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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello, everyone. We are coming to the end of Odyssey ownership: 2002 LX owned since new, 261,000 miles. We had hoped to take it to 300,000 miles, but icy New England roads had other ideas. $2400 worth of body damage after hitting a guard rail. Not worth keeping it on the road. So......

We thought we'd get a CR-V this time around....and are leaning toward an EX or EX-L hybrid which should be out in a couple of months. We've thought about buying late model, low miles used (non-hybrid, of course), but it just doesn't seem as if we'd save enough money to make it worth our while....which is the same thing we found buying the Odyssey 18 years ago.

So I thought I'd toss out a few questions while I'm on my CR-V learning curve.

1. Any reason to be apprehensive about the first year of the CR-V hybrid? I would think not since it's the same power train as the Accord. But I'm curious what others think.

2. I'd like to get a really good, Honda specific scanner (i.e. not just OBD2 codes but all the Honda specific codes). I'm thinking the Foxwell NT510 ought to do the trick but am curious what others might recommend.

3. We haven't bought a new car in 18 years (spent most of the time accumulating, working on, and selling older Mercedes diesels, of which I now own three). I'm assuming that, when the CR-V hybrid comes out, the pricing will be consistent across various dealerships and that there won't be much room for negotiating. Is that likely the case? Like anyone else, we want the best deal possible. Happy to pay cash or finance if there's good below-market rate.

4. Anything by way of concerns and/or quirks about the 2020 CR-V?

Thanks in advance for your input.
 

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1. The hybrid is avail overseas for a year or so and no major issues yet.
Should be good

2. thered a few obd reader posts on here search forum for pros and cons

3 Good luck getting a good deal on a hybrid at launch, dealers will be gouging prices due to scarcity & pent up demand.

4. Only issue the online whiners have so far for the 2020 non hybrid is the start and stop technology other than that its basically the same minus some styling cues and a few interior changes

good luck
 

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I believe most bugs have been worked out for the 2020 CRV model, love mine (touring model). There have been some small tweaks for 2020, including the addition of a larger battery. Even with start stop, fuel economy is not quite as good as for the 2019 and earlier models, I believe Honda has done something (good) with the engine controls that affects economy but man it heats up quickly and maintains cabin heat which seems to be a problem for some. Start stop is a small annoyance but definately not a deal breaker, you can turn it off everytime you start the car. I would be hesitant about a hybrid CRV in their first North American model year. They have been in Europe but if I was buying a hybrid SUV, would seriously look at the RAV4.
Consider the cost benefit for a hybrid, how long you keep the car, payback time for the fuel economy benefit, do you drive mostly in city where the hybrid will shine and also expect a delay for delivery and minimal discount for the hybrid due to demand. I did drive a RAV4 hybrid and loved the drive. Hated the shifting and engine revs in the non hybrid Rav4.
What steered me away was the need to pretty much take the hybrid vehicle to the dealer for most maintenance; if you prefer a local mechanic, they would have issues diagnosing any hybrid issues. There is a lot going on in a hybrid vehicle!
 

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1. The hybrid is avail overseas for a year or so and no major issues yet.
Should be good

2. thered a few obd reader posts on here search forum for pros and cons

3 Good luck getting a good deal on a hybrid at launch, dealers will be gouging prices due to scarcity & pent up demand.

4. Only issue the online whiners have so far for the 2020 non hybrid is the start and stop technology other than that its basically the same minus some styling cues and a few interior changes

good luck
Agree on 1, 2, and 4. I have a feeling you will be able to find dealers that will sell at MSRP. You can always try joining Costco and using their car buying service. I remember buying my 2015 that the Touring was in such demand that trim level didn't get any discounting from Costco, while the EX-L and below did. I ended up with the EX-L for that reason (the effective price gap was about $5k). If a dealer asks for a deposit before a test drive (yes, one did that back in 2000 with the new Odyssey minivan), walk away.
 

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I have tried most hybrids over the last couple of years including the toyota range
I haven't tried the Rav 4 because in the UK the top spec model hasn't got height adjustment on the passenger seat
The toyota range uk spec only comes with a black headline
The Honda CRV is a totally different Hybrid system to any other manufactures
I only drove one for a hour before ordering one
it has less tyre noise than anyof the other ones I drove and some of the road surfaces in the UK are in a dreadful state
 

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Fuel economy on the 1.5T is really impressive. And I suspect you'd get a far better financial deal on a gasoline/petrol CR-V than on a Hybrid, where dealers will refuse to budge on price because supply is low and the car is new.

I would also ask, do you actually "need" a Hybrid in the first place?

Are you seeking better gas mileage? Are you seeking lower taxable benefits from a hybrid? Are you seeking to do your bit for the environment etc?

I couldnt justify the higher sticker price of the CR-V Hybrid, nor did it fit in with my stop-start driving lifestyle where I make a mix of short and long trips. I would never get the alleged fuel efficiency out of it.

I can get 30-40mpg for fun around town in my 1.5T CR-V, and up to 50mpg on the motorway/freeway. Of course, only you can answer whether you "need" a Hybrid...
 
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1. I really like Honda's hybrid system. Same basic system as the Accord Hybrid since 2018, except only AWD versions of the CRV Hybrid are available for the U.S. launch. Makes sense because 70% of U.S. CRV's are AWD.

Eventually we'll probably get the FWD version -- Europe already has 'em -- but maybe not until next year.

2. Up to about 45 mph, the CRV Hybrid is propelled solely by an electric motor (181hp ?). Very smooth & responsive, great torque at low rpm. Just like a pure EV, except hybrids also have a gas engine that drives a generator to produce electricity for the system, as needed.

3. Because the rpm's of the gas engine aren't tied to vehicle speed (below ~45 mph), some folks mistakenly think there's a CVT transmission. There isn't a CVT; and in fact, there's no multi-gear transmission at all.

4. The Honda Hybrid gas engine has a direct drive, like a 1-speed transmission. That is, above about 45 mph, a clutch can connect the gas engine thru a single fixed ratio to propel the CRV.

My point is, the Honda Hybrid system is simpler than Toyota's, so has the potential for excellent long-term durability.

5. I expect a big improvement in city mpg (maybe 42 mpg?). Honda claims up to 50% better city mpg than the non-hybrid. But if most of your driving is high-speed highway, I doubt you'll see much improvement over the non-hybrid CRV (EPA rated at 34 mpg highway).

6. The CRV Hybrid should be quicker than the non-hybrid, just like the Accord Hybrid is quicker than the non-hybrid (see video below starting at 11:35). Probably about 1 second quicker to 60 mph; not a rocket, but I expect it'll feel noticeably quicker than the non-hybrid CRV, especially at low speeds.

7. Something that's rarely discussed: Brake modulation and jerky low-speed braking.

Because of the way some hybrid systems transition from regenerative braking to friction-braking-only, brake feel can be inconsistent. The result is, the brakes can be difficult to modulate and stops are jerky like-a-rookie-driver.

OTOH, I expect brake modulation in the CRV Hybrid will be the same as the Accord Hybrid: Smooth, consistent feel, and easily modulated. Just like the non-hybrid. Not sure I fully understand why; it's explained briefly in the video below, starting at 16:50.


Bottom Line: I expect early reports (and official pricing) will be very favorable for the CRV Hybrid. But then, demand might be so great that I'd have to wait 6 months to get a base CRV Hybrid at MSRP. Not sure I'm willing to wait that long for a 2020.
 

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The brakes on the one I drove were just like a normal car
I quickly adjusted to the Jerky brakes on the toyota and was able to brake smoothly but it takes practice
 

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5. I expect a big improvement in city mpg (maybe 42 mpg?). Honda claims up to 50% better city mpg than the non-hybrid. But if most of your driving is high-speed highway, I doubt you'll see much improvement over the non-hybrid CRV (EPA rated at 34 mpg highway).
From my own extended test drive experience, the "city" MPG on the Hybrid was no better than the 1.5T, which I was quite surprised about since the Hybrid is at least 100kg lighter in weight (spec/trim dependant).

It was marginally better on the motorway, but then traffic was light and pretty swift moving and I got 55mpg if I recall correctly.

6. The CRV Hybrid should be quicker than the non-hybrid, just like the Accord Hybrid is quicker than the non-hybrid (see video below starting at 11:35). Probably about 1 second quicker to 60 mph; not a rocket, but I expect it'll feel noticeably quicker than the non-hybrid CRV, especially at low speeds.
The Hybrid definitely moves from standstill faster than the 1.5T, but thats the only story it tells. After that, its nothing to write home about. With the pseudo-gears in the 1.5T CVT, you can "drop" a gear and get some serious torque and pulling power once youre away - something you simply cannot do in the Hybrid and for that reason, it feels somewhat "choked" and lethargic. But as we know, the Hybrid is not built for performance, or even economy, its just a different powertrain and transmission - the lack of turbo in it is noticeable.

It doesnt aim to displace or replace the fuel economy found in the 1.6 i-DTEC or 2.2 i-DTEC diesel engines.

A hybrid, for all intents and purposes, is a way to cut emissions through more than one propulsive avenue. Thats why for me, I found the CR-V Hybrid to be nothing but overpriced hubris. I said the same of the Lexus NX that I was considering too - but that car was significantly smaller and cramped than the CR-V and also suffers, in the UK at least, woeful residuals and depreciation.

I didnt even consider the RAV4 because the interior is truly f-ing cheap, nasty and hideous - and thats where the driver spends the most time. No thank you Toyota....you can stick to being BMW's "bit on the side"....
 

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Did you try the hybrid in sport mode?
it comes alive
Most certainly did :)

And then you lose fuel economy and is actually worse than the 1.5T.

That was another reason why I felt the 1.5T was a better solution for my needs. When i put the power down in the 1,5T, I am not trading that power for fuel economy - I'm no better or worse off. But in the Hybrid and in Sport mode, the effect on fuel is significant.

(And then theres the other matter of the spare wheel too!)

Having said that, the Hybrid will be a far better machine than the crappy RAV4 in every way. Better build quality, better ride, better sound proofing, better value for money. Just better all round!
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Yes, I do wonder whether we can justify the higher price of the hybrid. FYI we are currently seeing about $3500 knocked off MSRP for the 2019s, so that's something we want to look at. FYI we will put about 12,000 miles a year on it, mixed city/highway, and would anticipate keeping it a solid 15 years. So once we see fuel economy estimates and price, we'll have some sense how far out the break even point is. I wouldn't buy a hybrid solely for the sake of being green...but if the economics are even close over the long haul, I'm happy to go that route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
One thing I'm confused by....if above 45 mph the hybrid is really no better than the non-hybrid, why do the EPA figures so otherwise? For example, for the Accord it is 48 city, 47 highway.
 

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I am not buying it because I want to be green I would buy another Diesel I just wanted a hybrid (why I do not know)
My Ford Kuga your escape has been a great car but it is now 7 years old and I just fancied a change
 

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One thing I'm confused by....if above 45 mph the hybrid is really no better than the non-hybrid, why do the EPA figures so otherwise? For example, for the Accord it is 48 city, 47 highway.
As I mentioned upthread, hybrids are not built for efficiency.

They use multpile propulsion units to lower emissions.

Lowering emissions is the primary function of a hybrid and is why I couldnt reconcile the price differential over the standard petrol 1.5T.

In top spec guise (EX trim) in the UK, the CR-V Hybrid starts 拢38,200 (MSRP).

The same petrol 1.5T in EX trim is 拢34,780 (manual). CVT is 拢36,780.

But there are better discounts to be had on the 1.5T versus the Hybrid. And the Hybrid has been in the UK about a year now. Lower spec Hybrid's are losing value sharply, while the top trims seem to be holding up better. To me, its just too much money just to save on emissions because some tree-molester is worried about the environment.

Perhaps when China chokes its own pollutant output, I'll start to give a damn, but until then, the environment isnt my concern and the higher sticker price of the Hybrid was something I could not reconcile for my needs.
 

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Some good posts here detailing why any advantages of owing a hybrid over a petrol version may essentially be smoke and mirrors so here's my input.

I purchased the hybrid over the petrol because during my test drives I preferred the driving experience of the hybrid. I felt it was quieter, more responsive and was the better of the two machines.

In my experience the hybrid glides around town effortlessly and at speed it's suitably impressive. If I need more poke for rapid acceleration I can select sport, I can then deselect it when I don't need it which for me is 99% of the time therefore fuel economy is rarely compromised. I drive my car in standard mode which suits my needs so I rarely have selected sport and have never selected economy.

If price differentials remain similar to U.K. and cost drives your decision on what you will buy, even when offset against economy gains then the 1.5T will be the car for you. If like me you feel that the driving experience drives your decision then the hybrids for you and after seven months of ownership I'm very happy that's the model I chose.
 

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I went for the more expensive EX as this will be my last new car and I wanted all the standard extras
Just a shame that the EX Hybrid doesnt have the same wheels as mine......
 
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