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Regarding the whole “special additives” issue, if water/fuel dilution is an industry-wIde issue it surely would have been addressed with the introduction of the SP/GF-6 oil formulation released May 1 of this year. So it seems unlikely Honda branded oil has a “secret sauce” to mitigate the problem.

Best approach for owners is to buy an API approved oil as suggested in the Owner’s Manual in the SP formulation. These oils are now becoming available at WalMart but at the selection is still mixed be sure you choose the right bottle.
Exactly.

Sorry Williamsji, but Honda is not doing something magical here. Just something the rest of the oil industry has already been doing. ILSAC GF-6 is certified by most top brands already.

Trying to market it as something new and required to customers is scam behavior and should be noted as such.
 

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Exactly.

Sorry Williamsji, but Honda is not doing something magical here. Just something the rest of the oil industry has already been doing. ILSAC GF-6 is certified by most top brands already.

Trying to market it as something new and required to customers is scam behavior and should be noted as such.
I did not claim they were doing anything magical. I actually claimed the opposite.. that what they are doing is simply incorporating an improved lubricant as it became available... rather than waiting until the next generation model release. I actually expect that as better lubricants are released to the industry, Honda and other companies will incorporate them into their approved materials list... NOT wait for a model update.

This type if incremental improvement process is fairly typical for Honda, and Honda is by no means unique in this regard.. it is common in the industry. Sometimes it is an actual part improvement, sometimes it is a lubricant or other fluid used in a vehicle design, etc.

But your point does help illustrate the weak foundation of what 2015Touring posted. :)
 

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Thank you guys so much for all the very useful info! I know there is a lot of going back and forth about this but all the info being thrown around is very helpful.
Yesterday I picked up a brand new 2020 EX-L AWD to replace my 2018 Hyundai Tucson. I already like the CRV much better than the Tucson. Good riddance DCT!!
Here's the deal. I never let any GDI engine go over 3-4000 miles before changing the oil and I always use synthetic oil with OEM filters. I will keep my eye on the oil level. Ebay has OEM Honda filters 5 with washers for $35 I am going to pick up. I have research the Honda Ultra oil mentioned here and did not find much info on it regarding being the "latest and greatest" So I guess I am just going to pick up a quality 0w/20 like Mobil 1 or Castrol at Walmart. What do you guys think of the Lucas synthetic oil treatment? I have used it in the past in my Hemi's and it really took care of the Hemi tick. Really coats everything and makes it really lubricated.
 

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My personal OPINION is that no additive is needed, especially on brand new engines. If properly maintained, no engine oil additives should ever be needed.

As for oil change interval, there was much discussion earlier in this thread that covered the ways in which too short of an interval can cause more harm than good. Basically, the additives in modern synthetic oils (no separate specialty additives, just the higher end full synthetics available off the shelf in Walmart) are so advanced and abrasive (in terms of cleansing detergents) that premature wear can result. A bunch of people sent their used oil off for analysis and found that frequent oil changes were resulting in a greater quantity of tiny metal particles, presumably broken off from moving engine parts, than less frequent oil changes.

My personal OPINION is that for the 5th generation CR-V, regardless of which engine you have, it should get its first full synthetic oil change between 1200-2500 miles, then every 6000-7500 miles after that. I like to get the original factory oil out sooner rather than later, but I don't remember if we confirmed whether or not the CR-V comes shipped from the factory with break-in oil. Therefore, just on the chance that break-in oil is used, I would not change it before 1000 miles at the absolute earliest. If you drive less than 7500 miles per year, the oil should be changed every 11 months. This is slightly different than following the maintenance minder built into the vehicle. Remember the fill quantity for the 1.5 engine when replacing the filter is 3.7 quarts, so be sure that it doesn't get overfilled.
 

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Honda doesn’t use a break-in oil per se, but does use assembly lubes that are rich in molybdenum. The molybdenum washes in to the engine oil and, in Honda’s opinion, contributes to a good break-in if left in the engine long enough: i.e. for a normal OCI.

The reasoning seems to be that molybdenum prevent hot spots from forming on cylinder walls as the rings conform to their surfaces. These hot spots can cause oil to harden into deposits that can’t be removed short of tear down and can cause oil consumption and other ills.

Owners here seem to do early changes or not and other OEMs don’t seem to obsess over this issue so who knows how important it is. But keeping the factory fill in for 4-5k may be a good idea.
 

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OEMs That Use Break-in Oil?

Take Dan's advice above.

Scroll down to post #23 on the above link. If you are not aware of the forum, it is affiliated with Blackstone Labs, the oil analysis site. Excellent info about oil from ppl who are not dedicated to one vehicle or one brand of oil.

@brihvac, when time permits please PM me about the Tucson. Seems it caused issues ?
(don't want to derail this thread)
 

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My personal OPINION is that no additive is needed, especially on brand new engines. If properly maintained, no engine oil additives should ever be needed.

As for oil change interval, there was much discussion earlier in this thread that covered the ways in which too short of an interval can cause more harm than good. Basically, the additives in modern synthetic oils (no separate specialty additives, just the higher end full synthetics available off the shelf in Walmart) are so advanced and abrasive (in terms of cleansing detergents) that premature wear can result. A bunch of people sent their used oil off for analysis and found that frequent oil changes were resulting in a greater quantity of tiny metal particles, presumably broken off from moving engine parts, than less frequent oil changes.

My personal OPINION is that for the 5th generation CR-V, regardless of which engine you have, it should get its first full synthetic oil change between 1200-2500 miles, then every 6000-7500 miles after that. I like to get the original factory oil out sooner rather than later, but I don't remember if we confirmed whether or not the CR-V comes shipped from the factory with break-in oil. Therefore, just on the chance that break-in oil is used, I would not change it before 1000 miles at the absolute earliest. If you drive less than 7500 miles per year, the oil should be changed every 11 months. This is slightly different than following the maintenance minder built into the vehicle. Remember the fill quantity for the 1.5 engine when replacing the filter is 3.7 quarts, so be sure that it doesn't get overfilled.
I agree with CrazyMind2017s assessment here, with the exception of recommending early change of factory installed oil. Honda specifically recommends against this in their owners manual. Listen to Honda as it is their engine designs.

If the day comes and Honda changes that recommendation... then follow said changes in recommendation. Until then.. follow current Honda recommendations and stop second guessing Honda engineers. NONE of us has the data required in hand to objectively recommend against Honda recommendations on first oil change.
 

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My personal OPINION is that no additive is needed, especially on brand new engines. If properly maintained, no engine oil additives should ever be needed.

As for oil change interval, there was much discussion earlier in this thread that covered the ways in which too short of an interval can cause more harm than good. Basically, the additives in modern synthetic oils (no separate specialty additives, just the higher end full synthetics available off the shelf in Walmart) are so advanced and abrasive (in terms of cleansing detergents) that premature wear can result. A bunch of people sent their used oil off for analysis and found that frequent oil changes were resulting in a greater quantity of tiny metal particles, presumably broken off from moving engine parts, than less frequent oil changes.

My personal OPINION is that for the 5th generation CR-V, regardless of which engine you have, it should get its first full synthetic oil change between 1200-2500 miles, then every 6000-7500 miles after that. I like to get the original factory oil out sooner rather than later, but I don't remember if we confirmed whether or not the CR-V comes shipped from the factory with break-in oil. Therefore, just on the chance that break-in oil is used, I would not change it before 1000 miles at the absolute earliest. If you drive less than 7500 miles per year, the oil should be changed every 11 months. This is slightly different than following the maintenance minder built into the vehicle. Remember the fill quantity for the 1.5 engine when replacing the filter is 3.7 quarts, so be sure that it doesn't get overfilled.
Do you know what frequency is used by the Maintenance Minder for oil changes? I drive about 6,000 miles per year and the Minder shows an oil change about every 12 months.
 

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My personal OPINION is that no additive is needed, especially on brand new engines. If properly maintained, no engine oil additives should ever be needed.

As for oil change interval, there was much discussion earlier in this thread that covered the ways in which too short of an interval can cause more harm than good. Basically, the additives in modern synthetic oils (no separate specialty additives, just the higher end full synthetics available off the shelf in Walmart) are so advanced and abrasive (in terms of cleansing detergents) that premature wear can result. A bunch of people sent their used oil off for analysis and found that frequent oil changes were resulting in a greater quantity of tiny metal particles, presumably broken off from moving engine parts, than less frequent oil changes.

My personal OPINION is that for the 5th generation CR-V, regardless of which engine you have, it should get its first full synthetic oil change between 1200-2500 miles, then every 6000-7500 miles after that. I like to get the original factory oil out sooner rather than later, but I don't remember if we confirmed whether or not the CR-V comes shipped from the factory with break-in oil. Therefore, just on the chance that break-in oil is used, I would not change it before 1000 miles at the absolute earliest. If you drive less than 7500 miles per year, the oil should be changed every 11 months. This is slightly different than following the maintenance minder built into the vehicle. Remember the fill quantity for the 1.5 engine when replacing the filter is 3.7 quarts, so be sure that it doesn't get overfilled.
Changing your oil more frequently has no side effects. Unless you count your bank account.

Cut this opinion crap out of this thread. It's bad info with no data to back it up. I saw the Bob's thread you saw to make this statement and it's based on no real data.

Quit polluting this thread
 

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Cut this opinion crap out of this thread. It's bad info with no data to back it up. I saw the Bob's thread you saw to make this statement and it's based on no real data.
I have no idea what you're talking about. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. Your pollution is just as dirty as mine.
 

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Changing your oil more frequently has no side effects. Unless you count your bank account.
Correct with respect to engine realibility, but an incorrect statement in the context of a formal oil analysis. Reason: The chemistry of 0W20 oil, really any and all synthetic oils that meet manufacturers specifications for internal combustion engines.

We discussed this all months back when, I think it might have been Dan15 reported that he was observing higher particulates in some more frequent oil changes and was worried the engine was degrading due to OD induced low viscosity. The levels were within spec, but higher than expected and so it merited an explanation and understanding of how modern lubricants can and do perform some chemical scrubbing when you put fresh oil into an engine.

The "crust of the biscuit" here is this, and I will keep it brief.. because I don't wan't to get you triggered again over word count:

- Fresh new oil has a full range of additives, and some of these are actually "detergent" in quality.. and being chemicals.. they will react with both the metals in the internal components, as well as scrubbing off of carbon or other combustion byproducts.

- Tribochemistry - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics and why it matters.

- While I am positive Honda engineers have designed for this chemical effect of fresh lubricants, and I have yet to see any oil analysis numbers that are out of bounds due to this, owners do need to understand that frequent oil changes will result in some metal particulate count increases when measured through formal oil analysis and tracked over time.. oil change to oil change. This is more about the precision of the oil analysis, than any actual defect or condition warranting concern by an owner.
 

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I was told today by my dealer parts department that I need to be using Honda's new engine oil in my 2018 Honda CRV 1.5L. I went in to pick up an oil filter. She came out with the filter ($17.19CA with crush and taxes) and a Liter of 0-20 Honda Oil. She said that Honda is now using a synthetic blend of some kind that will be better for for the oil dilution problem. She also said that I would be wise to use it since my extended warrantee may not be honored if I do not. Has anyone heard anything of this? Thanks
Salesman told me they are using a new synthetic blend that is designed to help OD when I leased my new 2020 in May. I’m at 60% oil life left on my factory oil so hopefully I’m due for that first oil change before the cold temperatures set in . Checked my oil last week and it’s holding steady on the full line after aprox 4700 kilometres mixed driving . I’ll take it for a 40 kilometre run if my wife does a few days of short trips.
 

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While I am positive Honda engineers have designed for this chemical effect of fresh lubricants, and I have yet to see any oil analysis numbers that are out of bounds due to this, owners do need to understand that frequent oil changes will result in some metal particulate count increases when measured through formal oil analysis and tracked over time.. oil change to oil change. This is more about the precision of the oil analysis, than any actual defect or condition warranting concern by an owner.
I've had two Toyota engines in my family reach 300,000 miles from new in addition to several other older vehicles purchased used. Very small engine oil leaks begin to appear after 200,000 miles and they're not worth fixing because the amount of oil lost is almost negligible. It was easier to add an extra quart of oil every 1500-2000 miles than it was to have the entire engine taken apart, reconditioned, and overhauled with new seals.

My prediction with these new full synthetic oils containing chemicals with detergent properties is that they will cause enough small particles to break away from moving engine parts in the first 150,000-200,000 miles of life that such leaks will be worse after 200,000 miles, especially if the oil is changed too frequently. Therefore, I would not go to a synthetic blend no matter what other benefits such oil may offer, for the simple reason that I would want to change the oil more frequently with a synthetic blend than with a full synthetic. I will stick with full synthetic and a 6000-7000 mile OCI. I think that's most likely to prolong the life and reliability of the CR-V engine with minimal oil loss at high mileage.
 

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I was told today by my dealer parts department that I need to be using Honda's new engine oil in my 2018 Honda CRV 1.5L. I went in to pick up an oil filter. She came out with the filter ($17.19CA with crush and taxes) and a Liter of 0-20 Honda Oil. She said that Honda is now using a synthetic blend of some kind that will be better for for the oil dilution problem. She also said that I would be wise to use it since my extended warrantee may not be honored if I do not. Has anyone heard anything of this? Thanks
Wow, that dealer is sticking it to you without even kissing you first. I am paying $29.99 for a three pack of 15400-RTA-003 and drain washers. 0w/20 part 08798-8023c is $7.70 per litre. If you want to pony up to the 0w/20 ultra part 08798-8023cu costs me $9.88 per litre.

I myself am using the standard 0w/20 as I do mid life oil changes, spill and fill without replacing the filter. When I am notified by the OLM to change the oil then she gets the full change. So far our CRV has been bullet proof and we still have the original battery:rolleyes:
 

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Woops, apologies having some internet issues.. I wish I was paying some of your Southern prices. One other thing on the moisture issue. As I understand my dealer the moisture additive may help the oil dilution issue but it is mostly for the water. In some circumstances the water can settle in the oil sump. In my climate it could freeze in the sump starving the engine of oil at start up. Makes sense I guess.
 

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I've had two Toyota engines in my family reach 300,000 miles from new in addition to several other older vehicles purchased used. Very small engine oil leaks begin to appear after 200,000 miles and they're not worth fixing because the amount of oil lost is almost negligible. It was easier to add an extra quart of oil every 1500-2000 miles than it was to have the entire engine taken apart, reconditioned, and overhauled with new seals.

My prediction with these new full synthetic oils containing chemicals with detergent properties is that they will cause enough small particles to break away from moving engine parts in the first 150,000-200,000 miles of life that such leaks will be worse after 200,000 miles, especially if the oil is changed too frequently. Therefore, I would not go to a synthetic blend no matter what other benefits such oil may offer, for the simple reason that I would want to change the oil more frequently with a synthetic blend than with a full synthetic. I will stick with full synthetic and a 6000-7000 mile OCI. I think that's most likely to prolong the life and reliability of the CR-V engine with minimal oil loss at high mileage.
Except you thought about seal conditioners and other additives that are applied to newer oils. This is why they suggest moving to a high mileage oil. But a properly maintained engine early on in life has a much better chance of not developing leaks later.

AGAIN:
Changing your oil more often has no effect on longevity. There is zero data to support it.

There is a hell of a lot more data support frequent oil changes. Especially in regards to direct injection engines. OD changing the viscosity as well as possible valve coking from contaminants.

If you want longer oil changes intervals and longer life out of the CRV, switch to 0w30. Full synthetic every oil change.
 

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I reached out to 2 large Honda dealers in my area about a early first oil change and the answer was the same- leave in for about 5k.
 
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