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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There is an issue developing with a limited number of 2004 and 2005 Elements where the cooling systems have become corroded internally and are exhibiting poor heat / no heat from the HVAC system.

This particular issue DOES NOT AFFECT THE CR-V.

What should concern any Honda owner though, is the manner in which certain levels of Honda management and Customer Relations are dealing with this situation.

The problem with the corrosion is being attributed to a batch of poorly formulated coolant that was installed at the assembly plant. This poor quality coolant, over time, allowed the corrosion to occur.

Unfortunately, the time frame involved means that quite a number of vehicles affected are just out of the 3/36 warranty and many of these owner’s are being denied warranty resolution to the problem.

I feel this is an unacceptable attitude on the part of Honda, and would like to really stir things up at American Honda’s corporate headquarters.

I would appreciate it if you would take the time to review the draft letter that I have created, and review the attached links to become familiar with this issue.

If you feel, as I do, that Honda should be more receptive to the needs of their customer’s who have had obvious assembly-related defects occur that so severely impact the value of their Honda vehicle, please copy this letter, add to it your own list of Honda vehicles that you own or have owned at the bottom and mail it in to Honda. Dick Colliver is the Executive Vice President of American Honda (Sales), and his job is to ensure continued growth in Honda’s market share. I feel he would be very interested in seeing how Honda’s customer’s feel about how they are being treated when something serious goes wrong, especially when it was wrong from the vehicle assembly process.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40695 This first one is the TSB post, you'd need to click on the attachment to see the TSB

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39756

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39662





American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
1919 Torrance Boulevard
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

Dick Colliver
Executive Vice President of American Honda


Sir,

I would like to draw your attention to an issue of which you are probably unaware.

TSB 07-076 which was released on November 28, 2007 addresses an issue where certain Honda Elements can exhibit a poor heating condition. The bulletin addresses this issue as being related to restricted heater cores.

What the bulletin does not address is the root cause of the restriction. It is becoming known through the internet that the root cause of the restriction is internal corrosion of the entire engine cooling system, and that this corrosion is occurring as a direct result of poorly formulated coolant that was installed at the factory.

This corrosion takes a certain amount of time to occur before the poor heating symptom becomes apparent. As a result, a number of affected Element owner’s are being denied warranty assistance as they have exceeded the 3/36 warranty period. Very few of these vehicles have exceeded the 120,000 mile suggested interval for coolant replacement as listed in the owner’s manual.

The fact that Honda appears to be dealing very unfairly with their customers over an issue that is clearly related to a mistake that occurred during vehicle assembly concerns me a great deal. One of the hallmarks of Honda ownership is ‘Peace of Mind’ - knowing that you have purchased a quality vehicle and have a quality company standing behind that vehicle.

While the specific condition of poorly formulated coolant may not directly affect me, the manner in which Honda is dealing with this issue concerns me greatly, and certainly reduces my own ‘Peace of Mind’ in Honda ownership.

I will be very interested to see how rapidly and how fairly Honda moves to resolve this issue. It will have a tremendous impact on my decision to purchase a Honda vehicle in the future – not because mistakes can happen during assembly, but because I would be concerned that I may encounter a similar situation and be denied a fair and equitable resolution from Honda.

“You meet the nicest people on a Honda” was a very successful marketing campaign for Honda a number of decades ago. I would suggest to you that another truth about Hondas is that “People who own Hondas KNOW people who own Hondas”. It has been suggested that one manner in which the customer can get the attention of Honda in a hurry would be to start a word-of-mouth and Internet campaign to actively encourage all Honda owner’s to deliberately return any New Vehicle or Service Satisfaction survey with the scores intentionally marked to reflect ‘Very Dissatisfied’ in all areas.

Would having extremely low JD Power’s Survey scores send an appropriate message?

Sincerely,
 

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Look At The Flat Rate Time On The TSB!

Whoa! 7.6 hours of skilled technician time and I don't suppose they give away the heater core either. Better get a second mortgage on the house! The noisy AWD issue pales in comparison.

The other question in my mind would be, how long until the new heater core plugs up? Will the new antifreeze inhibit further corrosion? Will the existing corrosion tend to slough off over time and plug the new core? Then you get the radiatior and the whole overheating worries with aluminum engines. Wow! What a nasty problem.

Your point about the 120 K change should be a positive argument for beyond warranty coverage. Here is an opportunity for Honda to step up to the plate and show customer appreciation.

Honda Tech, you are going to wake up in the middle of the night feeling the 900 pound grip of Asimo's mechanical hands around your throat....

Again I ask, has Chrysler become a major share holder in Honda?

Excellent wording on your letter.



 

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Discussion Starter #3
Whoa! 7.6 hours of skilled technician time and I don't suppose they give away the heater core either. Better get a second mortgage on the house! The noisy AWD issue pales in comparison.
I don't know if you looked through the posts, but people are being quoted for the repair in the $1,100 - $1,200 range. The thing that really irks me is that owners are being told it's their fault, and that they are the ones who contaminated their cooling systems. One person was told by Honda Customer Relations that "Honda has no problems with their heater cores" two days before the bulletin was released.

The other question in my mind would be, how long until the new heater core plugs up? Will the new antifreeze inhibit further corrosion? Will the existing corrosion tend to slough off over time and plug the new core? Then you get the radiatior and the whole overheating worries with aluminum engines. Wow! What a nasty problem.
If the cooling systems look anything like the one that I posted pictures of, I'd want a new engine and everything related to the cooling system.

Your point about the 120 K change should be a positive argument for beyond warranty coverage. Here is an opportunity for Honda to step up to the plate and show customer appreciation.
This is why I think every person who owns a Honda or is considering one should be concerned and submit a letter. Don't do it to "help out an Element owner." Do it because unless this corporate attitude of penny-pinching at the expense of the owner is checked, you may find yourself faced with a similar situation in the future. Would you ever consider purchasing another Honda if you knew that there was a good chance of being totally screwed over if another mistake occurred at the assembly plant? Mistakes happen. How a company deals with the consequences says a lot about the character of the company.

Honda Tech, you are going to wake up in the middle of the night feeling the 900 pound grip of Asimo's mechanical hands around your throat.....
It would be a lot quicker than the slow death I am currently experiencing. :D

Again I ask, has Chrysler become a major share holder in Honda?
American Honda went through a pretty dramatic corporate restructuring process a few years back. There are a lot of people trying to justify their current existance within the company, and a lot more who are less qualified to perform their current duties than the positions that they held in the past.


I did hear the other day the Nissan and Chrysler are starting to make googly eyes at each other. :rolleyes:
 

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Is this system part of the "power train?"

That doesn't sound like the Honda that I had heard such great things about and why I bought mine. Would be covered under the certified 7/100 power train warranty?

A quick question for Honda Tech about an Accord if there is time:
My friend has a 05 Accord with 80K who's transmission needs major work or replacement (she has no idea what the problem is, just that Honda told her it needs major work). It is obviously out of warranty, but I told her to call Honda because it seems to me that this is a little premature. In light of the above problems, is this still the right thing to do?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That doesn't sound like the Honda that I had heard such great things about and why I bought mine. Would be covered under the certified 7/100 power train warranty?

A quick question for Honda Tech about an Accord if there is time:
My friend has a 05 Accord with 80K who's transmission needs major work or replacement (she has no idea what the problem is, just that Honda told her it needs major work). It is obviously out of warranty, but I told her to call Honda because it seems to me that this is a little premature. In light of the above problems, is this still the right thing to do?

Thanks.
Honda has been pretty forthcoming with providing assistance on out-of-warranty transmissions. It depends on the attitude of the particular zone rep your friend's dealer has as to the extent of the assistance provided.

Honda considers a transmission to have no core value if the unit has been taken apart in the field - meaning you will not find any dealers willing to 'fix' an automatic transmission on site unless it was totally customer pay. If there is any warranty assistance, the trans must be replaced with a Honda reman unit.
 

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There is an issue developing with a limited number of 2004 and 2005 Elements where the cooling systems have become corroded internally and are exhibiting poor heat / no heat from the HVAC system.

This particular issue DOES NOT AFFECT THE CR-V.

What should concern any Honda owner though, is the manner in which certain levels of Honda management and Customer Relations are dealing with this situation.

The problem with the corrosion is being attributed to a batch of poorly formulated coolant that was installed at the assembly plant. This poor quality coolant, over time, allowed the corrosion to occur.

Unfortunately, the time frame involved means that quite a number of vehicles affected are just out of the 3/36 warranty and many of these owner’s are being denied warranty resolution to the problem.

I feel this is an unacceptable attitude on the part of Honda, and would like to really stir things up at American Honda’s corporate headquarters.

I would appreciate it if you would take the time to review the draft letter that I have created, and review the attached links to become familiar with this issue.

If you feel, as I do, that Honda should be more receptive to the needs of their customer’s who have had obvious assembly-related defects occur that so severely impact the value of their Honda vehicle, please copy this letter, add to it your own list of Honda vehicles that you own or have owned at the bottom and mail it in to Honda. Dick Colliver is the Executive Vice President of American Honda (Sales), and his job is to ensure continued growth in Honda’s market share. I feel he would be very interested in seeing how Honda’s customer’s feel about how they are being treated when something serious goes wrong, especially when it was wrong from the vehicle assembly process.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40695 This first one is the TSB post, you'd need to click on the attachment to see the TSB

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39756

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39662





American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
1919 Torrance Boulevard
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

Dick Colliver
Executive Vice President of American Honda


Sir,

I would like to draw your attention to an issue of which you are probably unaware.

TSB 07-076 which was released on November 28, 2007 addresses an issue where certain Honda Elements can exhibit a poor heating condition. The bulletin addresses this issue as being related to restricted heater cores.

What the bulletin does not address is the root cause of the restriction. It is becoming known through the internet that the root cause of the restriction is internal corrosion of the entire engine cooling system, and that this corrosion is occurring as a direct result of poorly formulated coolant that was installed at the factory.

This corrosion takes a certain amount of time to occur before the poor heating symptom becomes apparent. As a result, a number of affected Element owner’s are being denied warranty assistance as they have exceeded the 3/36 warranty period. Very few of these vehicles have exceeded the 120,000 mile suggested interval for coolant replacement as listed in the owner’s manual.

The fact that Honda appears to be dealing very unfairly with their customers over an issue that is clearly related to a mistake that occurred during vehicle assembly concerns me a great deal. One of the hallmarks of Honda ownership is ‘Peace of Mind’ - knowing that you have purchased a quality vehicle and have a quality company standing behind that vehicle.

While the specific condition of poorly formulated coolant may not directly affect me, the manner in which Honda is dealing with this issue concerns me greatly, and certainly reduces my own ‘Peace of Mind’ in Honda ownership.

I will be very interested to see how rapidly and how fairly Honda moves to resolve this issue. It will have a tremendous impact on my decision to purchase a Honda vehicle in the future – not because mistakes can happen during assembly, but because I would be concerned that I may encounter a similar situation and be denied a fair and equitable resolution from Honda.

“You meet the nicest people on a Honda” was a very successful marketing campaign for Honda a number of decades ago. I would suggest to you that another truth about Hondas is that “People who own Hondas KNOW people who own Hondas”. It has been suggested that one manner in which the customer can get the attention of Honda in a hurry would be to start a word-of-mouth and Internet campaign to actively encourage all Honda owner’s to deliberately return any New Vehicle or Service Satisfaction survey with the scores intentionally marked to reflect ‘Very Dissatisfied’ in all areas.

Would having extremely low JD Power’s Survey scores send an appropriate message?

Sincerely,
I've got a 2004 CRV with a heat issue. No leakage, but apparent blockage in the heater core based on heat readings of inlet and outlet hoses. $1300 replacement estimate. New to this forum, but wanted you to know that there may be an issue with the CRVs as well.
 

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The real problem here is Honda putting a 120,000 mile interval coolant change in the owners manual. The anti-corrosion properties of coolant only last 2 to 3 years in ANY car. Never take service intervals from an owners manual verbatum, go by experience and common knowledge.
 
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