Valve cleaning on DI engines to prevent buildup.. "yes" or "no"

12450 Views 18 Replies 13 Participants Last post by SnakeCharmer, Oct 6, 2020

mobry

Discussion Starter · Feb 7, 2019

Several videos on youtube exist regarding a product (CRC intake valve and turbo cleaner) that some are using to mitigate possible valve corrosion and costly cleaning down the road due to the direct injection system. I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are regarding this as a preventative maintenance and if anyone actually does this.

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mnestrud

· #2 · Feb 8, 2019 (Edited)

mobry said:
Several videos on youtube exist regarding a product (CRC intake valve and turbo cleaner) that some are using to mitigate possible valve corrosion and costly cleaning down the road due to the direct injection system. I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are regarding this as a preventative maintenance and if anyone actually does this.

I did some research on this recently and found some information on how Honda balances variables with the earth dreams engine to try and prevent this (and other issues balancing gas, spray pattern, oil, mpg, LSPI and efficiency).

Read this: https://hondakarma.com/data/attachm...da_2.4_L_Direct-Injection_Gasoline_Engine.pdf

Plus watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNBGrvpO05g

Short version: Honda uses beveled valves to allow gas to get up around the seal occasionally and clean it. This means that gas treatments should also help.

Plus there's not massive amounts of earth dreams owners complaining about ruined engines due to carbon buildup.

To answer your question directly, my approach is cautious... The 1.5 is a newish version of the earth dreams and they obviously have had some struggles in the combustion chamber in some cars. That said, I also trust the Honda engineers (I read the whole thing, fascinating stuff) and that their approach may work. My personal decision is to help the beveled valves get clean by using a bottle of bg 44k every other oil change:

BG 44K Fuel System Cleaner Funnel- 2 Cans https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CDMU01Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_IjnxCbX1MRJDH

Let us know what you end up doing!

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az_crv

· #3 · Feb 9, 2019

I must have missed it as I didn't see/hear anything in that old 1.5T youtube video acknowledging the risk of, let alone a solution to, carbon buildup. The hondakarma link didn't work for me.

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crveee

· #4 · Feb 9, 2019

mobry said:
Several videos on youtube exist regarding a product (CRC intake valve and turbo cleaner) that some are using to mitigate possible valve corrosion and costly cleaning down the road due to the direct injection system. I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are regarding this as a preventative maintenance and if anyone actually does this.

DI is too new in hondas to get a relevant survey. You will need a large population of 60k mile and above (when this problem starts to really rear its ugly head) vehicle feedback for for some real data.

mnestrud

· #5 · Feb 9, 2019

az_crv said:
I must have missed it as I didn't see/hear anything in that old 1.5T youtube video acknowledging the risk of, let alone a solution to, carbon buildup. The hondakarma link didn't work for me.

Link updated, thanks! You can see the beveled valves in the video. They don't discuss the technology.

I can't find a static picture of the valves anywhere else.

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avs

· #6 · Feb 9, 2019

mobry said:
Several videos on youtube exist regarding a product (CRC intake valve and turbo cleaner) that some are using to mitigate possible valve corrosion and costly cleaning down the road due to the direct injection system. I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are regarding this as a preventative maintenance and if anyone actually does this.

It helps but not as effective as walnut blast or using picks to scrape off the carbon from the back of intake valves. Italian tune up suppose to help to mitigate carbon build up, so don’t drive like a granny.

AJbass

· #7 · Feb 14, 2019

Thank you, mnestrud for that very interesting post! I enjoyed reading all of it.

mnestrud

· #8 · Feb 14, 2019

crveee said:
DI is too new in hondas to get a relevant survey. You will need a large population of 60k mile and above (when this problem starts to really rear its ugly head) vehicle feedback for for some real data.

Honda's current Earth Dreams engine technology was released in 2012. There's a large number past 60k.

We're still a few years from the Crv version to get there, but my point is valid in so much as it seems the technology is sound. The blanket statement about Honda DI engines doesn't hold up.

https://hondanews.com/releases/9560623c-fea3-4ae8-93a1-247ca7fd048b?l=en-US

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stball

· #9 · Feb 15, 2019

I have replied to other threads concerning this issue. I have not done any direct injection cleanings on Honda 1.5 litre engines, but have done numerous cleanings on other direct injection engines. I have also disassembled some of these engines and have looked at the valves before and after cleaning. there is definetly a difference. We use a cleaner system from Valvoline for direct injected engine vehicles. The product is introduced through the throttle body, vacuum port, or map sensor port, depending on engine type. There are other products that are similar and probably work as well. I am a little leary about the CRC only because it is in a spray can and would be hard to get into the engine. The key is allowing the cleaner to saturate what carbon is there and then allowing the vehicle to hot soak after running the service. We reccomend it every 30k miles. Once we get enough miles on our 2018 I will perform the service on it.

jbeachy

· #10 · Feb 15, 2019

az_crv said:
I must have missed it as I didn't see/hear anything in that old 1.5T youtube video acknowledging the risk of, let alone a solution to, carbon buildup. The hondakarma link didn't work for me.

The hondakarma link is a downloadable PDF file. Check your browser or phone Download folder

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avs

· #11 · Feb 15, 2019 (Edited)

Valve cleaning on DI engines to prevent buildup.. "yes" or "no"

mnestrud said:
I did some research on this recently and found some information on how Honda balances variables with the earth dreams engine to try and prevent this (and other issues balancing gas, spray pattern, oil, mpg, LSPI and efficiency).

Read this: https://hondakarma.com/data/attachm...da_2.4_L_Direct-Injection_Gasoline_Engine.pdf

Plus watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNBGrvpO05g

Short version: Honda uses beveled valves to allow gas to get up around the seal occasionally and clean it. This means that gas treatments should also help.

Plus there's not massive amounts of earth dreams owners complaining about ruined engines due to carbon buildup.

To answer your question directly, my approach is cautious... The 1.5 is a newish version of the earth dreams and they obviously have had some struggles in the combustion chamber in some cars. That said, I also trust the Honda engineers (I read the whole thing, fascinating stuff) and that their approach may work. My personal decision is to help the beveled valves get clean by using a bottle of bg 44k every other oil change:

BG 44K Fuel System Cleaner Funnel- 2 Cans https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CDMU01Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_IjnxCbX1MRJDH

Let us know what you end up doing!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I don’t think the article mention anything about beveled valves. They added the valve shrouds to the intake valves to increase air flow to better utilize the VTEC.

“Figure 4 shows the shape of the combustion chamber with its shroud, while Fig. 5 shows the change in flow around an inlet valve produced by the shroud.
The shroud is formed on the outer circumference of the combustion chamber inlet valves, and controls the flow approaching the inlet-side sleeve. This makes the flow on the spark plug side the dominant flow, strengthening tumble mainly during low to medium lift, as shown in Fig. 6, thus realizing a high level of flow motion in the VTEC low- speed cam range. “

SnakeCharmer

· #12 · Oct 5, 2020

More than a year has passed since this thread was started. Any updates? Should I? Shouldn't I? (1.5L turbo)

williamsji

· #13 · Oct 5, 2020

SnakeCharmer said:
More than a year has passed since this thread was started. Any updates? Should I? Shouldn't I? (1.5L turbo)

If you spend some time on the Civic forums, where they discuss the 1.5T and the various concerns they try to pre-empt by preventative maintenance in advance..... they have basically concluded that the 1.5T engine internals stay quite clean with no signs of carbon buildup over time. And when queried about this, the chief engineer for the 1.5T engine, taking Q&A at an LA event with Civic owners... stated flatly that they expect no carbon build up in this engine as they designed the valves to slowly rotate over time and they let a small amount of fuel wash up onto the valves as part of normal combustion, which allows the engine to self-clean the classic spot for carbon build up.. around the valve area.

Enough Civic owners have cracked open their engines to perform a walnut shell blow out of carbon... to find... essentially no carbon to be blown out. So.. most Civic owners have changed their tune with the 1.5T and concluded it is pointless to open them up to give them a proper cleaning. As such.. any sort of chemical cleaning would be unneeded as well.

Same thing with oil catch cans, a long time Civic enthusiast staple in the post sales modification crowd. Nope.. waste of time.. as they barely see a tiny amount of oil and oil related sludge in the catch cans. The PCV system on the 1.5T is top notch in both it's primary functions as well as secondary functions too.

Just put top tier gas in and drive!

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Reactions: 1

diyman

· #14 · Oct 6, 2020

Not to disagree.
I use only Top Tier fuel but will use a fuel system cleaner on a regular basis. Can't hurt, not expensive so why not use it.

Reactions: 2

agentl074

· #15 · Oct 6, 2020

I would only do the complete fuel system treatment at your dealer or independent ASE shop. If you've always used Top Tier fuel, you'll likely never have a problem; however, the fuel system treatments can still help.

Tigris99

· #16 · Oct 6, 2020

Fyi this has nothing to do with what fuel you use.

The concerns here are because there is no injectors spraying fuel on the intake valves to keep the carbon from building up.

This goes for all direct injection (not to be confused with direct port injection which cars have been using since the 80s) which the injectors spray fuel directly into the cylinder, not into the head through the intake ports.

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williamsji

· #17 · Oct 6, 2020

Tigris99 said:
The concerns here are because there is no injectors spraying fuel on the intake valves to keep the carbon from building up.

In point of fact, per the chief engineer for the 1.5T at Honda... the engine design does result in fuel wetting the valve area directly... AND slow circular movement of the valves as the engine runs to insure all surfaces of the valves receive periodic wetting with fuel to keep them clean. The chief also stated flat out to Civic owners that they did this specifically to prevent carbon buildup around the valves.

Maybe do more actual research on the 1.5T before simply lumping it in with every other DI engine out there, because they are NOT all the same.

williamsji

· #18 · Oct 6, 2020

agentl074 said:
I would only do the complete fuel system treatment at your dealer or independent ASE shop. If you've always used Top Tier fuel, you'll likely never have a problem; however, the fuel system treatments can still help.

This could be of benefit for the injectors for sure, since they are literally the choke point for fuel moving into the engine combustion cycle. But it is wasted in terms of the valves, as they are self-cleaning by design in this engine.

SnakeCharmer

· #19 · Oct 6, 2020

Thanks for the replies. Time for a beer!

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