Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this month's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
2017 Honda CR-V EX
Joined
·
43 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
According to the 2017 CR-V owner's manual the passenger side airbag off indicator depends on a weight sensor that has a threshold of 65 lbs (29kg) to activate the airbag. Meaning anyone sitting on the passenger seat weighing more than 65 lbs (29kg) should make the indicator light to turn off and activate the airbag.

My daughter who is twelve years old and weighs roughly 100lbs (43kg) does not reliably activate the airbag which is a problem when she is riding in the front. She is roughly 35 lbs (14kg) above the weight sensor threshold. I had the Honda dealer check this, they recalibrated the sensor/system, contacted and Honda tech line and claim the system is working as expected. However the system still does not reliably turn on the airbag. I cannot believe and accept that the sensor should have such a high tolerance!

Has anyone encountered such a problem with the passenger airbag indicator and weight sensor before? Did you find a solution (except gaining weight)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
I can not speak for the system on this new Honda but I have done work with other vehicles in the course of my work. One of the demonstrations I use to do in class was to "guess" the weight of the students. They were always amazed by how close I could get. Later they learned I was just reading the data stream of the car and the sensors were telling me their weight. My experience was that these things are in general pretty accurate. So I have to wonder what is going on with your car. My 115 pound wife always activates the airbag. I have not read the sensor readings on this car however, I am just going by personal experience on this car and professional experience with other vehicles with similar systems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,929 Posts
A couple things:
- The FMVSS require the information in the manual to be accurate. It looks like it is a safety violation in and of itself to say that the airbag turns off with "approximately 65lb or less" and then tell you it's "working as designed" when your 100lb daughter does not activate it.
- But beyond the manual requirements, the tests are done with a 108lb "5th percentile female" dummy, so technically your daughter is under the weight under which the airbag must activate.

I would report the situation to the NHTSA here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/ Mention your daughter's weight, the statement in the manual, and Honda's response.

I suspect the issue is that the calibration procedure is done to set the point at which it reads zero. If something is preventing the sensor from compressing, zero will read correctly, but weight will not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Not to get too picky here, but they say it turns off with 65 pounds, so is it possible that the weight on the seat is less than that when your daughter puts her feet on the floor (taking the weight of her legs off the seat) and maybe leans back to put some of her weight on the seat back?

All that said, it does seem odd (and not right) that a 100 pound person wouldn't enable the airbag and I'd definitely keep looking into it. Maybe I'll get my 12yo daughter to sit in the front and see what happens too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,929 Posts
Beyond the statements that the manual should be accurate, the actual federal standard is only that it MUST be disabled for their official 65lb test dummy, and it MUST be enabled for their official 110 lb dummy (anything in the middle is undefined), and it's true that there is some variance based on height, seating position, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much. She is, indeed, below the limit in which it's been determined the airbags are useful, given the risks involved. A belted person that small should not have to worry overmuch about impacting the dash in a survivable accident.
 

·
Registered
2017 Honda CR-V EX
Joined
·
43 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for all of your comments. It is interesting to learn about the federal standards and such a large undefined zone between 65lbs and 110lbs.

I had my daughter sit differently, lean one way or the other, and also varied the seat. Sometimes the indicator light goes off and sometimes it does not. The mechanic told me according to his measurements on his laptop while my daughter was sitting there, that the readings indicated she was just at the threshold of the system and therefore it is not surprising it sometimes activates or not.

I will try to get in touch with Honda directly and see what their response is going to be. Eventually the problem will solve itself when my daughter grows and gains more weight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
My mother weighs 100 lbs soaking wet but does not enable the air bag. She is worried about it and I am too since I'd rather it deploy with an adult sitting in the front seat. Who knows, in a serious accident, the air bag deploying could make all the difference.
 

·
Registered
2017 Honda CR-V EX
Joined
·
43 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all of your comments. It is interesting to learn about the federal standards and such a large undefined zone between 65lbs and 110lbs.

I had my daughter sit differently, lean one way or the other, and also varied the seat. Sometimes the indicator light goes off and sometimes it does not. The mechanic told me according to his measurements on his laptop while my daughter was sitting there, that the readings indicated she was just at the threshold of the system and therefore it is not surprising it sometimes activates or not.

I will try to get in touch with Honda directly and see what their response is going to be. Eventually the problem will solve itself when my daughter grows and gains more weight.
I filed a complaint with the NHTSA. Let's see what the outcome will be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
This should be interesting to see. The unit for the airbags is software driven on most cars these days. It could be a software issue in their programing. As for the weight on the seat, they calculate that. So they don't actually use the actual weight that is pushing down on the sensor rather they have done tests and have a model that says if a weight of "X" on the seat represents a person who actually weighs "Y". It is possible that if someone is on the boarder line of the weight that perhaps the distribution of their body weight or how they sit or something could make a difference. Hard to say, but its clearly something that needs looked into.

The normal NHTSB procedure is to see how many "complaints" they get, how serious they are and then if called for they contact the manufacturer and ask for information. If they suspect there is an issue they will then do their own investigation to find out what is going on and causing the problem. Its not a fast process as it is, after all, a typical government bureaucracy but it does work if they see enough complaints to turn on their alarms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I am having same issue. Wife at 115# has on 2 occasions not triggered the sensor causing the light for air bag OFF to light.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Have either of the two people who filed complaints with the NHTSB heard any useful response? Is the problem still happening?
 

·
Registered
2016 CRV Touring AWD
Joined
·
3,774 Posts
Given the Takata experience I sure hope NHTSA has a higher degree of sensitivity to Airbag complaints than they used to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
I wonder if most people really understand how the NTSB system works. If you think that if you file a complaint and then they get on the phone with Honda and pressure them for a fix then you will be disappointed. Fact is you are much better off pursuing this directly with Honda. The process is simple. First you take the car in and have a dealer check it. If you still have the issue then you take it back. You save all the work orders. You make sure when you take the car in that the work order has your exact complaint clearly spelled out. This is important!

Next, after you make two documented trips to the dealer if you still have the complaint you contact the Honda customer service line. You have them "open a case" on your car. This means there is now paperwork on you car with your problem and you expect it to be resolved. This is the important step to get documented. Now Honda has to do something to resolve this issue. Do NOT think that a dealership is going to go do this for you, most will not. A dealer is an independent business person who buys a franchise from Honda. You need to take your case to Honda, not a dealer.

Honda is far more likely to resolve your problem than you reporting it to the NTSB. They are a typical slow moving government bureaucracy. They push paper around and generate reports. They will act but only if there is a very large number of complaints and it will take months if not longer for anything to happen. Meanwhile you are still sitting home fretting over your perceived problem with no solution. Maybe in a year or two the NTSB will finally get this resolved for you.

Your state has Lemon Laws. In most states a company only gets three attempts to resolve an issue that is safety related or greatly impacts the value of the vehicle. (Laws vary. I served on a group in Ohio so while I know their laws well I also know other states do have variations, check you state laws to be sure). Honda is well aware of these laws and knows that if you have a real issue and they don't fix it you could very well end up getting a new car or your money back. They hate doing that as they have to dispose of your almost new car and they can't just resell it without a disclosure.

So I tell all of you that want to run off to the NTSB thinking they will get your problems resolved, STOP and think! That is not the best way to approach any issue with a car. Work with the car maker first and work your way though the system. You are far more likely to get satisfaction and you will get it MUCH quicker. I know this from both working inside the industry and from spending three years working Lemon Law. I have seen many hundreds of cases and how they played out. If you want to play games with the NTSB, be my guest, in many cases its more a waste of your time than anything. When you bought your car you should have a booklet that explains all of this to you. Have you read that book? If not, do so as it spells out how to get issues resolved including Lemon Law cases. Getting on this forum and huffing and puffing about contacting the NTSB is the worse way to really resolve a problem.

I want you to get your car fixed and fixed quickly if there is a problem. I spent forty years of my working life fixing people's problems, I know a little bit about it and how the systems work. If you chose to listen to some stranger on some internet forum tell you how to get results then go at it. I guess people feel "empowered" by filling out those on-line NTSB forms. Truth is they won't get you any fast action. Honda wants to fix your car. They know if there is a real problem and you go the Lemon Law route that they can lose and it will cost them far more than making repairs for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I one time renting a Passat. I am constantly hear beep from the car with message tell me to wear seat bell. Turnout my coat on the passenger side is having enough weight for car to think that there is a passenger there...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
I am having the same problem with our ’17.

With my wife at 125#, it is marginal. So I carried a 5# weight in the back floor and when it failed, I would hand that to her as a test and the light would go out. Sometimes when she gets in, it fails. She gets out and back in and it’s ok.

It fails all the time with a 116# passenger.

It does not fail like this in the ’03 Ody, ’06 Pilot, and ’06 CR-V. I think the ’17 only has 1 sensor on the left rail. The other vehicles have a sensor on each rail.

I ran some tests of static loading the passenger seat with weight. Pretty disturbing about the variances you can see. Similar results with removing weights too. The 65# reference seems meaningless. (be patient if you try this, it’s a slow scan of the sensor. Probably 5 to 10 secs. apart)

I got nowhere with bringing it in for warranty service. “nothing to see here, no DTC code thrown”.
I tried to get into a reasonable discussion with the service writer, explaining it’s a sensor ‘range’ problem, not a failure that would show a DTC. No luck.

I got the corporate survey questionnaire 2 days later. Really unloaded about this. The service mgr. emailed me. We went back and forth about this and I got nowhere.

sirwired – you seem to have some detailed reference about test dummy weight or FMVSS data. I’ve tried to search that site but couldn’t find anything. Any link you can provide?
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top