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Worried - strong vibration/rumble above 70 MPH

51K views 48 replies 19 participants last post by  MJSEARS 
#1 ·
A new problem popped up today, the most worrying thus far. I usually drive in fairly congested areas, so I seldom go very fast. But this weekend, we went away and had a chance to drive it at higher speeds on the highway for an extended time. The car exhibits a very strong vibration accompanied by a low-frequency rumble that starts at about 72 MPH. It happens pretty abruptly - you hit 72MPH and it starts, and gets stronger up to 75 (I didn't go faster than that, the vibration was too much, and made me nauseous. It's the kind of low frequency rumble you can feel) Below 72 it's OK. It seems to be directly related to the throttle - it's worse if the throttle is open (foot on the gas). If I lift off and coast, it diminishes substantially even if the speed is above 72. It shakes me, the door and the door mirror, but not the steering wheel. I've never felt anything like this in any car. (I'm very sensitive to tire imbalance, and had to tackle that problem many times, so I don't think it's that. Made sure the new tires were mounted with a Roadforce machine) Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
 
#2 ·
Another day of driving, and I can narrow things down a bit - it seems that the door is the source of both the low frequency rumble and the vibration. Is that possible? Does anyone know which speakers the active noise control uses, and where they are?
 
#5 ·
I still have a high freq vibration in mine, it starts at around 60 on up. I had the wheels and tires replaced at the dealer, no fix! I have about 3,000 miles on it now. I'm sure it's in the drive line. It varies around 2,000 rpm. I've had two different friends drive it, both are experienced mechanics. They both agree with me that it's in the CVT transmission. I'm going to give it a few more miles then take it to a different dealer. This dealer agrees that the vibration is there, but is normal! I have no other complaints with the vehicle. A AWD touring model.
 
#8 ·
Whenever a dealer tech says a problem is "normal", then the appropriate response is to walk to the sales floor, and ask to take one of the same trim for a test drive. When the other one doesn't have the noise, go get the tech and demonstrate this.

Techs hate troubleshooting issues like this because it's time-consuming and doesn't pay well. (Warranty doesn't pay for diagnostics by the hour...)
 
#9 ·
You could also call Honda Customer Service and see if you can open a case file and request an appointment with you area District Service Manager. They should be able to tell you when he/she will be at your local Honda Dealer, at which time you can bring your vehicle in to the Service Dept and ask to have him/her look at it.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I just dropped off my CRV at the dealer. The service director (awesome guy - 40 years experience with Honda) drove my car and then another CRV and agreed that it's not normal. The other CRV did not exhibit the vibration. There is apparently a bulletin about unbalanced rear driveshafts, so that may be it. I'm not happy that this is happening on a brand-new car, but at least they acknowledge that it needs to be fixed. This is the most serious of the problems I've had thus far. I do like the car, but the level of Honda's quality control dropped noticeably. The CRV has been the most troublesome of my 7 Hondas, and I haven't even owned it one month. (on the other hand, I'm really impressed with the Civic they gave me as a loaner. Fun car, if a bit cramped.)
 
#16 ·
It's the center shaft that runs from the transmission to the rear of the car. We discussed balancing it, but I insisted on a new driveshaft. This is a brand new car, and I want every part of it to be properly made, not kludged together. I don't want anything that might become unbalanced again in the future, no matter how remote that possibility may be. Apparently the unbalanced shafts are a manufacturing defect. (there's a bulletin about it)
 
#19 ·
Just started @ ~500 miles

Hey all, just purchased our 2017 CR-V and really like the car. It's primarily my wife's car, so I haven't gotten to drive it much since we picked it up last weekend, until yesterday, and noticed kind of a "roar" or vibration that starts above about 67 MPH. Having looked at some other threads on things to look for, I checked the tire pressure and they were 3-4 lbs over-inflated, but not as bad as some people have experienced. I also tried to put the car into "S" to increase the engine RPMs to see if that changed anything, but I don't think it made a difference. Neither did driving faster (closer to 80 MPH).

Anyway, I took it back into the dealer today (Frank Ancona in the KC Metro area, whom I have been impressed with so far). The service advisor and I went for a drive and he said he could notice it as well and that it wasn't right. He wasn't aware of any other 2017s having experienced this problem, or any bulletins that had been published. We took another 2017 for a drive (a Touring model, not that this should matter), and didn't experience the vibration, so something is up.

The 2017 we drove had the Hankook tires, mine has the Bridgestones :( I read about balancing the driveshaft, and mentioned this forum to him as well. He said that based on what he knew, that kind of made sense, but didn't want to go tearing into a brand new car w/o speaking to the Honda techs in California first on Monday AM (which I definitely appreciated).

So at this point, I'm at least glad to know that the noise wasn't there previously, and that I'm not crazy :) As far as what to do next, we'll see what the Honda techs say... he thought we could try swapping the wheels and tires from another model on the lot that has the Hankooks to eliminate that as a potential issue, but we're not thinking it seems like a wheel/balance issue. Whatever the case, I'll likely be taking it back in for service this week, after only 500 miles.

Anyone else have any recent experience with this issue? I don't know the exact date of manufacturing, but supposedly we picked it up right after it came in on the truck a little over a week ago... he said they can't keep them in stock. We do really like it, so hopefully this is a minor issue that gets resolved quickly. Thanks in advance for any replies!
 
#20 ·
Hi all, new CR-V owner and new to the forum. Wondering if I have this problem as well. I noticed the noise after around 500 miles or so (my wife drives it everyday, and this was the first time I'd driven since we picked it up last weekend). It doesn't change pitch or grow louder, really, with changes in speed. It just seems to come on around 67-68 MPH. Anyone else still experiencing this problem? I saw mention of a bulletin in this thread, but the service advisor wasn't aware of anything. He said he'll be calling the Honda techs in CA on Monday AM. Should know more after that.
 
#49 ·
Had the same problem grindy rumbly sound with my 2017 CRV I bought used exactly at 68 MPH and higher rates of speed. After a bunch of monkeying around (changing out tires etc) they switched out the rear drive shaft and it seemed to reduce the issue slightly. I guess I may have gotten a modestly more balanced drive shaft out of the deal...
 
#21 ·
Please let me know what you find out, mine has had the same vibration at that speed since new, it now has over 5,000 miles. The local dealer hasn't been much help, their head technician says they all vibrate! I'm going to try another dealer this summer. Otherwise the vehicle has been perfect, great mileage, etc.
 
#22 ·
First off, sorry for posting roughly the same thing twice. It didn't look like the first post ever went up, so after a day I tried again... Obviously they are both there now. Maybe I can delete my second one.

Yeah, since the first thing we did was take another CR-V on the lot for a drive, they acknowledged fairly quickly that there was an issue with mine. They did call back today and we dropped the vehicle off for a loaner this evening. He already prepped us for the possibility that they'd have to hang onto it through Wednesday. He said they'd be "swapping out things" and then testing and calling back into Honda techs with the outcome. Swapping out wheels and tires is fine, but I'm not wild about anything more invasive and they didn't go into details about what that would be. Maybe that involves swapping out the driveshaft that was previously mentioned.

Anyway, that is all I know for now. I can see why dealers aren't wild about troubleshooting these types of things with Honda techs, as the SA stated that it takes about 45 minutes to an hour on hold before they can get through to anyone. That seems borderline ridiculous to me, but it's obviously a very popular vehicle (with a few kinks to work out).
 
#23 ·
My service advisor definitely said there was a TSB about unbalanced driveshafts. They replaced it on my car and it's greatly improved. Yes, the CR-V isn't as smooth as a Lexus and it doesn't come close to meeting the NVH goals Honda publicly set for itself, but the driveshaft vibration was severe and would be unacceptable on any car.

(From the Honda press release: "In developing this new CR-V, our engineers didn't look only at other products in the class, they benchmarked luxury-class models like the BMW X3 for ride quality, steering, body control and NVH.")
 
#24 ·
Thanks... if you come across a part number or TSB #, I'd definitely appreciate the info to pass along!

My prior cars have been a '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee, '10 Audi S4, '06 Acura TSX, and '01 Toyota Solara. Honda doesn't have the vault-like feeling that the others have, but fortunately my experience with the Acura previously was that it didn't have the mechanical and electronic quirks that the Jeep and Audi had (wish I had kept that car). But I actually felt that it was the most engaging to drive, and the CR-V feels that way to me as well. And at this stage of my life, I just want things to work :) That's the main reason why I went back to Honda, and I hope that aside from this one issue, it will be bulletproof for years to come.
 
#25 ·
I went to the dealer today to get the first oil change, and recheck the vibration problem. Their head tech agreed that it still had the vibration but they weren't aware of any service bulletins! I specifically ask them to see if they had heard of any! They rechecked the balance of all the tires (third time) everything checks ok. I'm sure with the help of this forum and the internet we will be able to get these fixed. Thanks for the updates.
 
#26 ·
Quick update... dealer called me back today. They wanted to clarify when I heard/felt the vibration. I stated that I noticed it any time I'm driving around 70 MPH or higher. They said they could reproduce it on some roads, but not others, so I directed them to a specific highway that we drive on all of the time that they had not driven on yet. Anyway, I don't know if that will make a difference and it's discouraging that they don't experience this all of the time, so it doesn't seem like we're on the same page.

They're keeping it for another day to try and do some more troubleshooting. They said they had put the car up on the lift, brought it up to speed, and used stethoscopes to try and hear the vibration, but weren't able to reproduce using that method and thought maybe the car needed to be under a load. They have not changed out any parts, and kind of made it sound like they were at the end of the road, but would give it another try tomorrow. We'll see what happens.
 
#27 · (Edited)
One of the classes I taught at GM and later at a college was NVH diagnosis. That is "Noise, Vibration and Harshness". At the manufacturers we were concerned about this as it was a customer satisfaction issue. All car makers developed and taught these classes over time.

In the class room I would set up a car with a very slight imbalance in the drive shaft. In fact I would use an ordinary hose clamp on the drive shaft. Then I would put a tire way out of balance on the same car and have the technicians then try to find the source of the vibration. They would balance the tire first as the first thing they always did was to balance the tires. It would not fix the cars vibration. Two ounces of weight on a tire did not come close to the vibration of one hose clamp on the drive shaft. Also the sensation of the drive shaft imbalance is very different than a tire. This is due to the rotational speed of the drive shaft being very different than the tire (much faster) and the harmonic frequency is much different as a result. This vibration is transmitted though the structure of the vehicle and will cause different harmonics to come into play. Metal structures do have harmonics,, just like a string on a musical instrument. Car designers factor this in and its why one can find strange weights mounted on rubber stuck around on some cars. They are technically called "Mass Dampeners" and are used in cars, buildings, space crafts, and so on. You can read about them here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper

As for balancing a drive shaft or just changing its mounting position, that is perfectly normal and acceptable way to fix a vibration. Drive shafts are balanced at the factory as a unit. But all rotating parts have "run out", that is they may not be perfectly centered. So the mounting holes might be a few thousands of an inch off. The same goes for the flange that they are bolted to. So what we normally do is the shaft maker will mark the "high spot" on the shaft and the flange maker marks the "low spot" on the flange. You mount the drive shaft on the flange so that its slight offset is the opposite of the flanges and they cancel out each other. This is normal and is on tens of millions of vehicles. In the industry we have done this for decades. Its a common "fix" for when someone mounted the shaft improperly at the factory. Giving you a "new" driveshaft is no better a fix than correcting one that was just bolted on in the wrong position.

I have demonstrated this stuff hundreds of times and seen looks of amazement on students faces as we took a vibrating beast of a car and made it super smooth. Boo-boo's happen when they build cars. Don't freak out over it, let the dealer fix it. If your dealer doesn't fix it then find one who can. Some people are much better at doing this sort of work than others, I know...I worked teaching them!

My favorite class was one in which one session I had the service manager from a dealer who had tried to fix my Chevy Blazer with a vibration. They tried four times, balancing the tires over and over. The day he came to class I brought in my vehicle. We found and fixed the vibration in well less than 30 minutes using a vibration frequency meter, a work sheet with rotational speeds and frequencies and a hose clamp placed on the drive shaft. He was left speechless.

A word of caution, based on years of experience in the real world: Once you decide your car has a vibration, no matter what fix they do to it you may still "feel" it. Its human nature. All cars vibrate, some just more so than others. Once you have decided yours has a problem that no one can fix you will always "feel" it. The truth is hard for some to accept but no one will likely ever remove 100% of the vibration from your vehicle. There are too many moving parts and forces to totally filter out. One's best hope is to minimize them and for the driver to learn which ones are truly "normal". I know. Been there and done that and I know vibrations too well. On my own car I know where if vibrates but I finally told myself that if I had to really concentrate and drive it one certain way on one special road....it really wasn't a problem...it was me looking for a problem.
 
#28 ·
Thanks for the insight, hans. I can see where someone might not ever think the vibration has totally gone away, but hoping we'll have something to try at least.

We got the car back yesterday (nothing was changed), and we're waiting for Honda to investigate with a few more vehicles while we continue to drive ours. The SA said they got some more vehicles in on the truck the other day, and sure enough, some of them had the same issue. However, they're only noticing the issue with the EX-L models. So I don't know if maybe all of the EX-Ls are made at the same plant, or on the same line, and maybe there is some machine that is outside the allowable tolerance? He also said they put the wheels/tires on from a touring model they had on the lot and it didn't help the issue.

I don't think I'll hear much more in the mean time. They said they'd stay in touch with us, but if I don't hear anything by the end of next week, I'll probably call back to see if there's anything new. While we don't have a fix right now, I am getting the sense so far that the dealer and/or Honda is acknowledging the issue.
 
#29 ·
Good luck with your problem. I have a Touring, not the EX-L so I can't speak to that issue. I have no unusual vibrations at any speed on mine after several thousand miles. One of the things you state is telling, it happens at higher speeds. There are many available resources to help pin down this problem. You can find them on-line, I will attach a link to one.
There is a science to finding vibrations as it is math related. You work from the speed where it is noted and then calculate the frequency. From that you can start figuring out if it is tires, drive line, transmission or engine. Drive shaft vibrations, as some have reported, show up at lower speeds due to the shafts spinning much faster than the wheels. Tire/wheel vibrations normally occur at higher speeds, like 60-70 MPH. That speed varies with the size of the wheels. This is due to a natural frequency in the springs of the suspension.

What a really good and experienced Tech will do is to complete a work sheet noting the conditions and speed where the vibration occurs. From there the Tech can make frequency measurements and that will then allow them to match their rotational speeds to the frequency which will help point them to the part that is rotating at that speed. When you get it fixed please let me know what they found.

Linky: https://www.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/97152/fe812a48
 
#30 ·
I checked the service record for my car, and while there isn't a TSB number, the tech wrote that he "found problem on the interactive network", (which i guess is Honda's tech intranet) and that it recommended shifting the mounting position. They tried that, and it made the problem worse. Then they replaced the entire drive shaft, which finally fixed the problem. My model is also an EX-L, so that jibes with what bmoff84 wrote.

I have to say that I'm quite disappointed in Honda's QC on this car. There were several items that had to be fixed, the driveshaft being the most serious. That's more problems than any Honda I've had, and I've been buying them since the late 80's. Moreover, Honda never sent me a new car/dealer satisfaction survey — I suspect they know that these early cars are problematic, and want to avoid a black mark on their quality ratings. But I'm a Consumer Reports subscriber and fill out the auto survey every year, so they'll get the bad news one way or another.
 
#35 ·
Interesting on the EX-L observation. I'm guessing that EX-L is the volume seller as it seems the dealer can't keep them in stock. Either that, or Honda knows they have a problem and so they're aren't producing at full volume. Not sure that makes sense either, as it seems you'd just stop production if you thought you had a serious production problem (I don't know if they'd consider this to be "serious", though). Anyway, I suggested looking into the driveshaft several times, but I think they're waiting on something more definitive from Honda. Or they intend to wait it out until I go away.

We haven't really had any other problems yet, knock on wood. Although we haven't even turned over 1,000 miles yet. We were out driving around tonight and I thought I heard a lot more turbo "whine" than normal, but not to the point I was really concerned. Coincidentally, I DID get my satisfaction survey the other day, and just got it filled out. My survey definitely reflected the experience we've had with this issue so far.
 
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