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MODERATOR MESSAGE: There have been several very long, rambling Topics about the issue of Oil Dilution in newer CR-Vs on the CRVOC. (Primarily the Turbos, but to a lesser extent, the Normally Aspirated cars also.)

We have attempted to focus responses to the issue HERE, and effectin this Topic. The LINKS in the post below discuss various aspects, like the amount of oil gain, the causes, how to check the orange dipstick, and how to advise Honda Motor that the issue is SERIOUS.

If any related new Topics are created, we will either close them or merge them into this one.

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Yes, we should all be checking our oil fairly frequently. The owner's manual says to check it every time you refuel. However, if you're like many people, the interval is probably longer, if you even check it at all between oil changes.



Here are a number of threads on this forum about this issue. Be warned, some of these threads have gone down rabbit holes of arguing over how to check your oil and/or what higher octane gas does or does not do:

https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/137-2017-present-official-specs-features-etc-gen-5/152938-magically-growing-oil-volume.html
https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/14-problems-issues/168018-2017-lx-1-5l-internal-engine-problem.html
https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/14-problems-issues/170193-potential-major-issue-2017-cr-v-gasoline-gets-into-engine-oil-tank.html
https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172041
https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176681
https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176609
https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/137-2017-present-official-specs-features-etc-gen-5/179122-class-action-lawsuit.html
https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/137-2017-present-official-specs-features-etc-gen-5/157545-what-dipstick.html

There is also a FaceBook group where there is discussion of this issue, if you are so inclined:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1369291403116406/

Here is my story:

We have a 2017 CR-V Touring. It is the fourth Honda car that we have owned; it replaced a 2008 Odyssey that we happily drove for 252,000 miles. We still have an '05 CR-V and an '06 Civic (both over 200,000 miles), and I also have a Honda motorcycle, if that gives you any insight into my opinion on Honda vehicles.

The '17 CR-V is my wife's primary vehicle. She has an 80 mile round trip commute to work every day, and has an aging mother with health problems that she goes to see weekly, adding another 240 mile round trip. We put a lot of highway miles on this car. We've had it just over a year, and have over 31,000 miles on it.

I do all my own maintenance on my vehicles. I enjoy it, and I generally distrust dealers and service shops. On the '17 CR-V, I have done two previous oil changes, in July and November of 2017. They were unremarkable.

I performed the B-1-2 (oil/filter change, tire rotation, cabin and engine air filter replacement) service on 03/13/2018. This time, when draining the engine oil, the oil was VERY thin/watery and splashed everywhere. I've never seen anything like it, and I've done many dozens of oil changes--probably hundreds. The oil smelled strongly of gasoline, and more fluid than expected drained out of the oil pan.

After finding the above threads describing this issue, on 03/15/2018 I had Brookdale Honda in Brooklyn Center, MN look into it. I had a preexisting appointment to have several software updates done and some tire noise checked into. I brought them my used oil filter (which contained some of the diluted oil). They confirmed the oil smelled excessively like gasoline. They contacted the Honda TechLine engineers and were told that Honda is aware of the problem, but there is no fix at this time. The only suggestion is to closely monitor the oil level, and if it increases (presumably due to gasoline dilution), to change the oil.

Some reports on the forums state that using premium gasoline has reduced the problem. Many reports state that the issue is associated with cold weather, so the problem may be less pronounced during the summer months. The first two oil changes I performed in July and November 2017, I did not notice this issue, so this may be true. However, others on the forums that live in warm weather states are reporting the issue as well. Some have also reported being told to drive in "S" mode until the vehicle is fully warmed up, to speed the warm-up process and hopefully reduce the issue.

The service advisor at Brookdale Honda speculated that Honda will eventually issue a powertrain warranty extension and apply whatever fix they come up with for free, but that is pure speculation on his part. Unknown ETA of any kind of fix at this time, and who knows how Honda will address the issue. This 1.5L turbo engine is used in the Civic as well, so they are installing it in two of their best selling vehicles. One would assume it is in their best interests to make this right.

We are now looking at purchasing a Honda Care extended warranty because of this issue. The oil that I drained from the car had almost no viscosity. It was literally like draining water out of the crankcase. I am very concerned about what kind of damage has already been done to the engine at this point, even though it appears to be running fine, and I have had no check engine lights, etc. Whatever damage may have been done may not manifest itself until later in the car's life.

Again, Honda's only advice at this time is to closely monitor you engine oil level, and watch for any increase. I would also encourage you to smell your oil to check for a pronounced odor of gasoline.

Please be aware of this potential issue! I am sure there are more cases of this that are going undetected until a failure of some kind happens. Don't let it happen to your car. Check your oil!

Here is a link to a redacted copy of my service paperwork. Note "Job #4" at the bottom of page 1 and top of page 2. https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtZBj0rDJFy5vHCkQG_5nnG_2-Kk


EDIT: Found this today:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-honda/japans-honda-to-recall-350000-cars-in-china-over-engine-issue-idUSKBN1FW124

Honda is recalling Civics and CR-Vs in China for this exact issue. Apparently, public pressure forces them to respond. The issue there is being described as related to cold weather.

EDIT (thanks Kimbo80!):


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-honda-china-recall/honda-stops-selling-new-cr-vs-in-china-after-recall-plan-rejected-idUSKCN1GE1P8

The Chinese government rejected Honda's original plan to simply recall the vehicles, saying that Honda's plan was 'not enough.' They implied that Honda should consider extending the factory warranty, and Honda has subsequently agreed to halt sales of the CR-V altogether, and may have to halt sales of the Civic as well.

EDIT (thanks RAV4owner for pointing it out, and thanks raigen18 for posting):

Honda Canada sent a notice to its dealers on Feb 28, 2018 regarding this issue (specifically the misfire/oil pressure warning light that it can cause), and asked them to continue to report the issue to help them with their investigation. They also state that for those misfire/warning light cases, they can do an oil/filter change and charge Honda for it.

A screenshot of this notice is attached to this post.

Screen Shot 2018-03-03 at 8.06.01 PM.jpg

EDIT 10-05-2018: Consumers Reports article:

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/honda-cr-v-plagued-by-engine-trouble/


EDIT 10-10-2018: Changed the Title to better reflect the information contained.

EDIT 10-27-2018: Here are links to Honda's TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) for resolution of the heat and oil issues.
TSB 18-114
TSB 18-124
 

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Thanks for the summary of all the Topics.

I STICKIED this post! :Rockin:
 

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911, do you have about 10k miles on the oil from your Nov 17 oil change? It seems from you post you were averaging about 10k per change. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #5
911, do you have about 10k miles on the oil from your Nov 17 oil change? It seems from you post you were averaging about 10k per change. Thanks
dstein,

Yes. I go by the Maintenance Minder.

First oil change was done at 10,841 miles, with 10% oil life remaining.
Second oil change was done at 20,783 miles, with 15% oil life remaining.
Third oil change was done at 30,874 miles, with 15% oil life remaining.

Most of this vehicle's miles are highway miles. Very, very few short trips. The grocery store, etc. is a 10 mile highway round trip for us. Very little stop & go traffic, either. It gets to fully warm up on virtually every drive.
 

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Did you ever think that maybe 10,000 + miles between oil changes is a little much? Curious if changing the oil at like 6000 miles would help the situation, maintenance minder or not that's still a lot of mileage between oil changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Did you ever think that maybe 10,000 + miles between oil changes is a little much? Curious if changing the oil at like 6000 miles would help the situation, maintenance minder or not that's still a lot of mileage between oil changes.
If you are positing that 10,000 miles between oil changes is, in general, too many miles, that is a discussion for another thread (and has, in fact, been discussed plenty).

As far as whether it is related to this issue, I don't know for certain, but I doubt it. Regardless, I am maintaining the vehicle per Honda's specifications, and the issue is present. If they find that the mileage between oil changes is contributing to the issue, perhaps part of their fix will be to change the MM algorithm for calculating oil life.

The 2008 Odyssey that I mentioned in the OP (the one with 252,000 miles on it, that was traded in running perfectly fine for this CR-V), was also maintained following the MM oil life monitor, and also had oil changes nearly 10,000 miles apart.

EDIT: We'll see how the issue continues. I may be changing oil every 1,000 miles, depending on how quickly the gas contaminates it.
 

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Well, this is very interesting. Over the past year I have purchased two new Honda’s, a ‘17 Civic Touring and a ‘18 CRV EXL. The Civic purchased last year has just over 11K miles on it. The CRV I just purchased has only 250 miles on it. I purchased the 100K Hondacare extended warranty for each.

After reading all I can find about this oil dilution issue, I went to the garage and checked both vehicles.

First the CRV - oil looks like new oil, clean, with no sign of contamination - pretty much what I expected. What I did not expect to see was oil on only about a quarter inch of the end of the dipstick... not between the dots. Seems low to me.

The Civic had its first oil change recently at just over 10K miles (about half those miles were long distance road trips), so there is a little over a thousand miles on the new oil. When I checked the oil level is at the top of the orange piece of the dipstick and the oil is dark and has a gasoline odor. Not what I expected for so few miles since the oil change.

So, both vehicles are going to the dealer on Monday... the CRV to have its oil level checked, and the Civic, well, to discuss this concern about oil dilution.

I have owned several Honda’s in the past and they have proven to excellent products. We’re older now and I have spent considerable money purchasing what may be our last new cars. I sure hope I did not make a mistake choosing Honda.
 

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Have been driving a new '18 CR-V EXL for just over a month. 950 miles and just checked the oil after reading some of this. It's showing about halfway between the upper dot and the top of the orange measuring gauge on the dipstick. I remember checking it before leaving the dealership and it was really close to the top dot but I can't remember if it was slightly above like it is now. Will keep checking. Can't say I smell anything besides normal oil smell and there is nothing unusual smelling when I drive.
 

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Could the possible dilution occur when the motor is off?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Could the possible dilution occur when the motor is off?
At this point, I don't think anything can be ruled out. No one yet knows the cause.

I changed the oil last Tuesday (5 days ago). After changing it, it was right at the top 'full' mark. I checked the level on Friday morning after the car sat all night in the garage. It was about halfway between the 'full' mark and the top of the orange plastic piece. Today (Sunday) it is at the top of the orange plastic piece.

The car has been driven about 400 miles since the oil change.

I ordered a Fumoto valve today, to make my upcoming frequent oil changes easier.

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, this is very interesting. Over the past year I have purchased two new Honda’s, a ‘17 Civic Touring and a ‘18 CRV EXL. The Civic purchased last year has just over 11K miles on it. The CRV I just purchased has only 250 miles on it. I purchased the 100K Hondacare extended warranty for each.

After reading all I can find about this oil dilution issue, I went to the garage and checked both vehicles.

First the CRV - oil looks like new oil, clean, with no sign of contamination - pretty much what I expected. What I did not expect to see was oil on only about a quarter inch of the end of the dipstick... not between the dots. Seems low to me.

The Civic had its first oil change recently at just over 10K miles (about half those miles were long distance road trips), so there is a little over a thousand miles on the new oil. When I checked the oil level is at the top of the orange piece of the dipstick and the oil is dark and has a gasoline odor. Not what I expected for so few miles since the oil change.

So, both vehicles are going to the dealer on Monday... the CRV to have its oil level checked, and the Civic, well, to discuss this concern about oil dilution.

I have owned several Honda’s in the past and they have proven to excellent products. We’re older now and I have spent considerable money purchasing what may be our last new cars. I sure hope I did not make a mistake choosing Honda.
My parents are in the market for a new vehicle this spring. After seeing/driving/riding in ours, and after it won SUV of the year and pretty much universal praise in the automotive press, they were very seriously considering a CR-V.

They are now looking at other vehicles, until/unless Honda gets this fixed before they purchase.

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Discussion Starter #15
Have been driving a new '18 CR-V EXL for just over a month. 950 miles and just checked the oil after reading some of this. It's showing about halfway between the upper dot and the top of the orange measuring gauge on the dipstick. I remember checking it before leaving the dealership and it was really close to the top dot but I can't remember if it was slightly above like it is now. Will keep checking. Can't say I smell anything besides normal oil smell and there is nothing unusual smelling when I drive.
We have never smelled anything unusual while driving.

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Document, document, document. Pictures, letters, receipts, even conversations if your state has a law that allows one party recording.
 

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Could the possible dilution occur when the motor is off?
It is possible for injectors to leak after engine shut-down and that could allow gas to reach the sump. But the OBD-II system in all modern engines monitors fuel system pressure drops that would accompany this problem and will trigger an check-engine light if it occurs. So, no check engine light, no pressure drop, no fuel contamination after shut down.
 

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OBD-II monitors fuel pressure when the engine is off.....huh, did not know that. Learn something new every day. Wonder what that DTC is?
 

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I Have been driving a 2017 CR-V EX for one year and driven 8550 miles and just checked the oil after reading some of this. It's 1 inch above the upper mark and reeks gas smell. I was just at the dealer 2 weeks ago for state inspection and asked service adviser to check oil level and they checked and topped all fluids but nothing was mentioned about high oil volume. I will call dealer to set up an appt. I am now concerned if any damage to engine already occurred. I like to keep my cars for over 10 years and this is worrying.
 
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