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Discussion Starter #1
I'll be changing all the pads and resurfaceing all the rotors on my 2009 CRV. I read at 3 years the brake fluid should also be changed. I just purchased the pad kits and fluid from my dealer, they also gave me the lube Honda uses for the caliper pins, something called High Temp Urea Grease. I have a Motive Bleeder system with Honda adapter on the way.

What is the proper order to do things here. I was thinking I could put the car up on stands, put a tube on each bleeder valve, open them up, remove the master cyl. cap and let all the fluid drain from the system by gravity or pump it out by pressurizing the system with the Motive but no new fluid. This would prevent the old fluid from getting back into the system when I push the caliper pistons in. I would then remove and replace the pads and rotors on each wheel and use the Motive Bleeder to Pump in the new fluid, one wheel at a time.

  1. Can I cause any problems by allowing the system, including the master cylinder, to drain completely? Will the master bleed itself?
  2. If using the empty Motive to pressure out the old fluid can I open all 4 bleeder valves at once or should I do one wheel at a time?
  3. If one at a time, in what order should they be emptied?
  4. What order should they be bled in when adding new fluid?
  5. How much new fluid should it take to flush the system?
Thanks for your advice.
 

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Everything in Moderation
2006 CR-V EX, 5MT
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What is the proper order to do things here. I was thinking I could put the car up on stands, put a tube on each bleeder valve, open them up, remove the master cyl. cap and let all the fluid drain from the system by gravity or pump it out by pressurizing the system with the Motive but no new fluid. This would prevent the old fluid from getting back into the system when I push the caliper pistons in. I would then remove and replace the pads and rotors on each wheel and use the Motive Bleeder to Pump in the new fluid, one wheel at a time.

  1. Can I cause any problems by allowing the system, including the master cylinder, to drain completely? Will the master bleed itself?
  2. If using the empty Motive to pressure out the old fluid can I open all 4 bleeder valves at once or should I do one wheel at a time?
  3. If one at a time, in what order should they be emptied?
  4. What order should they be bled in when adding new fluid?
  5. How much new fluid should it take to flush the system?

1. Don't drain the system, keep adding so that it never runs "dry". The cylinders (and more importantly, the ABS pump) will NOT bleed themselves.

2. I've always used the two-man brake pedal routine. (Tried various power-bleeders, but always had sealing problems, and I gave up.) I do one wheel at a time so as to maintain "control".

3. Again, DON'T empty any cylinders...

4. Many Honda shop manuals recommend RF-LF-RR-LR. The 'traditional' order is to start with the wheel farthest from the reservoir. I've used both philosophies on my Hondas when simply flushing fluid, with no ill effects.

5. I generally use two 12oz bottles of Honda BF when I replace the fluid. Remember that once opened, you should use open-bottle leftover fluid within six months so don't buy a gallon....



I replace fluid in my cars every 3 - 4 years and have never had a problem caused by pushing the caliper pistons inward to install the new, thick pads. If you are a worrier, you could crack-open the bleeder at the wheel when retracting the pistons.

Gravity flushing is possible, but you MUST have patience. It's Slooooooow, in my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
OK but my master cylinder is full of old fluid, if I just pour the new fluid in on top of it won't they mix and contaminate the new fluid before it get though to the bleeder?
 

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You should suck most of that old fluid out of the master cylinder-could use a syringe or turkey baster. Don't let air get in, but no point in flushing all that old oil through the system-waste of time.
 

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Everything in Moderation
2006 CR-V EX, 5MT
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^^^ What Molavi said.

If you are watching the fluid come out of the wheel cylinder as you drain, you will be able to see when the old stuff is gone. It won't be a day/night difference but it is noticeable.

Removing the old BF from the reservoir with the turkey baster first, definitely saves some time.

The objective isn't to remove every drop of the old fluid, rather you want mostly new stuff so that it will perform correctly for the next three years.



Congrats on planning this maintenance BTW, it is often overlooked.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The Motive Bleeder kit arrived today, I have to say I am impressed with the quality, although I did spring for the aluminum caps.

Quality stuff and good customer service, they knew it would be faster to ship USPS to NY and picked up the extra change. Will report back after the job is done.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I got the 1119 Universal Round Adapter as my CRV master cylinder has a 3" opening. The picture shows it as being round but the one that came is square.

 

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Discussion Starter #11
Got my pads changed and went to use the Motive bleeder and there is no way that the 1119 will fit, it's too close to the firewall. Originally they asked what the diameter of the cap was and it was just over 3" so they sent me the 1119. To their credit, when I called Motive, they said that I should have measured the opening (2.5") so they are sending me a 1101 that will work. It already shipped.

Does anyone know what the proper pressure is to bleed a Honda System? Motive says to consult the service manual but I don't have one yet.
 

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Rob, your earlier post was why I asked which Motive master cylinder (MC) cap you were using. If you go to www.s2ki.com and search Motive power bleeders, you can read about the problems we Honda owners (and I include myself in that group) have had using the "universal" cap that Motive is sending you.

As I discovered, Motive makes a specific MC cap for German and British cars. It screws on and seals fine. (I've used that set up without any problems on several Porsches over the years.) However, in my experience (and that of others), Motive's "universal" cap is -- how shall I say this and be fair to Motive? -- "difficult" to fit to a Honda MC, any Honda MC. (Here again, I refer you to sk2i.com.) Despite repeated efforts, I could never get the universal cap to seal properly. The cap leaked air, so I wasn't about to add fluid to the pump device and risk spraying brake fluid in the engine compartment or elsewhere.

One good thing came of my experience, however: I learned how to gravity-bleed a Honda brake system, something I'd never tried before. It's really very simple, if time consuming.

In any case, I hope you have better luck than I did.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Success!

Well I ran up against the same problem the rest of you have, the master cylinder reservoir is too close to the firewall and it was impossible to get a decent fit, I would start losing pressure at 7lbs. It was getting late here in NY so I packed it in for the night but I gave Motive a call. I got Marco on the line and sent him the following photos of my failed attempt.










He apologized and said that they couldn't possibly test every make and model but that they would note it for future reference. He offered to refund my money right away. He suggested I perhaps try a C clamp but I thought that that would crush the cap.

Lying in bed that night the answer came to me.

These are 6" Quick Grips, previously made by Vise Grip, now made by Irwin.

The pads spread the load evenly so there's no danger of cracking the cap. You still have to position the cap just right (I suggested that instead of 90˚ corners on the caps ears that they radius the ears to a semi-circle. That would allow the cap to get closer to the firewall. If you are going to dedicate the cap to your Honda you could even cut them off.) They fit perfectly under the metal bracket the reservoir sits on and I was able to get up to and hold 15psi with no problem. Marco said they are going to put the pics on the website for future reference.







Whilst basking in the glory of my genius I forgot to use the turkey baster to drain the old fluid out so that first wheel took a long time. but after that it was a snap.

Couple of things, the brass to brass fitting on the Motive hose that allows you to change adapters is supposed to be self sealing but give it a few wraps of Teflon tape. Remember that the rubber pad inside the cap goes beveled side down, this gives you leeway to move the cap of center if you need to. And to flush a CRV takes just under 3 of the 12oz bottles that Honda sells it's fluid in.
 

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This post and great idea with the clamps was such an ass-saver for me that I just wanted to say thanks to Recoll Rob.

I added a little more detail on the overall job in this post:
http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/19-maintenance-service/15100-brake-fluid-replacement-using-motive-power-bleeder-4.html#post122963
I passed it all on to Marco at Motive who's going to reference our posts and mentioned giving a discount to the group. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

With the clamps and my modified cap:

grind_motive_1101_adapter.png

it was a sub-hour cakewalk. Next time it will take a half hour.
 

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P.S. Turkey baster with no extension tube is pretty much useless to get all the fluid out of the reservoir. I had to use a cheap gallon bottle vac pump with tubes to really get into the middle and back of the reservoir because of all the little vertical walls inside. Pump is like this:
acc-pump0-02-gl.jpg
A Mity Vac hand pump would have worked fine too.
 
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