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AGAIN:
Changing your oil more often has no effect on longevity. There is zero data to support it.

There is a hell of a lot more data support frequent oil changes. Especially in regards to direct injection engines. OD changing the viscosity as well as possible valve coking from contaminants.
Accurate assessment, with one nuance to be aware of.

More frequent oil changes will result in higher metal particulate counts in any oil analysis.... but I have yet to see one that is out of range in any oil analysis published by a CRV owner. But just like some owners freak at the color of their oil or the smell of their oil.. some also freak at any variations in oil analysis results (rather then seek and understand why and what is normal vs abnormal).

The nuance is an owner who changes their oil frequently, has an oil analysis performed on each change, and then panics when they see metal particulate counts higher than prior oil changes on oil that ran longer miles. We actually had this very sort of thing in the forum sometime later part of last year.. even though the higher metal particle counts remained well within normal limits according to Blackstone.

So my only advice to those who prefer to change oil more frequently... just understand that the additives in the oil designed for scrubbing out deposits.. will also result in some small increase in metal particle counts. THAT is not your engine self destructing, that is the additives doing their chemical job.. which has one side effect... slightly higher particle counts in an oil analysis.
 

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I reached out to 2 large Honda dealers in my area about a early first oil change and the answer was the same- leave in for about 5k.
I'm not surprised.. as most CRVs will pop a MM at around 5K on the factory oil. Some will go less distance and some will go more... it all depends on the particular owners driving style and driving conditions.

I'm a low annual miles driver for the most part so mine popped at ~2750 on the factory oil... but that was at the one year calendar point (which the MM is now smart enough to keep track of for owners) where oil change is specified as mandatory.

Each owner is free to do as they wish with respect to oil changes of course... but when Honda very specifically states that they want the factory oil to remain until the MM triggers a change point.... I personally take them at their word.

Honda knows much more about proper break-in characteristics of their engines than any of us do, and the current generation Maintenance Minder is very intelligent and monitors a wide range of variables now days to calculate remaining oil life.
 

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What about a new CR-V leftover that has been sitting on a dealer lot with under 10 miles on the odometer for the last 11 months? Will the MM show 0% remaining oil life after driving it for 30 days and less than 500 miles?

One of the following must be true: Honda has been irresponsible in giving the factory oil too important of a role in the long-term preservation of engine parts (because there will always be a certain number of units that sit for a year or longer before being driven any significant distance), or the molybdenum in the factory oil isn't really all that important after all (if the MM does in fact call for an oil change at less than 500 miles), or the one-year limit on oil isn't as hard and strict as we've been led to believe (if the MM is programmed to be smart enough to allow for the factory oil to remain longer than one year after shipment from the factory based on extremly low mileage).

None of these three scenarios looks very good from my perspective.

Is there a fourth possibility here I'm neglecting to see?
 

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Is there a fourth possibility here I'm neglecting to see?
Yes. That you are fretting, fussing, and worrying over "maybes" or "what abouts". :)

The 1.5T engine has been in the field in one or more Honda models starting with the Civic) for approaching 5 years now. Somewhere between 5 and 6 million of them in the field and counting. A good number of them with a LOT of miles on them too. Other than the early issues with ECU timing and the colder nature of the CRV deployment of the engine..... both addressed now... there have been no real issues of note with this engine... just the normal random failures that any engine may encounter on any given vehicle.

As for what the MM does while hypothetically sitting on some dealer lot for close to a year..... IF it has been dealer prepped for sale... YES.. the MM will tick down by 10% every 37-38 days. This is the responsibility of the dealer to address, so I really do not know why it concerns you in any way.. .unless you are buying said vehicle. In which case, knowing a vehicle has been on the lot for that long.. it is prudent on you to check the MM before taking delivery.

Did the oil hypothetically sitting for a year get a chance to do it's break-in cycle with the engine? Nope. Does it matter? Who knows. Ask Honda. Is a corner case hypothetical like this relevant? Only if you are looking for things to complain about, worry about or argue about. My opinion: said oil should be changed before delivery to new owner (or a free first oil change included as part of sale), and the fact that the vehicle was never really driven means that all the moly based lubricants that are part of engine assembly are still in the non-broken-in engine as it has not been driven enough to scrub them out with the factory oil, much less complete the engine break-in (not that there is much of any real break-in on modern engines). And since Honda uses no special break-in oil at the factory... it really does not matter if the original oil is replaced with Honda spec oil.
 

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What about a new CR-V leftover that has been sitting on a dealer lot with under 10 miles on the odometer for the last 11 months?
Understand your point, but highly unlikely a vehicle would sit on a dealer lot over 4-5 months max. They would discount and sell. Or if just a single vehicle use as a demo/loaner. Perhaps a better scenario would be an owned vehicle driven sparingly.

This may come as a surprise to you, but most car dealers don't actually own the cars they're selling.

There is usually several million dollars worth of inventory on a typical dealer's lot, and those cars are all owned by a bank or finance company.

The dealer borrows money through what's called "floor plan financing" in order to keep the inventory on their lots.
Floor plan financing is a type of short-term loan that is paid off in 30 to 90 days, the time it normally takes to sell a car.

A typical new car costs a dealer about $5 to $10 in interest per day. So if a car sits on the lot for 30 days, the dealer will be charged $150 - $300 in interest payments.

This is why dealers want to sell cars as quickly as possible - to reduce their financing costs and increase profits.
Most manufacturers reimburse these finance costs through what is called "dealer holdback". This is usually 2 - 3% of the invoice price of the vehicle.

On a typical $28,000 car, a 2% holdback would amount to around $550. If the dealer sells this car in 30 days and incurs financing costs of $300, then they will make a profit of $250 on the holdback.

If a car has been sitting on the lot for a long time, the financing costs will eat up all the potential profit and the dealer may have to sell the car at a loss.

You can usually get the best deals on cars that have been sitting on the lot a long time since dealers are anxious to get rid of them and cut their losses.

Why It's Important for Dealers to Sell Cars Quickly
 

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Only if you are looking for things to complain about, worry about or argue about.
Bingo! :cool::p Cars have changed, and many of the changes have unintended consequences that are bad. That's my point. Maybe you like playing with a computer built with wheels and seats for humans inside a steel cage. I prefer a car that's less electronic and more mechanical. Remember when there was a real physical cable connecting the gas pedal to the throttle? I LIKE THAT.

The reliance on a maintenance minder (all lowercase) has created a strange scenario for vehicles that sit for long periods of time when relatively new. This happens more often than a lot of car buyers realize. In either the 2019 or 2020 pricing threads, there are some anectodal discussions about numerous older stock units that have been sitting on dealer lots for many months if not over a year. Especially in this crazy year, I think most dealers would agree that clearing old inventory has been harder than usual.

I realize dealers use borrowed money to buy their inventory from Honda, but as a buyer, I have no concern over whether the dealer is paying finance charges to the bank for a particular vehicle. That has nothing to do with this.
 

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You have to love that this thread has gone from being about Honda OD killing the engine way before it’s expected life time to discussing oil manufacturers additives killing the engine before it’s expected life time. I have a personal feeling this engine will outlive all those concerns.
 

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Understand your point, but highly unlikely a vehicle would sit on a dealer lot over 4-5 months max. They would discount and sell. Or if just a single vehicle use as a demo/loaner. Perhaps a better scenario would be an owned vehicle driven sparingly.

This may come as a surprise to you, but most car dealers don't actually own the cars they're selling.

There is usually several million dollars worth of inventory on a typical dealer's lot, and those cars are all owned by a bank or finance company.

The dealer borrows money through what's called "floor plan financing" in order to keep the inventory on their lots.
Floor plan financing is a type of short-term loan that is paid off in 30 to 90 days, the time it normally takes to sell a car.

A typical new car costs a dealer about $5 to $10 in interest per day. So if a car sits on the lot for 30 days, the dealer will be charged $150 - $300 in interest payments.

This is why dealers want to sell cars as quickly as possible - to reduce their financing costs and increase profits.
Most manufacturers reimburse these finance costs through what is called "dealer holdback". This is usually 2 - 3% of the invoice price of the vehicle.

On a typical $28,000 car, a 2% holdback would amount to around $550. If the dealer sells this car in 30 days and incurs financing costs of $300, then they will make a profit of $250 on the holdback.

If a car has been sitting on the lot for a long time, the financing costs will eat up all the potential profit and the dealer may have to sell the car at a loss.

You can usually get the best deals on cars that have been sitting on the lot a long time since dealers are anxious to get rid of them and cut their losses.

Why It's Important for Dealers to Sell Cars Quickly
What does any of this have to do with oil dilution?!?!
 

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What does any of this have to do with oil dilution?!?!
It's a tangential discussion. After 171+ pages, a harmless tangent shouldn't surprise or alarm anyone. It's not like anyone completely hijacked the thread to talk about gardening or some other far out subject having nothing to do with Honda engines. There's a clear path that the discussion took from OD to other oil-related engine concerns.
 

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What does any of this have to do with oil dilution?!?!
The subtopic being discussed here is oil life, and oil quality while sitting parked doing nothing for long periods of time. And in any such discussion... the MM also comes up... because some owners simply refuse to trust the MM and demand old school paper service schedules for everything. Thing is... most owners never really consult their owners manuals much at all, not to mention check it for maintenance schedules.... and the entire industry has largely moved to maintenance minders.

These subtopics are peripherally related to the OD discussion... as some owners feel they can avoid OD issues with more frequent oil changes. Much of said discussion revolves around the engine and it's effects on oil quality, which in turn affects engine performance and reliability.

Trust me, we have been off on much less related sub-topics as the discussion has meandered over the last two years, with no harm to the overall discussion.

Bottom line though.. every single worry and fear about OD and the resulting engine reliability concerns has been completely speculative... with no objective evidence to support the concerns.... with an engine design now almost 5 years in Honda volume production and use in Civics, Accords, CRVs and more than 5 million engines in the field. If this engine had any real reliability issues.. we would have known by now.
 

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What does any of this have to do with oil dilution?!?!
It's a tangential discussion. After 171+ pages, a harmless tangent shouldn't surprise or alarm anyone. It's not like anyone completely hijacked the thread to talk about gardening or some other far out subject having nothing to do with Honda engines. There's a clear path that the discussion took from OD to other oil-related engine concerns.
As addressed by williamsji, CM 2017 posted a question about a car that could sit on a dealer lot for 11 months and the effect on the MM.

My post was to indicate that would not happen.
 

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I would guess that the oil minder takes into account storage and doesn't start the clock until the vehicle starts to add significant miles. It wouldn't make sense to "start the clock" simply by driving the vehicle off the assembly line or by transferring it 40 miles during a dealer swap. Who knows, perhaps the clock is started during the delivery process along with the XM trial subscription.
 

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I would guess that the oil minder takes into account storage and doesn't start the clock until the vehicle starts to add significant miles. It wouldn't make sense to "start the clock" simply by driving the vehicle off the assembly line or by transferring it 40 miles during a dealer swap. Who knows, perhaps the clock is started during the delivery process along with the XM trial subscription.
I believe the clock on the MM starts once the dealer completes their prep-for-sale (which takes several hours and it is a long list of things they have to do) after they pull it off the delivery truck. There are a number of things that they activate, including installing fuses for some of the systems. Prior to that..... the core functions are all active, but not all the bells and whistles.

So.. a new vehicle sitting at a storage lot (not yet prepped for sale) would likely not have the MM activated, and if they store one on a storage lot (ie: not going to be prepped and sold immediately) I bet most dealers also disconnect the battery too.

A prepped and ready to sell vehicle.. I fully would expect that the MM begins ticking down at the rate of 10% ever 37 days. Reason: Honda's specified 1 year oil life change.
 

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Pardon me if I missed it, but did the Judge ever sign the final order on the class action lawsuit related to OD to force the dealers in warm states to apply the software fix? I am in FL and my dealer refuses to apply it to my 18.
 

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Pardon me if I missed it, but did the Judge ever sign the final order on the class action lawsuit related to OD to force the dealers in warm states to apply the software fix? I am in FL and my dealer refuses to apply it to my 18.
I do not recall seeing anything in the proposed settlement where Honda agreed to apply their software fix to unconditionally for all CRVs in warm weather states.

Honda already announced formally to owners in the US that they would apply the fix to warm weather state CRVs IF and WHEN the vehicle exhibited persistent abnormal oil rise.
 

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Thank you. I do have oil rise and the dealer has seen it three times in 2 years of ownership. The dealer said unless I have codes or noise, he will not apply the software. Honda Corp. said it is because of liability. ???
 
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