just a couple minutes". They didn't. It was nearly 45 minutes before they got around to it.

No surprise that the TPMS came back on after I had been outside long enough for the tire pressures to drop back to the outside cold.

The proper procedure when they installed the new tires should have been to set the tire pressures to 30 psi, teach the TPMS that pressure, then over-inflate the tires enough to allow for the immediate drop in temperature when the vehicle went back outside. They didn't do that.

The second time, they should have either taught the TPMS immediately that I brought the vehicle inside, before the tires had a chance to warm up, or left the vehicle outside until they were ready to do it. Or, better still, teach the TPMS while the vehicle was still outside at the ambient temp.

...ken...
 

·
Everything in Moderation
Joined
·
8,024 Posts
I like the old-fashioned method of tire pressure checking....


When the rim scrapes the ground it's time to add air!

< ducks >
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
423 Posts
I've seen lots of low tires when following a car but the tire looks OK when viewed from the side. I would guess that most people glance at their tires, don't see them flat to the ground, and assume they are OK. Only when viewed from the back do you notice that you only have about 10lbs of air or so.

I think TPMS systems are a good thing. When working properly, they give valuable information to drivers. Much like the oil pressure light or charging system light.

That said, there are some downsides to the current technology. It will get better in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I've reset, peformed ID learn on quite a few factory TPMS systems at work. The return rate is next to none. Unless like stated by someone, if the tires don't seal properly (leaking bead, hole in tire, leaking valve stem, etc.).
Most problems occur within 5-10k miles after PDI or delivery. If the TPMS system was wrongly initiated, than most likely it will come back for a TPMS light.
The TPMS system is good for those who don't set their tire pressure or check it often. It's a great reminder. Also great for people who are always on the go that don't get a chance to pay attention.
Me on the other hand, check my tire pressure quite often. I'm very paranoid about my tires going flat. I usually always set my tire pressues to 35-40psi. Usually 40psi on winter and 35psi in summer.
More tire pressure equals less rotational resistance from the tires.
Lots of Hybrids run with high tire pressures. It adds to their gas mileage.
Less resistance means better gas mileage.
Keeping in mind that less resistance usually means less tire to road contact surface. That equals less traction in most cases.
Big difference between a Hybrid vehicle running high tires pressures to gain maximum gas mileage vs a drag racing vehicle running very low tires pressures to gain maximum traction. Gas mileage doesn't matter to a drag racing vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
TPMS vs low tire pressure

Update. "Ken in Regina" was right on target. I took my CR-V back into the dealer and complained again about the TPMS and NOT THE LOW PRESSURE LIGHT. They kept it for about 2 hours but ended up replacing all 4 tire pressure sensors. Since then I have had it out on the highway twice and no TPMS indications. Thanks Ken

Interesting in seeing the comments here but is the TPMS capable of storing what the problem is? Since I have driven my CR-V off the show room floor it has had the problem when driven on the highway that it will turn on the TPMS light and then sometime later either while driving or after we have stopped the light goes out. The dealer has told me that one of the tires was low....but I have checked the tires and made sure they were all at 30 PSI prior to starting trips. I will say that I have had occations where the low tire pressure warning would come on but it is real.....like 17 below zero and the tires do tend to have low pressure then!

So has anyone else experienced this. I have had the car in the garage 5 times for this problem and they cannot find anything!

___________________________

2007 CR-V EX-L
2001 Accord Coupe EX-L V6
2007 GMC Sierra Ext Cab SLT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Rich, it sounds like one or more of your TPMS sensors is flakey.

If you have a low tire, the tire pressure warning light is supposed to come on, NOT the TPMS light.

I've had this "discussion" with one of my dealer's service advisors and it took intervention by the service manager to persuade her that there are TWO warning lights: one to indicate low tire pressure and the other to indicate that the TPMS system itself is in distress.

Based on my experience above that resulted in replacement of one of the sensors (and the fact that at that point I didn't have a clue about exactly how the TPMS works :eek: ), I think it's safe to push your dealer to find and replace the bad sensor. If it's only happening at highway speeds, the obvious guess would be that it's directly related to that. E.g. perhaps the increased centrifugal force at speed is causing it to stop sending or only send intermittently.

Bottom line, if the TPMS light is on the TPMS system is telling you it does not trust itself. That is almost exclusively because of sensor problems.

There should be errors in the TPMS's log that your dealer's service people can check. When I had the problem above they did not check the TPMS the first time I was in with the problem. They just re-"learned" the TPMS about the sensor IDs and sent me on my way (they just assumed this step had been missed when they installed my new tires). When I came in the second time with the same problem they checked the TPMS. It told them the ID of which sensor it wasn't happy with. That is, they saw error codes for one particular sensor. They replaced that sensor and no further problems.

Just tell them that you want them to stop pushing the BS about tire pressure because you are intelligent enough to know the difference between the low tire pressure warning indicator and the TPMS warning light. :D

...ken...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Disaster

I think these are the most foolish things ever. If you are not responsible enough to glance at you car before firing it up and heading out, you shouldn't be driving.
This is just another designed in failure mode that will be costly. Have you heard from your friends that have already owned cars with these things?? $200 Valve stems is not what I call fun.
Mandated Tire pressure indicator... Paleeeeeze.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
They actually work quite well. They've found several slow leaks in my cars that I would not likely have noticed visually. Do you do a complete walk around every time you get in your car?

I've now owned 4 vehicles with TPMS sensors and I've not had one problem with them. I've detected 4 slow leaks. Any one of those could have created a dangerous handling in an emergency maneuver or at freeway speeds.

I've nearly crashed 1 motorcycle due to a flat tire that I didn't notice while stuck in traffic. When traffic started moving again, I got a huge surprise. My current motorcycle displays the pressure at each wheel and corrects for ambient temperature.

Ultimately it's a good safety system, but it needs some refinement. Not as big of a safety enhancement as ABS, Stability control or air bags, but still a good safety enhancement. Probably almost as good as those radar systems that automatically apply the brakes when as impending crash is detected and those that detect vehicles in you blind spot.

Humans just don;t like change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Great innovative technology that's almost idiot proof but certainly designed to drain my pocket when service is needed OR not needed. Replacement TPMS sensors are not inexpensive and require a shop to replace = $$. Upgrading my Tundra steel rims to aluminum requires new TPMS:eek: $90 x 4 in addition to rims and wheels. I check my air pressure regularly and keep an air pump and tire kit in the trunk. Thankfully my local DMV totally ignored the TPMS light during tag renewal and focused on lack of CEL or emission codes. My low pressure warning light occasionally flickers intermittently annoyingly with proper tire inflation thus IMO it's just another expensive technology that needs maintenance or removal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
They actually work quite well. They've found several slow leaks in my cars that I would not likely have noticed visually. Do you do a complete walk around every time you get in your car?

I've now owned 4 vehicles with TPMS sensors and I've not had one problem with them. I've detected 4 slow leaks. Any one of those could have created a dangerous handling in an emergency maneuver or at freeway speeds.

I've nearly crashed 1 motorcycle due to a flat tire that I didn't notice while stuck in traffic. When traffic started moving again, I got a huge surprise. My current motorcycle displays the pressure at each wheel and corrects for ambient temperature.

Ultimately it's a good safety system, but it needs some refinement. Not as big of a safety enhancement as ABS, Stability control or air bags, but still a good safety enhancement. Probably almost as good as those radar systems that automatically apply the brakes when as impending crash is detected and those that detect vehicles in you blind spot.

Humans just don;t like change.
I absolutely look at my vehicle as I approach it to notice any number of possible issues. Just washing teh car once a week helps notice problems before they happen. Low Tire Pressure, Extra dusty Rims that show a possible frozen Caliper, A loose piece of trim that might have caught the wind and fallen off. So the answer is yes, I am very conscieous of whats happening with my cars. By Doing things yourself you tend to find issues before they become problems. No need to have an expensive thing tell me my tires are low. That's what the One time price of a $5 tire gauge is for.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top