Honda CR-V Owners Club Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This true story began back in March of 2006. My wife was the proud owner of a 2003 Honda CRV which we had purchased through a small independent dealership in January 2003. But it was the vehicle that I drove to and from work daily. Just before driving to visit my parents in Florida, I had topped up all fluids and checked that the CRV was good to go. On March 8, 2006 at approximately 6:00 PM we left home and began our journey southward, stopping just outside Dayton, Ohio for our first night's stay. The next day went as planned as we drove down I75. But suddenly the maintenance light appeared, the truck's engine made a few clunking sounds. We immediately exited the intersate at the next off ramp. At the lights, the CRV died. I tried to start it up again. When i finally got the engine started, it sounded bad. It had a high pitched broken racing sound that told me it was miss firing. Just at the next corner, about 100 metres away was a service centre. I drove the CRV there and it died once more just infront of the car bays. We were now in a town called Ackworth, Georgia. For the better part of three days, my wife, daughter, niece, and I were living at this service centre, and sleeping in a small motel by the highway. I contacted Honda Canada Customer Relations about having a diagnostic done at the service centre where we were stuck using the on board system and the diagnostic device that hooks up to it. The diagnostic said it was a sensor. Not a warranty part so we put a new one in. Not the fix. Retest diagnostic. Another sensor not on warranty. Replaced. Not the fix. Again retest. It came back as the timing chain actuator. Not under warranty. So replaced it. It was then that they discovered that the timing chain had jumped out of sync. Once the actuator was replaced the timing chain had been reset. The CRV started and 30 seconds later the chain jumped again. On deeper delving into the engine it was found that the pistons had impact damage and all the valves were bent. At this point I asked the service centre to stop because we were now at a warranty issue. This is where the heart of this story begins, why the CRV broke down to begin with, will Honda Canada be able to help me in the US, where can we go to get it fixed? So, after much debating and no vehicle, my father came up from Florida (8 hours) with a friend. It was Sunday March 12th they had rented a car from the Atlanta Airport and met us at our motel. We continued to travel to Florida. The car was towed to Marietta, Georgia, about 30 - 40 mins south of Ackworth. Honda US said I was on my own in regards to the repair. The dealership, Ed Voyles Honda, had said they won't touch the car until I ok the repair or the warranty office does. For the next week while I was at my parent's place in Florida, I continued to call the dealership service department asking what was happening from a warranty standpoint at their end, to calling Honda Canada Customer Relations and telling my story to reps. I was told that it was my fault the engine broke. I told them that all fluids were at their peak before leaving Canada, and asked why there would be very little oil after driving 1800 Kms. They gave no answer. So we headed back home using the rental to get to Buffalo. My cousin's husband came to pick us up from the Buffalo airport. I spent the next two months arguing and pleaing my case to Honda Canada and Ed Voyles Honda. It was a cycle that wasn't ending. All options that I could think of were being exhausted, including towing the CRV back to Canada, dropping a used engine in it either here or there, and scrapping it all together. Problem was, I was still making monthlies on it. After one last call to the Customer Relations, the manager, Mr. David Arseneau, had me deal strictly with one rep, Jennifer. They decided to ask the engine tech guy at head office what the causes might be. From what I heard, he said it was not a customer fault. The failure was in the lower engine where there would be oil loss, especially if there was no oil in the exhaust or burning off at the upper engine. He recommended that they fix it. So, on May 3, 2006, the CRV was repaired symptomatically, not the root cause. I asked Stephen Pye, my Ed Voyles dealer rep what the repair would entail. He told me that Honda Canada told them to fix the CRV as inexpensively as possible. That meant no lower engine diagnostic and no causal fix. I still had to fly to Atlanta, taxi to Marietta (30 mins.), stay overnight, pick the CRV up, drive one day, stay another night in Ohio, and finally get home. I did this on the May long weekend. Honda did not want to help me out with the costs of five nights of extra hotel fees, rental car, airfare, etc. At least I got the CRV back. However, I was having to put in one litre of oil every two fill ups, which was about 900 kms. I knew this wasn't right. I went to a dealership, close to home, gave the service manager all the paper work I had accumulated from March 2006 to July 2006. I also told him of the oil consumption. He said he would look into it. Nothing happened. I proceeded to have an oil consumption test done in Jan. 2007. and again in March 2007. I spoke again to Customer Relations because just the drive from Marietta, Georgia to Aurora, Ontario, placed the CRV out of warranty. On March 29, 2007, I spoke with Tina at customer relations about the issue facing the CRV and the continued oil loss, the extra amounts paid out on that "vacation", and the fact that with the vehicle no longer under warranty, it was too costly, at my end to pull the engine apart to repair the lower engine, which should have been repaired at Ed Voyles in Marietta, Georgia. Tina asked that I send all the paper work I had. She would speak to the dealership where I had the oil consumption tests done. At the end April 2007, they finally got back to me. Jennifer, who I had dealt with in the past, was now the manager of Customer Relations. She said that they would do no more for me. And as fate would have it, and as much as I continued to have oil changes, and still add oil every two fill ups, in October, this year, it happened once again. The exact same thing on my way to work. I had the CRV towed to the very same Honda dealership the consumption tests were done. I spoke with a different service rep there, by phone, told her all that happened from 2006, and asked her what could she do for us. She said she would call Honda Canada herself to see. She called back asking for all my paper work again because it wasn't on file. Strange, considering the Service manager was the one who copied it right infront of me in August 2006. I said I would drop it off to be copied agian that evening after work. The Service manager met with me, very rudly by his way of speaking to me. I asked that the service advisor write a report about the oil consumption tests and the recommendations he had made in 2007. The manager said "He will do no such thing. I will take of this personally, and no one else." I did not like the sound of that, but was left with no recourse. The CRV was there with the Head off, pistons and valves out, and no drivability to go elsewhere. A week later, after not hearing from the service manager, I placed a call into him. He replied that he was out on a course for some time and had left a message with Customer Relations and they had left a message for him to let me know that Honda Canada was not going to do anything for me. I replied to him that I would contact them on my own to request once more for the proper repair to be done since it wasn't done correctly in the first place. After leaving messages for them to contact me. I finally spoke with a rep, yesterday, Dec. 29, 2008. Do you believe it? I had to continue to follow up every step of the way. They would have ignored me forever if i didn't get a live rep. The rep stated that because the CRV was so far over the warranty kilometers that they would look at the repair. I asked if he had all the paperwork of the history of the vehicle. He did not. I quoted the Ed Voyles Honda invoice in which it stated, "Honda of Canada asked that we make this repair as inexpensively as possible. Therefore we cannot determine if there are any problems with lower end (i.e. crankshaft, connecting rods, or bearings, etc.) The rep said that Honda would never say that. I told him that i had heard it directly from Stephen Pye at Ed Voyles and he said that would be written in his report. When speaking with Jennifer in April/May 2006, she told me that because there may a problem with the lower end, on advise from the tech guy at head office, they would repair the CRV. I did not not know at the time it was to be "as inexpensively as possible" to the further detriment of the operating of the vehicle. Were they solely basing the decision on the kilometers? They didn't say. The rep told me it had gone to management for a decision and they said no. I asked to speak to the manager. He refused to give me access. I asked to speak with someone higher up in the company. He said that they would send me back to Customer Relations. I asked to be transfered to the main switchboard. He refused to do so. When asked why he wouldn'd help a customer speak with someone else, he replied that it didn't matter, no changes would be made to the decision. Now, with no recourse but to take them to court or to expose the folly Honda Canada has made with this situation, I bring myself to writing you all about it in hopes that they would bow to some public pressure, and in the long run help others with similar issues with big car companies and not honouring their agreements and warranties and truly serving the customer well. I hope this story has peaked your interest and gets passed on to the hands that can turn the wheels of big business. It's obvious that customer service ended at 100,000 kms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,724 Posts
Please Limit Your Post To One Thread

I realize you are upset and you want to get your story out here, but when you place identical posts in different categories, it tends to water down the replies. Some people will reply to this thread, others will reply to the other thread and many people don't realize that two threads are running at the same time. You tend to lose continuity and ideas are not reinforced from the other replies.

Please limit your post to one thread.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
sorry, i dont want to sound negative. please dont take it that way
without knowing the history of the vehicle, i and every one reads this will not be able to offer you any advise.
you said you bought his vehicle is 2003; i assume new, but you didnt say.
what are your maintenance practices; you didnt say.
the fact that first shop (not a Honda Dealer) blundered the repair jinksed any chances for any help at the corporate level. (you should have sued the shop who did the original shoddy work)
you described the sound that the engine made when it died the very first time. that should have been a red flag in your mind that something serious happened, some metal part broke. instead, you let them change sensors.
on US spec Hondas, (should be same for Canada) the timing chain should be replaced at 120,000 miles. i realize your CR-V was no where near that mileage. but, the chain jumped probably because the cam(s) seized from lack of oil. i suspect (again not knowing your maintenance habits) that the engine was burning or leaking oil already, and with all day driving, you starved the top end of oil.
Again, im not trying to pass judgment on you, but certainly you have a very rare case of premature engine failure that is probable not the fault of Honda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
That's a sad story......

Don't expect Honda to take care of it for you. I think your stuck with eating the cost on the new repairs or be prepared to wait months or even years for any kind of legal solution.

I have a feeling you won't be buying another Honda after all the problems and lack of service.

I do think it's a good idea that you are posting your story so others can learn from it. As for posting it a couple times to be sure that most members read it is a good idea; but like someone already said, don't expect all the responses in one happy easy to find thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,724 Posts
Wow! You have a situation.

I think you have reached the classic stone wall! I hate to say this but I think your only recourse would be to take legal action and that may be shaky at best. But....

Your story has some interesting facets that may work in your favor:

The fact that you went to the non Honda service center first is not good. But you did contact Honda of Canada. Now in one paragraph or less, what did they tell you? Did they authorize you to have the non-Honda place to repair it? Or did they tell you to get it towed to a Honda dealer?

I don't understand why the various things being changed were not under warranty but when the valve damage occurred it was. Who decided what was under warranty and what was the mileage when this occurred?

Next thing that seems fishy (not with your story but Honda's reaction). You got all this damage and all these problems. Now either you fix frigging thing or you don't. You don't just fix part of it. So if any of it was under warranty jurisdiction why wasn't all of it under the warranty? Do you have written evidence of this "repair this as cheap as possible"?

I think you have been given a raw deal. I also think that Honda is not going to do damn thing for you, so at this juncture legal action may be your only recourse. That sounds good in theory but in practice it may be continuing down the road of this nightmare. It certainly would not hurt to have a chat with a lawyer, but you have some confounding problems. The non Honda place mostly. But I still don't understand this we will fix some of the problem. If it was a good will case, I could see them saying; Hey look you have potentially $5000 in damage. We will pitch in $3000 and you cover the rest. AND FIX THE WHOLE DAMN PROBLEM. That fix part of it just sounds weird as hell to me. Either it is covered or it is not covered. You may just want to consider court action. But also before you go that route try to get a handle on what you are going to win. The vehicle is 6 years old, you may go through a lot of headaches and end up with a 6 year old vehicle with another half assed repair job.

Now if you are only seeking revenge.... There are a lot of Honda forums in the world. I don't want to criticize your writing style, but you make Tolstoy look like a piker. Cut your story down to something readable by the average person. Remember, we didn't screwed, you did, so we don't exactly share your passion. I can see the keys on your keyboard smoking, but you got to admit it is a bit long. So make us mad, but don't put us to sleep. Cut it down and break it up into some paragraphs and put a thread (only one per site) out there on everything you can find. Check out Edmunds, I think they have a place to gripe about poopy deals. Send letters to your consumer affairs department in your local government. You won't get any cash but at least you may get some satifaction by smearing their name.

Good luck to you and keep us posted, but shorter. Welcome to the club and I hope things work out better for you.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
I refuse to even finish reading that. Even my girlfriend sitting next me to said "what the hell is that???".

Please break that down into at least 5 paragraphs... :rolleyes:




From what I've read it seems like you are going to have a tough time getting help from Honda anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
A Positive Experience with AHM Owner Relations

I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

I have a 1st Gen and was getting a differential noise at 133k. Immediately, I knew the diff was gone and brought it to local Honda store (Joyce Honda) for a diagnosis and confirmed the diff needed replacement. They quoted me over $2k to replace the diff. Before I agreed, I contacted AHM Owner Relations dept, presented my case, along with all of my documented maintenance records for rear diff services using OEM fluid. My vehicle was 97,000 and 4 years over the warranty limits and AHM proposed a split with me; they buy the parts, and I agree to the labor at the dealership. I happily agreed.

It was at the end of the conversation that I revealed that I worked as a Dist Parts & Svc Mgr for another car company and was astounded at a proposal for goodwill that far out of warranty. I was impressed, and wrote them a nice thank you note.

Thank you AHM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
what a story!

like all the other members said, please use paragraphs!!
It took some time to read the hole thing, I don't think they'll help you any further.
My advice up to this point: fix the car and sell it, get rid of your nightmare as soon as possible and if I we're in your shoes say Bye bye Honda forever..
This is the criteria of someone who currently is enjoying a Honda product.
 

·
MECP Audio Expert
Joined
·
2,076 Posts
I wont even begin to read this. I can tell by the responses that you are prob one of "those" customers that I get at my work. Uneducated, quick to blame, and wont apologies when they are proved wrong.

So not to seem to much like a dick, as an example, customer A returns the after a perfect install of whatever.

Cust: "My windshield is broken, you did it. I want a new one and a rent a car and a manager NOW"

Me: "It was like that when you brought it to us, I personally did the work myself, and we worked on the radio, not the windshield, how does that happen? No satellite antenna, gps, nothing."

Cust: "you did it, it wasn't there until you touched it"

Me: check paperwork...."oh, here it is, on the pre-install checklist, it was there, and you signed the sheet before and after stating that it was there, and you got a copy before with the quote, and a new copy after we worked on it with a post checklist and your final receipt........."

"Oh" .....and then they walk away without saying more, after yelling, and looking like an ******* and ruining my day.

Or better yet something brakes 6 months after I do an install, no recipt to prove I did it at all, and when I ask some regular info questions, I find out that some cousins brothers uncles boyfriend that is a mechanic or electrician added something in, or changed something, and voided my warranty anyway, but they expect me to fix the crap some other guy caused, for free. NOPE, not on my watch in my shop Buddie!

Anyway, I wrote a lot on purpose, and wasn't it easier to read with the grammatical arrangement of words in these sentences?
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top