Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner

2621 - 2640 of 2735 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
I was talking to a technician at my Honda service department (the same tech who told me the CRV was going to undergo a major redesign in 2022 which I mention in another thread). He told me this problem was fixed by Honda changing something. I apologize for not remembering, his technical talk was over my head, I am sure many of you would understand what he said. All I know is that supposedly the problem was fixed by Honda replacing something with another something (a valve, gasket, both or what?) I can say this, I have researched this and IF the problem has not been completely fixed then it is definitely getting much better. There are much fewer folk with the 2019's having this problem than the earlier two years. Yes, yes, I know, I know, some will say, "Well, I never had this problem". Gotta remember, only a small percentage had this problem to begin with.

(Still would love to know what those major redesigns are for 2022 :unsure: )

Take care everyone, Acadia
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Seems many use the oil dilution concern as a way to justify the purchase of the lx. I see the same justification behavior on other sites for a variety of reasons as to why one bought a lower or different engine/trim. Human nature to justify I guess. Some just seem to be a bit more emotional about it....
That works both ways. Someone who is adamant that OD in the 1.5L turbo engine is a non-issue could be trying to justify their own purchase of a higher trim. I'm speaking generally, of course.

I bought an LX last week and I already love it. The turbo engine was definitely one significant factor of many that steered me away from the EX, but far from the only consideration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Seems many use the oil dilution concern as a way to justify the purchase of the lx. I see the same justification behavior on other sites for a variety of reasons as to why one bought a lower or different engine/trim. Human nature to justify I guess. Some just seem to be a bit more emotional about it....
Totally agree, as I've also noticed exaggerated fear motivating people's decisions for this vehicle and others.

When I purchased my 2000 Toyota Sienna, the internet talk was of oil sludge in the engine and class action suites - sound familiar? Just sold it this spring for almost $1000 to help with the purchase of my new 2019 CRV. Never had a problem with the engine/transmission and I'm sure it could have gone another 10+ years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Totally agree, as I've also noticed exaggerated fear motivating people's decisions for this vehicle and others.

When I purchased my 2000 Toyota Sienna, the internet talk was of oil sludge in the engine and class action suites - sound familiar? Just sold it this spring for almost $1000 to help with the purchase of my new 2019 CRV. Never had a problem with the engine/transmission and I'm sure it could have gone another 10+ years.
Did that Sienna have the 5S-FE engine? That engine was perfect in the third generation Camry (1992-1996). In the next generation (1997-2001), same engine, OIL SLUDGE and engine seizing. Generally, most people with 4th gen Camrys who changed their oil religiously (every 3,000-4,000 miles using conventional oil) avoided problems.

It's kind of how the 1.5L turbo only suffers oil dilution in the CR-V, but not in the Accord. There's something about the configuration that causes the problem because the same engine doesn't suffer the problem in other configurations in which it is better suited.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Besides using richer fuel ratio in cold engine, DI engine also needs richer fuel ratio to count LSPI. If the engine stays in the LSPI zone for too long, it is vulernable to OD. That happens in warm weather as well. It is hard to get all the fuel out of the oil afterwards especially in cold winter, like waiting for the snow bank to melt, not going to happen till next May.

The difference in OD for 1.5T engines found inside CRV, Accord and Civic, could be the amount of driving done inside the LSPI zone. LSPI counter measure is required at low rpm + heavy load. CRV is the heaviest among the 3, hence is more vulernable to OD.

Rpm may be tuned via engine and transmission control to stay away from LSPI zone, i.e. keeping rpm higher but it may be bad for fuel economy. CRV is known aggressively tuned for fuel economy, hence not helping OD.

Anyway it is hard to have one tuning for all weather and driving habbit. Engine loading increases if you want to accelerate harder. The "fix" tends to help OD for some and on some days but makes OD worse on others. If fuel economy is the dream, there isn't too much room to play with. I really doubt if there will be an OD fix for all in 2020 and near future.

BTW, I had a 1999 Sienna retired at the end of 2017, over 370000km no engine/transmission problem. My friend with the same year Sienna hit the sludge problem but he stored it for 2 years, no driving and no oil change. Dealer fixed it eventually, can't really complain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Besides using richer fuel ratio in cold engine, DI engine also needs richer fuel ratio to count LSPI. If the engine stays in the LSPI zone for too long, it is vulernable to OD. That happens in warm weather as well. It is hard to get all the fuel out of the oil afterwards especially in cold winter, like waiting for the snow bank to melt, not going to happen till next May.

The difference in OD for 1.5T engines found inside CRV, Accord and Civic, could be the amount of driving done inside the LSPI zone. LSPI counter measure is required at low rpm + heavy load. CRV is the heaviest among the 3, hence is more vulernable to OD.

Rpm may be tuned via engine and transmission control to stay away from LSPI zone, i.e. keeping rpm higher but it may be bad for fuel economy. CRV is known aggressively tuned for fuel economy, hence not helping OD.

Anyway it is hard to have one tuning for all weather and driving habbit. Engine loading increases if you want to accelerate harder. The "fix" tends to help OD for some and on some days but makes OD worse on others. If fuel economy is the dream, there isn't too much room to play with. I really doubt if there will be an OD fix for all in 2020 and near future.

BTW, I had a 1999 Sienna retired at the end of 2017, over 370000km no engine/transmission problem. My friend with the same year Sienna hit the sludge problem but he stored it for 2 years, no driving and no oil change. Dealer fixed it eventually, can't really complain.
Makes sense, thank you for the post.
Also BTW...I know two folks who have over 400K miles on that era Sienna.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Besides using richer fuel ratio in cold engine, DI engine also needs richer fuel ratio to count LSPI. If the engine stays in the LSPI zone for too long, it is vulernable to OD. That happens in warm weather as well. It is hard to get all the fuel out of the oil afterwards especially in cold winter, like waiting for the snow bank to melt, not going to happen till next May.

The difference in OD for 1.5T engines found inside CRV, Accord and Civic, could be the amount of driving done inside the LSPI zone. LSPI counter measure is required at low rpm + heavy load. CRV is the heaviest among the 3, hence is more vulernable to OD.

Rpm may be tuned via engine and transmission control to stay away from LSPI zone, i.e. keeping rpm higher but it may be bad for fuel economy. CRV is known aggressively tuned for fuel economy, hence not helping OD.

Anyway it is hard to have one tuning for all weather and driving habbit. Engine loading increases if you want to accelerate harder. The "fix" tends to help OD for some and on some days but makes OD worse on others. If fuel economy is the dream, there isn't too much room to play with. I really doubt if there will be an OD fix for all in 2020 and near future.

BTW, I had a 1999 Sienna retired at the end of 2017, over 370000km no engine/transmission problem. My friend with the same year Sienna hit the sludge problem but he stored it for 2 years, no driving and no oil change. Dealer fixed it eventually, can't really complain.
What's the mileage with your actual CRV? Are you heavily affected by the OD? I mean ....Is the car behavior strange? I have it too ...the OD ....but I would say 0,5cm above the dip stick and I cannot say that is something wrong with my car
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Did that Sienna have the 5S-FE engine? That engine was perfect in the third generation Camry (1992-1996). In the next generation (1997-2001), same engine, OIL SLUDGE and engine seizing. Generally, most people with 4th gen Camrys who changed their oil religiously (every 3,000-4,000 miles using conventional oil) avoided problems.
No way I remember the engine, but it was a 2000 alright. I was pretty good about changing the oil on time. Maybe I was just lucky... like my CRV ;).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Thanks Traylaw. Update: Called dealer service today, told them that there was gas in my oil during oil change last week. Their response was that they couldn't (wouldn't) do anything unless the check engine light came on.

Not my idea of a company selling expensive products that I would care to give my money to. I bought the car in the spring of 2018.

Not really much you can do except manage it by keeping an eye on the oil level via the dip stick and change the oil more frequently. Honda is very unresponsive to customers and they don't really have a fix other than a software update which may help some.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
The 2.4l is still being used on Acura ILX/TLX. Honda has gone with 1.5t to get the 2mpg advantage on epa test and possibly lower mfg cost. Hope they have fixed the issue in 2020. The dealer near me has 248 2019 crv's for sale. Looks like Honda will have to discount them like last year due to the uncertainty in the 1.5t engine. Surprising they haven't tried insulating the engine better, like what jtuber did.

sv11
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Problem really is Honda treating customers as if OD had already been fixed. Would we still get the warranty extension for engine parts on 2019s and 2020s?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,622 Posts
Thanks Traylaw. Update: Called dealer service today, told them that there was gas in my oil during oil change last week. Their response was that they couldn't (wouldn't) do anything unless the check engine light came on.

Not my idea of a company selling expensive products that I would care to give my money to. I bought the car in the spring of 2018.

Making statements like "there was gas in my oil during oil change last week" will get you nowhere.

1) you did not quantify the amount of gas... either in your first post or this one. Why does it matter? Because this engine is designed to run on high oil levels without issue or error... up to more then an inch above the full mark. So your drama in this regard is wasted on a dealer that actually knows the engine is tolerant.. and if the oil becomes too diluted for some reason the engine will respond with one or more error codes. Dealers respond to error codes, or visual observations by their techs, not hearsay relayed by an owner.

2) It is a direct injection engine.. and ALL direct injection engines have some degree of oil dilution with fuel during normal operation. This is not just a Honda challenge, it is a challenge for all their main competitors that also use direct injection technology. So.. telling the dealer what you told them is ... stating the obvious to the dealer. This particular engine, for most owners, appears to work as intended with respect to normal operation cycles also purging fuel from the oil. Some owners though.. have had difficulties, particularly in cold weather conditions where the engine simply never reaches full temperature. As an owner of a CRV though.. all that matters in your case is your vehicle.. not what other owners have reported or claimed on the internet.

If you want a dealer, any dealer, to take you seriously, you need to bring them quantitive information on your concern such that they can evaluate said concern and determine if there is an appropriate action required, or if what you are reporting is within normal engine operation parameters.

Honda has an official campaign in cold weather states to apply a fix to gen5 CRVs to address the engine never coming up to full temperature. Given the large drop off of complaints over the last year from owners, it appears that in many cases this fix solved the owners issue. Some owners report the issue is worse after the fix.. but I question the veracity of those few claims... not that I don't believe them.. simply that they do not make sense and are not verifiable nor are there a lot of owners with the fix making said claims. There could very well be some other issue with their engine.. like a leaky injector for example.. and early on.. there were reports of injectors being found to be leaky and being replaced on some CRVs.

This coming winter will be the first full winter where the Honda TSB to address engine warmup issues will see a full winter cycle with owners. So.. we should know a lot more after this winter about the true value of the Honda applied fixes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
I find it upsetting when people defend unnamed stealerships for being unhelpful to customers. The car business is one of the filthiest in the United States, and although there are some exceptions, I believe the exceptions prove the rule rather than disprove it.

OD issues aside, a 1.5L turbo engine generating not only enough power to move a ~3500 pound vehicle, but to move it with some significant response (at least compared to some competitors in the same class - obviously this is not a sports car) is probably not an engine destined to last over 200-250K miles without problems. Historically, turbo engines generally don't last as long as naturally aspirated engines on average, regardless of whether the fuel burning is accomplished by direct injection, electronic multi-point injection, carburetor, or whatever.

For people who like to lease vehicles and turn them in every 3 years or those who have grown accustomed to a never-ending cycle of monthly finance payments and can trade in a vehicle with relative ease, OD in the 1.5L CRV engine is a non-issue. But some people get attached to their cars and like to keep them for 10-20 years, and the buyers in this category who have bought this engine in this vehicle are realizing they may have made a choice that wasn't the best for their needs. Ultimately, it's going to cost them money that they didn't intend to spend in the long run. I just went through this exact experience with my 2013 Nissan Rogue. It wasn't causing me any problems, but at 69K miles, I could no longer trust the CVT, especially when making left turns against oncoming traffic that was just far enough away for me to have enough time to cross 2-3 lanes of distance and clear the intersection. Overall, I really liked the Rogue and I became attached to it. Trading it in was a much more difficult decision than choosing what vehicle I wanted to buy to replace it. The last time anyone in my family disposed of a vehicle with that small number of miles was when my mother traded her 1977 Dodge Dart (that couldn't make a left turn without stalling out) for a 1983 Corolla.

I think a lot of the people complaining about OD are really just upset that they have a tiny engine in a big car, and some of them unquestionably have buyer's remorse now that they're out of the showroom and they've had time to learn and digest and understand exactly what is sitting in their garages. Let them complain. American Honda obviously doesn't give a crap about them. Why should anyone on this forum?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
I find it upsetting when people defend unnamed stealerships for being unhelpful to customers. The car business is one of the filthiest in the United States, and although there are some exceptions, I believe the exceptions prove the rule rather than disprove it.

OD issues aside, a 1.5L turbo engine generating not only enough power to move a ~3500 pound vehicle, but to move it with some significant response (at least compared to some competitors in the same class - obviously this is not a sports car) is probably not an engine destined to last over 200-250K miles without problems. Historically, turbo engines generally don't last as long as naturally aspirated engines on average, regardless of whether the fuel burning is accomplished by direct injection, electronic multi-point injection, carburetor, or whatever.

For people who like to lease vehicles and turn them in every 3 years or those who have grown accustomed to a never-ending cycle of monthly finance payments and can trade in a vehicle with relative ease, OD in the 1.5L CRV engine is a non-issue. But some people get attached to their cars and like to keep them for 10-20 years, and the buyers in this category who have bought this engine in this vehicle are realizing they may have made a choice that wasn't the best for their needs. Ultimately, it's going to cost them money that they didn't intend to spend in the long run. I just went through this exact experience with my 2013 Nissan Rogue. It wasn't causing me any problems, but at 69K miles, I could no longer trust the CVT, especially when making left turns against oncoming traffic that was just far enough away for me to have enough time to cross 2-3 lanes of distance and clear the intersection. Overall, I really liked the Rogue and I became attached to it. Trading it in was a much more difficult decision than choosing what vehicle I wanted to buy to replace it. The last time anyone in my family disposed of a vehicle with that small number of miles was when my mother traded her 1977 Dodge Dart (that couldn't make a left turn without stalling out) for a 1983 Corolla.

I think a lot of the people complaining about OD are really just upset that they have a tiny engine in a big car, and some of them unquestionably have buyer's remorse now that they're out of the showroom and they've had time to learn and digest and understand exactly what is sitting in their garages. Let them complain. American Honda obviously doesn't give a crap about them. Why should anyone on this forum?
That's pretty deep and I do not believe that most people think so deeply, but I admire your views here. I think people in the case of the 1.5L OD thing (who are not having major engine trouble due to it) are simply venting through controversy. People love to get caught up in controversy, lol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,622 Posts
I think a lot of the people complaining about OD are really just upset that they have a tiny engine in a big car, and some of them unquestionably have buyer's remorse now that they're out of the showroom and they've had time to learn and digest and understand exactly what is sitting in their garages. Let them complain. American Honda obviously doesn't give a crap about them. Why should anyone on this forum?
Could be.. but I doubt it.

This engine may be small in displacement, but it is the pepiest CRV engine to date... and when you want it to move.. it will... and will do so quickly and with a commanding growling noise.

Quiet under the gas pedal, it is not. But it is by no means wimpy... even with the way the CVT is tuned by default.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
Making statements like "there was gas in my oil during oil change last week" will get you nowhere.

1) you did not quantify the amount of gas... either in your first post or this one. Why does it matter? Because this engine is designed to run on high oil levels without issue or error... up to more then an inch above the full mark. So your drama in this regard is wasted on a dealer that actually knows the engine is tolerant.. and if the oil becomes too diluted for some reason the engine will respond with one or more error codes. Dealers respond to error codes, or visual observations by their techs, not hearsay relayed by an owner.

2) It is a direct injection engine.. and ALL direct injection engines have some degree of oil dilution with fuel during normal operation. This is not just a Honda challenge, it is a challenge for all their main competitors that also use direct injection technology. So.. telling the dealer what you told them is ... stating the obvious to the dealer. This particular engine, for most owners, appears to work as intended with respect to normal operation cycles also purging fuel from the oil. Some owners though.. have had difficulties, particularly in cold weather conditions where the engine simply never reaches full temperature. As an owner of a CRV though.. all that matters in your case is your vehicle.. not what other owners have reported or claimed on the internet.

If you want a dealer, any dealer, to take you seriously, you need to bring them quantitive information on your concern such that they can evaluate said concern and determine if there is an appropriate action required, or if what you are reporting is within normal engine operation parameters.

Honda has an official campaign in cold weather states to apply a fix to gen5 CRVs to address the engine never coming up to full temperature. Given the large drop off of complaints over the last year from owners, it appears that in many cases this fix solved the owners issue. Some owners report the issue is worse after the fix.. but I question the veracity of those few claims... not that I don't believe them.. simply that they do not make sense and are not verifiable nor are there a lot of owners with the fix making said claims. There could very well be some other issue with their engine.. like a leaky injector for example.. and early on.. there were reports of injectors being found to be leaky and being replaced on some CRVs.

This coming winter will be the first full winter where the Honda TSB to address engine warmup issues will see a full winter cycle with owners. So.. we should know a lot more after this winter about the true value of the Honda applied fixes.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Honda came out with several variations of the "Fix" I wonder if the later versions came closer to solving the problem. There was never much info out on all the variations.
 
2621 - 2640 of 2735 Posts
Top