New thread as the last one has been retired due to members not obeying the Site Rules and spoiling that thread.
So we've started afresh....
Thanks.
So we've started afresh....
Thanks.
TheDarkKnight
241 - 260 of 622 Posts
First, welcome to the club!! It's unfortunate that many have found their way here this way.
Second, if it was me, I would feel safe taking a 2,000 mile trip in my CR-V with the Fuel Injector issue but that is just me. I also have a great roadside assistance service with my insurance and the means to deal with an emergency (i.e. car rental if needed). I have had the intermittent codes pop up since May - the codes go away for me after a treatment of Techron (so your seafoam may work for you - or not!). What would really suck in your situation, would be the loss of all of those driver assist features (Lane Keeping Assist, cruise control, etc) and safety features (low tire pressure warnings) that are disabled until the code clears.
EDIT'd to add - My MPG has not suffered either, I still am getting in the 35+mpg range.
Third, I believe you're the second P219F code reported here on this site. The other user was able to get their injectors replaced for free under their States (Mass) extended warranty service for emission related items (one of 13/14 states that has those types of laws). I don't know what all the states are but I'm sure @williamsji could let us know - he seems very knowledgeable on the subject of the extended warranty states.
Fourth, If you read through the 600+ posts here AND the prior retired thread on the injector matter, you'll see many posts of users working with their dealer service department and Honda to get some sort of goodwill compensation to cover the cost of the parts (injectors and fuel rail - the most expensive portion) and just having to pay the labor.
Fifth, I'm not aware of any mileage limitations but some here have surmised that if you are under 80k miles, you're in a better position to get some sort of goodwill credit from Honda towards the repair.
Sixth... I have a BlueDriver OBD-II code scanner that I got off of Amazon. It will allow you erase the codes before having to wait for the cars computer to go through, how ever many cycles before the code goes away on your dash on its own. This only is useful if your warning is intermittent like mine and not present ALL the time. If your error is present ALL the time, than no amount of erasing the code is going to help as it will keep popping back up. But, if your code(s) are intermittent...erasing the codes should give you back your driver assist features for your long 2k mile drive.
Good Luck and please come back and follow-up...this place is one of the more extensive places on the internet where this injector issue is being actively discussed (w/good oversite to weed out the misinformation from other sites). Having your data points going forward will help others in the future as this issue continues to be documented. Who knows...maybe Honda themselves looks in on this thread (I hope so!).
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States that have adopted California CARB, including the 8yr/80,000 emissions warranty, are as follows:
CT, DE, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT, WA
New states do hop on board from time to time, so any member who is facing an emissions failure (of which fuel injectors are one in a long list by California of covered components), be sure to check with your state just to be sure whether they have actively adopted California CARB. I think there is a 14th state but which one eludes me at the moment.
Note: California CARB emissions warranty is actually a reintroduction of the old Federal emissions warranty from the 1980s. When the feds paired back the federal warranty, California led the way in restoring the prior long warranty, and even extended it further.
I posted a separate thread on my 2020 CRV (https://www.crvownersclub.com/threa...m/threads/2020-crv-ex-l-2wd-multiple-system-warnings-p0172.239068/#post-1830019) to see if the later Gen 5 had the same issue as the earlier Gen 5. @TheDarkKnight redirected me to this thread.
My symptoms were all the flashing lights, and the P0172 DTC (System Too Rich Bank 1)
I talked to a service advisor at the dealership we bought the car from (Chapman Honda, Tucson AZ) and he asked me only one question "How many miles are on it?" I told him 72,000, "You need fuel injectors" was his answer. He was not worried about checking the car for any other potential issue.
I ordered the parts (06160-5PA-305 injector kit, $665.44). The service advisor's approximation of how much it would cost at the dealership was $1,400 including parts. I am over time and mileage on warranty, so I did not even ask.
Injector kit was backordered with no estimated delivery date, so I put a bottle of Techron fuel injector cleaner through it, and a second bottle on the next tank. My wife drives the car, and there were four total incidents of the issue over the just over three weeks since the first event. The parts arrived a week after I ordered them.
The reason that I am posting to this thread - I did not see anyone talking to the DIY potential for this repair. This is not a particularly difficult install, definitely the kind of thing that a home mechanic can do to save a few bucks. I will admit that it is a scary job as you are opening the engine intake to the outside world and you are working on a high pressure fuel system, but having done it once now, I can tell you it is definitely something a moderately skilled home mechanic can accomplish. It took me about 3.5 hours including the short road test.
I am not a mechanic by trade, but I grew up working on cars, and I do all my own car maintenance. There are no specialty tools required for the job, and you do not have to take a lot of parts off to get to the injectors. The video in post #15 is a great reference that I found very helpful as a starting place, though there are still some details you have to figure out yourself. He does not show replacing the high pressure fuel line, which is a part of the kit in the part number above.
The only tricky part there is the sound insulation foam for the high pressure fuel line is hard to get out around the lines, and the bolt that holds the high pressure fuel line to the head is easily dropped on to the engine in to a place that is hard to get to. A magnetic 10mm socket would be perfect for this job. I used cyanoacrylate glue to hold the bolt into the socket for installation.
The fuel pipe (that distributes fuel to the 4 injectors, 16011-5AA-305) does not need to be replaced when replacing the injectors. All of the connections to the injectors have seals. The high pressure fuel line (16012-5PA-315, part of the injector kit) that goes from the high pressure fuel pump to the fuel pipe must be replaced. It is a one-time-use item according to Honda.
My symptoms were all the flashing lights, and the P0172 DTC (System Too Rich Bank 1)
I talked to a service advisor at the dealership we bought the car from (Chapman Honda, Tucson AZ) and he asked me only one question "How many miles are on it?" I told him 72,000, "You need fuel injectors" was his answer. He was not worried about checking the car for any other potential issue.
I ordered the parts (06160-5PA-305 injector kit, $665.44). The service advisor's approximation of how much it would cost at the dealership was $1,400 including parts. I am over time and mileage on warranty, so I did not even ask.
Injector kit was backordered with no estimated delivery date, so I put a bottle of Techron fuel injector cleaner through it, and a second bottle on the next tank. My wife drives the car, and there were four total incidents of the issue over the just over three weeks since the first event. The parts arrived a week after I ordered them.
The reason that I am posting to this thread - I did not see anyone talking to the DIY potential for this repair. This is not a particularly difficult install, definitely the kind of thing that a home mechanic can do to save a few bucks. I will admit that it is a scary job as you are opening the engine intake to the outside world and you are working on a high pressure fuel system, but having done it once now, I can tell you it is definitely something a moderately skilled home mechanic can accomplish. It took me about 3.5 hours including the short road test.
I am not a mechanic by trade, but I grew up working on cars, and I do all my own car maintenance. There are no specialty tools required for the job, and you do not have to take a lot of parts off to get to the injectors. The video in post #15 is a great reference that I found very helpful as a starting place, though there are still some details you have to figure out yourself. He does not show replacing the high pressure fuel line, which is a part of the kit in the part number above.
The only tricky part there is the sound insulation foam for the high pressure fuel line is hard to get out around the lines, and the bolt that holds the high pressure fuel line to the head is easily dropped on to the engine in to a place that is hard to get to. A magnetic 10mm socket would be perfect for this job. I used cyanoacrylate glue to hold the bolt into the socket for installation.
The fuel pipe (that distributes fuel to the 4 injectors, 16011-5AA-305) does not need to be replaced when replacing the injectors. All of the connections to the injectors have seals. The high pressure fuel line (16012-5PA-315, part of the injector kit) that goes from the high pressure fuel pump to the fuel pipe must be replaced. It is a one-time-use item according to Honda.
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2017 CR-V 145K. Christmas tree lights up and throws two codes P219D and P0172. According to serveral websites this could have been multiple sensor issues (O2 among them), but specifically it was calling out "Cylinder #2 fuel ratio", running rich?????
The dealership gives me an estimate for $1900 for all kinds of maintenance among which was "change spark plugs" (for $366) to clear the P219D per service bulletin 19-037. Took this to another dealer shop who analyzed the same codes and immediately recommended that the fuel injectors should be replaced.
When I mentioned the possibility of sensor problems they said, no, "from what we've seen" this is always an injector issue. In this instance with upcoming travel commitments, I had no time to play with this myself, so I signed up for the work.
$1500 later, the codes all cleared. Prior to the problem, the car never ran rough, accelerated perfectly and got 38.5 to the gallon. If the thing was truly running rich, in 25% of the cylinder mass, wouldn't the car run a little rough?
Wouldn't the gas mileage be reduced to some degree? Honda has seen a lot of this I believe, they had the injectors in stock. Something smells here and it's not burned oil.
The dealership gives me an estimate for $1900 for all kinds of maintenance among which was "change spark plugs" (for $366) to clear the P219D per service bulletin 19-037. Took this to another dealer shop who analyzed the same codes and immediately recommended that the fuel injectors should be replaced.
When I mentioned the possibility of sensor problems they said, no, "from what we've seen" this is always an injector issue. In this instance with upcoming travel commitments, I had no time to play with this myself, so I signed up for the work.
$1500 later, the codes all cleared. Prior to the problem, the car never ran rough, accelerated perfectly and got 38.5 to the gallon. If the thing was truly running rich, in 25% of the cylinder mass, wouldn't the car run a little rough?
Wouldn't the gas mileage be reduced to some degree? Honda has seen a lot of this I believe, they had the injectors in stock. Something smells here and it's not burned oil.
Gotta love first posts that trot out a conspiracy theory.
YouTube has more than a few video's showing how a DIY'er could do this repair on their own.
One that I really liked and I thought clearly showed everything involved is here: How to replace injectors Honda Accord 1.5 turbo Earthdreams 2018 DIY
This may become one of those repairs, that owners of this generation of CR-V will have to complete on their own in future years as more and more miles are put on the early versions and they age out of any extended warranty or goodwill assistance from Honda.
Personally, I feel it is only a matter of time until Honda sees this is a much larger issue and they conduct a goodwill TSB/extended warranty coverage. As it is, Honda cannot keep up with the demand to provide a ready accessible supply of replacement injector kits and there are numerous data points here indicating there is a multi-week wait on replacement kits for those needing them.
As William stated, there are recommendations to replace all the parts of the fuel system while doing this repair - even the Chilton's Online manual recommends this (I posted this in an earlier post here in this thread). Hopefully you changed the intake gaskets while you were in there that deep - even if they did not need replacement. They're cheap...and you're already in there. It's good that you at least changed the high pressure line - the fuel rail you did not change, you may be ok there...but only time will tell. I believe the critical part is the high pressure line connection to the rail and you covered that.
BTW, did you at least pull the spark plugs to inspect them? You may even want to think of replacement of those with your mileage, if not just a cleaning and checking the gap after dealing with the issues that the injectors presented to the system.
@JLROhio Thank you - I had gone through the thread and saw that post, but I did not watch the video. I should have! It is a good one.
I did not even consider that I could have / should have replaced the silicone intake manifold gaskets. They looked ok, but you are right, it is the sort of preventative "while you are in there" that I would normally do, and would have done if I were more prepared for the job and I had done better research. At least it would be faster the second time if I need to do it again.
It is funny that you mention a Chilton's manual, I have one for my other (older) cars, but not for my 2020 CRV (or the 2012 CRV before that). I will have to get one. These days my first stop for car repair are forums (like this one, thanks guys!) and YouTube. My how things have changed.
One more comment that I should leave well enough alone, but I can't. From @JLROhio and @williamsji about replacing the fuel pipe (fuel rail) (16011-5AA-305) with the injectors. Honda does not appear to be doing it.
![Image]()
A snippet from post 89 in this thread (@redleader74)
16012-5PA-315 - PIPE SET (high pressure fuel pump to fuel pipe (fuel rail) - that part comes in the injector kit now)
17105-5AA-004 - GASKET (intake manifold to head silicone gasket)
17017-5AA-004 - GSKT (throttle body to intake manifold silicone gasket)
16010-5PA-305 - INJECTOR (injectors alone (no longer available). Superseded by the injector kit (06160-5PA-305))
It was a warranty job, so they want to put only the necessary parts on, but surely if the fuel pipe (fuel rail) were a critical part to replace, they would have?
Perhaps there is a terminology difference that makes it confusing on what must replaced with the injectors. I would describe what Honda calls a "fuel pipe" as as a "fuel rail" but the Honda "pipe set" could be called a "fuel pipe" as well.
The Honda fuel pipe (fuel rail) is $412.75 at Bernardi and was not part of what Honda wanted to sell me when I was talking to the service advisor (to be fair, he was also not selling me gaskets, which would have been good). Nor did they install one for @redleader74. Surely Honda can't be putting $400+ one-time-use fuel pipe on all these 1.5L direct inject motors that need injectors at ~60k miles?
I did not even consider that I could have / should have replaced the silicone intake manifold gaskets. They looked ok, but you are right, it is the sort of preventative "while you are in there" that I would normally do, and would have done if I were more prepared for the job and I had done better research. At least it would be faster the second time if I need to do it again.
That is a good point, I should have, but I did not, but I will pull the resonator again and check the spark plugs this week. At least you don't have to do too much to get back in there far enough to get to them.
It is funny that you mention a Chilton's manual, I have one for my other (older) cars, but not for my 2020 CRV (or the 2012 CRV before that). I will have to get one. These days my first stop for car repair are forums (like this one, thanks guys!) and YouTube. My how things have changed.
One more comment that I should leave well enough alone, but I can't. From @JLROhio and @williamsji about replacing the fuel pipe (fuel rail) (16011-5AA-305) with the injectors. Honda does not appear to be doing it.
A snippet from post 89 in this thread (@redleader74)
16012-5PA-315 - PIPE SET (high pressure fuel pump to fuel pipe (fuel rail) - that part comes in the injector kit now)
17105-5AA-004 - GASKET (intake manifold to head silicone gasket)
17017-5AA-004 - GSKT (throttle body to intake manifold silicone gasket)
16010-5PA-305 - INJECTOR (injectors alone (no longer available). Superseded by the injector kit (06160-5PA-305))
It was a warranty job, so they want to put only the necessary parts on, but surely if the fuel pipe (fuel rail) were a critical part to replace, they would have?
Perhaps there is a terminology difference that makes it confusing on what must replaced with the injectors. I would describe what Honda calls a "fuel pipe" as as a "fuel rail" but the Honda "pipe set" could be called a "fuel pipe" as well.
The Honda fuel pipe (fuel rail) is $412.75 at Bernardi and was not part of what Honda wanted to sell me when I was talking to the service advisor (to be fair, he was also not selling me gaskets, which would have been good). Nor did they install one for @redleader74. Surely Honda can't be putting $400+ one-time-use fuel pipe on all these 1.5L direct inject motors that need injectors at ~60k miles?
When you say "Honda refused..." Are you referring to Honda the Corporation or your local Honda Service Department?
Had you opened a case with American Honda (I'm assuming you're US).
If in the US, I strongly recommend you call Honda (800-999-1009 (option 6 & then 5 - M-F 6am-5pm PST ) and ask them to open a case for you and request that they at least pick up the cost of the parts. That has been what they have been doing in many other cases, based upon the numerous discussion points here.
Add in the fact that you have a 2018 w/63k miles...you are the ideal candidate who has been covered for this in the past by Honda.
Remember, Kill em' w/kindness when you speak to them...
and when you ask them...start that part of the conversation with, "Is there any chance...."
Good Luck, and please come back and update your situation - the more data points for those having to pay, the better!!
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Observation: It would NOT be the first time a Honda dealership departed from Honda service instructions and recommendations. But that does not = Honda recommended/required service method and parts.
FACT: Honda the corporation does require the fuel rail and associated components be replaced with the fuel injectors. Reason: very high fuel pressures for direct injection engines, and hence concerns about fuel leaks under the hood, which would be a bad thing.
So... say there was a post injector replacement fuel related leak and fire under the hood, who would be liable here? It would not be Honda Corporate, it would be the dealership that did not follow Honda quality requirements for whatever reason.
When fuel injection was older multi-port and lower pressure fuel feeds they did not require this. BUT.. given the very high fuel pressures used in modern direct injection, Honda quality standards are such that if the injectors are replaced so are the associated fuel feed components connected to the injectors.
This is similar to if you had an electrical harness damaged in your vehicle, while a dealer or independent service provider could probably repair the damage, Honda Corporate requires the complete wiring harness be replaced... for quality control purposes.
First, I'm not being argumentative here...but do you have anything (i.e. Honda Job Aid) or can point me to a post about the Honda recommendation to change out the fuel rail with this type of job.
In my prior post about the Chilton's manual, it only stated to replace the "Fuel joint pipe".
For everyone else, the Fuel Joint Pipe is that curvy pipe, embedded in that insulation material, in the above video (14:44). As to the fuel rail itself, the Chilton's manual just says to change all injectors as a set on the fuel rail.
Chilton's does not call out the fuel rail directly as needing replacement (and I know, Chilton's in not Honda).
I fully agree with the premise about a high pressure fuel line and having all new parts...to avoid any potential leaks (that would undoubtable be catastrophic if one was to occur)...but that fuel rail (in the video's I've seen), looks stout and very reusable.
On the Fuel Joint Pipe, there is what I believe to be, a compression type fitting on each ends of the pipe.
Each side of the Fuel Joint Pipe is tapered, to allow it to slide into the piece it is connected to.
On the Fuel Joint Pipe, a compression fitting tightens down on one side to the Fuel Rail.
The Fuel Rail itself has exposed threads to accept the compression fitting from the Fuel Joint Pipe.
The other compression fitting, on the Fuel Joint Pipe, tightens down on the whatever fuel line is feeding into the engine compartment.
The interchangeability of the terms Fuel Rail and Fuel Joint Pipe is where I started to get confused. Only after going back through this thread, the video's, and some of the posts that people have made showing their receipt and the parts replaced did I understand the differences in these terms. Also, I don't recall seeing anyone's receipt with the fuel rail being shown as a replaced part (I could have missed it).
I just want to clear this up...as even I'm confused now if the fuel rail itself should be an item that folks here may want to bring up, as wanting their service department to change out. I don't have access to the Honda Tech procedure for the job - if you do, or know where one may be obtained, could you possibly post it here? I believe it could be incredibly helpful - as I mentioned in an earlier post, as the years go on and these CR-V's age out of any warranty period/Good will support from Honda, these posts may be referred to as more and more backyard mechanics attempt this job.
Thanks!
Hi all I'm from Toronto Canada, I have Honda CRV 2017 & I'm the first owner. Recently it start throwing all kind of alerts on dash. They come and go. Now from past few days they are permanent.
Did diagnose and got to know its throwing error P0172 "System too rich bank1", P0304 "cylinder 4 Misfire". Vehicle has 160,000Km on it. Emailed to Honda Corporate, they said have a diagnostic done by Honda Dealership and send the report to us. After diagnostic Dealership said it need Head Gasket and Fuel Injectors replacement.
Total cost roughly CAN $ 5000.00 + tax. Head gasket CAN $2742 +tax Fuel Injectors CAN $1498 +tax some other cost CAN $438.00. Honda corporate said we'll cover the cost of parts and you pay labor and labor alone Honda dealership said CAN $3200.00 + tax.
Since this is a known issue, don't you think Honda Corporate should cover the full cost?
Did diagnose and got to know its throwing error P0172 "System too rich bank1", P0304 "cylinder 4 Misfire". Vehicle has 160,000Km on it. Emailed to Honda Corporate, they said have a diagnostic done by Honda Dealership and send the report to us. After diagnostic Dealership said it need Head Gasket and Fuel Injectors replacement.
Total cost roughly CAN $ 5000.00 + tax. Head gasket CAN $2742 +tax Fuel Injectors CAN $1498 +tax some other cost CAN $438.00. Honda corporate said we'll cover the cost of parts and you pay labor and labor alone Honda dealership said CAN $3200.00 + tax.
Since this is a known issue, don't you think Honda Corporate should cover the full cost?
While I would accept the diagnosis for replacing fuel injectors, I would question the need for a new head gasket without additional information. Did they test the compression in the cylinders and found one or more low, or coolant where it's not suppose to be.
It's a very well known issue - well, at least the injector issue is a well known issue based upon user reports here on these boards and elsewhere on the internet. There have been a few reported cases of blown head gaskets for this engine but luckily, no where near the larger number of reported injector issues.
Honda also knows about the injector issue - as there are internal Honda e-mails, that have been posted here, where Honda has asked shops to send back the old injectors for evaluation.
Will Honda cover the full cost - sadly, no they will not. Again, this is based upon reports here - Honda has covered the cost of parts only - the fact that they're going a step further and covering the parts is about as good as you can get now.
...and hopefully, one day, Honda will do as they have done in other instances (Honda Pilot, Honda Fit) and cover the full cost of these repairs under a warranty extension. ...and hopefully again, they will cover the costs of those who previously had to pay for the repairs before the extension, as they (and other manufactures have done) in the past when there is an issue that is beyond the normal expected level of a defect in a product.
So, save your receipts...just in case!!
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Well, if we reference cases where Honda provided the parts and the owner paid for the dealer labor, on a warranty exception basis, Honda provided the full kit not just injectors, just based on the pricing.
a mechanic suggested you run a huge dose of fuel cleaner through direct injection?
lol god don’t do that
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American Honda the corporation.
Yes. I submitted all the documentation I had (e.g. the invoice from my local dealer, a photo I took of the ODBC codes my CR-V was throwing) and got a case number.
They eventually sent me an email telling me they'd reached a decision, and instructed me to call them back. When I did so, they informed me that they could not reimburse me, even partially.
I never spoke to anyone exactly, except for very briefly when I called and got rejected. They initially requested the details of my situation via an online form of some sort. I was definitely not unkind though, it's not really my style.
🤷‍♂️
I'm flabbergasted in reading your reply. It's not something that I believe I have read other experiencing, especially considering how newer your vehicle is (than mine) and the many lower amount of miles.
Sorry to seem like I'm digging but I believe your story is a VERY important data point going forward for anyone unlucky enough to encounter this same issue. Had Honda provided you any reasoning on their decision. I believe whatever that reasoning is, is key. The only thing that comes to mind is if you told them you were involved in any sort of commercial type driving (i.e. Uber, Grubhub, etc...). Again, I'm just astonished that they turned you down as that is not the norm from others that have shared their stories.
At this point, if it were me (and I'm sure some around here can understand that comment), I'd keep at it and go back to Honda and ask again - What's that saying? HUCA (Hang Up & Call Again). You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Ask if there is a higher level review that you could request? Insurance companies, the government, etc...all have higher level reviews...maybe Honda does too??? Only way to find out is to ask.
Good Luck going forward and please....let us know if anything changes and we can have more data points.
Actually, going straight back to Honda Corporate probably is not the best idea.
Instead, he should ask the dealership if they might connect him with someone at the district level that visits the area periodically. Then connect with that person and, preferably, meet them in person when they are next in the area.
That sounds like a very good course of action to take as well!
I don't believe I've read that type of action/notification, in dealing with this particular issue. Most of what I recall reading here usually got resolved at the cooperate level but desperate times call for another course of action.
I've heard of getting zone or district level mgmt involved with an issue early on in an situation but that was usually at the beginning stages with a unique case. In this case, if the district level person could review the details of the case, and based upon their own experience and knowledge into this particular issue, maybe they could take it back up to corporate with their support (or possibly do something at their level).
Either way, I feel that whatever happens with @eachdarkelm will be a valuable learning data point for the collective here that have a stake in this issue.
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