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I have seen places that sell tires push Nitrogen in tires for better gas mileage and better ride. Seems like bull to me. Has anyone actually tried this?
 

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nitrogen is supposed to be more stable in tires....so temp fluctuations don't affect tire pressure as much.......nothing to do with MPG improvements.
 

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Actually if they can get 95% Nitrogen for comparison (more realistic since 100% is not practical; not all the gas is eliminated when you mount a new tire) and the remainder of the gases in air being less stable all leak out (air which is 80% Nitrogen, 20% other gases), then your air pressure only drops about 1/3 as much with 95% Nitrogen as it will when using conventional compressed air. Assuming Nitrogen does not leak out at all which may not be that realistic.

Nitrogen saves gas for those that do not frequently check tires by greatly reducing the air pressure drop with time.

More importantly for those that do not drive much (such as me) is the fact that Nitrogen does not react or oxidize the rubber inside the tire. So the rubber last longer inside while the outside degrades the same as usual. Note that oxygen is an oxidizer that corrodes and degrades most materials.

I believe the ride is different too with Nitrogen. How I cannot remember.

So it is not all BS! It may be dramatized a bit...:) Surely not worth the $30 reportedly a dealer charges for Nitrogen in the tires.

BTW one way of getting higher concentrations of Nitrogen (N) is to put compressed air into a bladder lined tank that is impervious to N. Then wait and let all the remaining gasses leak out. No kidding. That is what a manufacturer of N supplies does to get N. Using the correct bladder material is the key. So the only cost to get nitrogen is the power to compress the air, time and the equipment required which is currently very expensive.

Eventually there will be a cheap DIY Nitrogen kit for home use...

-Rg
 

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More importantly for those that do not drive much (such as me) is the fact that Nitrogen does not react or oxidize the rubber inside the tire. So the rubber last longer inside while the outside degrades the same as usual.
Funny, I've been looking at the insides of tires for 30 years, and while the outer rubber may be severely weather-checked (usually described as "dry-rotted") I've yet to see an example of 'oxidized' rubber on the inside. :rolleyes:

If there was any merit to using Nitrogen in a passenger vehicle tire, it would really be due to the Nirogen being 'dry' vs the moisture content of compressed ambient air.

The dealership I am currently working at has a Nitrogen generator for filling tires (it airs the tires down and "fills" them with Nitrogen in a repetative deflate / inflate procedure that takes 10 - 15 minutes to complete). When I asked what proofs are available that the machine is working correctly and that the tires are actually being filled with a significant percentage of Nitrogen, I was laughed at, and told "none".

Honda has produced literature condemning the process as wasteful of customer's money.
 

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I think it was in Con. Repts a few years ago. That source recognized it as a scam. The "advantage" it provides, and allows claims of superior gas mileage to be made legally, are that it leaks out slower and therefore maintains correct tire pressure longer. Ditto for claims of longer tire life for the same reason.

Do you have a tire pressure gauge and know how to use it? Do so, and you'll have 99.9% of the value of nitrogen inflation with .1% of the cost.

Just like those stupid and needlessly expensive tire pressure monitor systems. Great for the Grand Marquis set whose cars may sit for a month until the next Dr. appt or bingo game, but a huge waste of money and potential source of trouble for most of us. Oh yeah, the run flat tire boys need them, too, to know when their Corvette tires have a puncture.
 

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Lets stop being so selfish and stop belly aching

Everyone does not know how to use a tire pressure gauge. Nor do they ever think about tires until the car drives funny with a flat from overheating a tire due to a puncture. Then they freak out and call their fathers and husbands who cannot do anything because they are 100 miles away. Except maybe console them. :confused: And to make sure they do not let them damage the car when the auto road service gorilla shows up in an hour or so with a impact wrench set to 440fl/lbs and a floor jack that damages the rocker panel lip. Or even mangles it all up. Now this is not made up as it has actually happened to me. I cannot possibly be the only one.

I have tried at least a dozen times to teach my wife how to use the compressor and gauge. She seems to forget from one day to the other. Yet she never forgets a recipe or a party date. :)

Yes us tech savvy CRVOCers do not have much use for tire pressure monitoring devices. We enjoy our weekly or monthly rituals, bonding with our gauges and air compressors making the car surely fell better :rolleyes:

But it just might save the life of those whose brains are not geared like ours are. In addition to definitely saving some gas when the tires go below 24 PSI approx. Should they pay attention to the warnings. If they are the type that does not pay attention to idiot lights then run flat tires are the solution.

So we should stop being so selfish and stop complaining and belly aching. While I have heard of problems neither my daughter's Corolla nor our CR-V has given a lick of problems with the TPMS. Other than maybe indicating that the tires were low! In reality it did warn us once when we first had the CRV and the tires apparently went below the 24 PSI threshold. I found it rather reassuring. Perhaps a lot of the problems stem from not being familiar and techs not having the proper knowhow or equipment. Or tight wallets filled with cobwebs. :)

So let’s be glad that there is a system for our wife’s and daughters and sons not geared like us and stop belly aching. It to me so far does not seem like much a sacrifice. Yes it cost a few dollars but so do airbags. I do not think any of you are going to still argue that the smart airbag technology does not currently save lives.

I was wandering too about the claims I read on oxygen oxidizing the rubber which is fairly inert even to acids. Can't get anything past you smart cookies. But rubber is not resistant to ozone (O3 I believe). Not sure how O3 would show up in tires unless sucked in at the compressor intake...But O2 will definitely corrode the rims and alloy wheels. Compounded by moisture condensing in the tire. I do not think any CRVOCers will argue that point either. Surely you must have had problems with leaking tire beads at one time or another. Except maybe in Southern California or the desserts where it never rains or snows or anywhere else there is no moisture to sustain life...only fire! :confused:

Yes the Nitrogen claims are somewhat embellished. By the same token I can remember hearing lots of complains about airbags costing too much. Maybe the complaints have been toned down when airbags have saved the lives of the very same persons complaining.

Gee, I hope I have not opened up a can of worms with complaints about air bags. It is terrible that some small toddlers were injured and even killed before smart airbags and the 'do not use the front seats for children' rule. We need to give air pressure monitoring device technology a chance to mature and get perfected. Same probably goes for Nitrogen. It will get cheaper and better. For the mean time maybe we should just byte our lips...

-Rg
 

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I am a firm believer that running N2 in a tire is just a waste of money. First, if just the other gasses leaked out then one should be to close to all N2 in a short amount of time (you would be replacing the O2 with 80% N2). Far more "air" leaks from nail punctures, rim leaks and valve stem leaks, none of which will not stop the N2 from leaking. N2 has no know stop leak properties. As far as tire rubber break down, tires rot from the outside in from the UV light given off from the sun. There is no excuse for not checking the tire pressure in your tires, yet as stated, many never check, hence TPMS systems have been mandated by our government. Russ
 

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Radar, how does a post about Nitrogen filled tires turn into a rant about TPMS systems and Air Bags?

The OP wants to know if the Nitrogen fill in his passenger tires has merit, or if it's just another form of snake oil.

Honda's position (in print in the Service News) is that it is unneccessary and a waste of customer's money.

Personally, I have very seldom checked air pressures on a "Nitrogen Filled" vehicle and not found lower pressures than specified. They get topped off with regular old air.
 

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Might make a difference in racing, but for the rest of us it's a waste of money, but harmless to anything but your wallet. When I was a mechanic on jet fighters in the '80s we began substituting Nitrogen for "air" in some pneumatic/pneudraulic systems because it was drier and helped prevent corrosion, but we continued to use good ol' "air" in the tires.
 

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if a shop tries to sell you nitrogen air, then walk away.
they're free at every costco in my area when you buy tires from them and they install the tires. GM dealers in my area advertises that their cars now "ride on nitrogen".
 

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Nitrogen is only practical in racing conditions, mainly to hold more consistent tire pressures thru the temperature range.

There is no MPG benefit at all. In fact, you could be getting LESS MPG. How? Because with Nitrogen your tire pressure won’t rise as it would with “air”, when the tire warms up while driving, and levels out (about 2-3psi) above the PSI you set when the tire was "cold".

And this is where IMO, the “better ride” people get their feel. Its due to the tire not getting as hard from the rise in pressure going from “cold” to normal driving conditions.
 

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Radar, how does a post about Nitrogen filled tires turn into a rant about TPMS systems and Air Bags? The OP wants to know if the Nitrogen fill in his passenger tires has merit, or if it's just another form of snake oil. Honda's position (in print in the Service News) is that it is unnecessary and a waste of customer's money. Personally, I have very seldom checked air pressures on a "Nitrogen Filled" vehicle and not found lower pressures than specified. They get topped off with regular old air.
Honda Tech,
I was wondering that myself. I will point out that I am not the one that started with the TPMS. But it is relevant as both TPMS and Nitrogen claim to reduce tire wear. So are they redundant? HUM!

The Air bags have nothing to do with Nitrogen unless you get in an accident! It was just an example of how we resist changes when benefits are not readily seen especially if it hits our wallets. TPMS is now in the same state that airbags were in the early days back in the early '80s (?) So I would say it is relevant. My point was that if we bear with it eventually the cost will come way down and they will be more reliable. Practically seamless I would guess in time. Perhaps a compressor would fill the tires up as they get low. Maybe? Then why do we need Nitrogen?

Topping up with regular moisture laden air might reduce the benefits of 95% Nitrogen; or will it? Regular air can be a problem where the dew points are in the upper 70’s as well as the air temperature. Or in other words 100% humidity at high temps can introduce substantial amounts of HOH in your tires if the air drying capacity of the equipment is overwhelmed. I for one only have a very rudimentary cooler on my compressor. Most do not have any at all other than a short tube at the compressor output and the length of the hose! Perhaps the theory of the benefits (or scam depending on the point of view) is that topping off will be less often and is a minute fraction of the total air in the tire. You do not need 10% of the air volume on a tire that is low 2.5 lbs and is supposed to be at 25 PSI do you? If so then only a small percentage of 95% nitrogen air will be replaced with atmospheric air and not 10% of the air. My brain is too fried at the moment from designing a part for disk brakes on my wheel chair to be thinking about Boyle’s Law. A caliper adaptor to be more descriptive. More on Boyle’s Law of Pressure/Volume Relationships of gases:

http://www.westminster.edu/acad/sim/documents/SBoyleslaw.COMP.pdf

The problem might be that we just do not want to pay for something that is all around us and is free. Doing so gets under our skin! We need to get over it and realize that the Nitrogen producing equipment is not free. It is rather expensive at this point in time. Assuming that the benefits are even real and substantial.

BTW Costco started using Nitrogen and the fee they add to each tire for warranty ...and nitrogen only went up a couple of dollars in the last 10 years. So it does not necessarily have to be that expensive. You can top off for free I think at Costco!

As far a some having the opinion that Nitrogen is just a scan, it is just an opinion and we know what opinions are like, blah blah blah...Everybody has one.

Now why would Honda not jump on the Nitrogen bandwagon? I can think of a couple of reasons. For one thing they need to sell the TPMS which the public is not taking too that well. With TPMS one advantage of the Nitrogen is redundant. Then there definitely might be a point to not paying for expensive Nitrogen fill ups of the tires ($30). I would not pay that!

Or is Honda position that Nitrogen has no advantages at all? That is much different from “not necessary”.

On that note modern paint technology results in a film resistant to most attacks nature can dish out. Waxing is not necessary for survival of the paint film. Nor will a sub mil thick layer of wax make much of a difference. Yet there are those that spend lots of time and money waxing their beloved vehicles when all that is necessary is occasional washing of the painted surfaces. Wax might make future washing easier but that is about it. In reality that thin of a wax film offers no protection if you step away from your attachment and look critically at the physics behind smoke and mirror wax claims. It is mostly all hype! Yet most new car owners still do it. Or at a minimum consider doing it. Not me in any event, I stopped a few years ago. I did buy detailing wax the other day but the way things are going it will be winter before I get to do my '08 CR-V :(

I just can see it now…another can of waxed worms that I just opened up! :confused: Wax ON, Wax Off or have a beer or two? HUM! ;)

-Rg
 

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Nitrogen is only practical in racing conditions, mainly to hold more consistent tire pressures thru the temperature range.

There is no MPG benefit at all. In fact, you could be getting LESS MPG. How? Because with Nitrogen your tire pressure won’t rise as it would with “air”, when the tire warms up while driving, and levels out (about 2-3psi) above the PSI you set when the tire was "cold".

And this is where IMO, the “better ride” people get their feel. Its due to the tire not getting as hard from the rise in pressure going from “cold” to normal driving conditions.
An constant tire pressures would not benefit our CR-Vs? Allowing more fine tuning of the suspensions? Too bad Honda has not taken to Nitrogen.

On your second idea of getting less MPG I would have to give that a flimsy thumbs down. Low tire pressures reduces MPG much more so than high tire pressures increases MPG was the opinion taken by an authority. I forget the rational but it made sense at the time. Yes I know some swear by 60 PSI... What can I say.

On the ride quality aspect it is very subjective but after getting new tires at Costco (who uses Nitrogen) the vehicle seems to ride way better even after replacing with the same identical tire manufacturer, model and size. Like I said it is very subjective but that was my opinion without even knowing about the Nitrogen. For the longest time I could not figure out why.

-Rg
 

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An constant tire pressures would not benefit our CR-Vs? Allowing more fine tuning of the suspensions? Too bad Honda has not taken to Nitrogen.

On your second idea of getting less MPG I would have to give that a flimsy thumbs down. Low tire pressures reduces MPG much more so than high tire pressures increases MPG was the opinion taken by an authority. I forget the rational but it made sense at the time. Yes I know some swear by 60 PSI... What can I say.

On the ride quality aspect it is very subjective but after getting new tires at Costco (who uses Nitrogen) the vehicle seems to ride way better even after replacing with the same identical tire manufacturer, model and size. Like I said it is very subjective but that was my opinion without even knowing about the Nitrogen. For the longest time I could not figure out why.

-Rg
Fine tune suspension on a CR-V? Riiight...

For every PSI up or down = the same % of gain or loss of rolling resistance.

Of course new tires will ride better than old. Nitrogen had no impact, sorry.
 

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Fine tune suspension on a CR-V? Riiight...

For every PSI up or down = the same % of gain or loss of rolling resistance.

Of course new tires will ride better than old. Nitrogen had no impact, sorry.
On fine tuning, whatever. If you mean it cannot be improved...then it can't? :confused: Wouldn't a more constant tire pressure allow better selection and design of springs etc? It might be more touchy out of that pressure range...

Au contraire. The effect of increasing PSI bottoms out 'exponentially' after you reach a certain level. No further gains in MPG are made. The ultimate effect of decreasing is an unsafe tire. You base your statement on what? Science or seat of the pants? :)

Why would the same identical tire ride differently at 0 miles or 40k miles? The only difference is maybe 6-8/32" on the thread due to wear. Unless you buy junk and the cords are shifting and falling apart or have bubbles from ply separation....then I could see a big difference. Michelins do not as a rule. I have only had one tire develop a bubble in almost 40 years. That was probably from a poor repair allowing air between plies.

-Rg
 

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I didn't have a choice....it was a $60 "dealer installed option" when I took delivery of the vehicle. GRRRRR! I feel violated. :)

I'm surprised Honda puts out something in writing about add-ons that are a waste of money. You should have seen the list of junk my dealer was trying to sell me after we closed the deal.
 

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I didn't have a choice....it was a $60 "dealer installed option" when I took delivery of the vehicle. GRRRRR! I feel violated. :)

I'm surprised Honda puts out something in writing about add-ons that are a waste of money. You should have seen the list of junk my dealer was trying to sell me after we closed the deal.
$60 for Nitrogen? Did they have a mask on while negotiating?

Unbelievable? UHHHH? I feel violate that you were violated! :D

That is how they rack up the worth a fraction long list of options totaling $999 that you can DIY for $99 after paying yourself for the labor.

-Rg
 
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