Where are all the previous replies? How can anyone beneft if all the discussion has been deleted? The reason for the fluttering noise that occurs after startup is due to a weak spring in the locking plunger inside the variable valve timing camshaft sprocket. The problem is solved by replacing the weak spring with one that is new and slightly stronger.

 

As TDK said, nothing has been deleted. The point of this thread is to have a central discussion of this issue. It’s quite pointless to have a new VTC actuator thread started every week. Thank you for providing useful information in your post. It will be helpful to all members looking to resolve this issue.

 

This is a new thread to amalgamate responses for this topic. Nothing has been deleted.

 

I tried the spring trick about two months ago and must have lost the plastic guide pin spacer thing because I made it worse . I just finished putting in a new actuator this morning . ( wifes 2013 ).

 

I bought a spring selection from Handyman. Here is a link -

Amazon.com: Handyman Springs SP 9722 Compression Spring, Spring Steel Construction, Nickel-Plated Finish, 0.028 GA x 7/32 In. x 1-3/8 In. (4 Pack) : Industrial & Scientific

Shop Amazon for Handyman Springs SP 9722 Compression Spring, Spring Steel Construction, Nickel-Plated Finish, 0.028 GA x 7/32 In. x 1-3/8 In. (4 Pack) and find millions of items, delivered faster than ever.

www.amazon.com

I have not yet replaced the spring but when I do I will compare the original to my selection and choose the one that fits without binding and provides slightly more pressure. Choose carefully because it is a fair amount of work to do it more than once. When I get around to it I will post some actual measurements of the original and replacement springs. This post has provided some incentive to quit procrastinating. We have a short road trip scheduled this week so maybe around mid July...........

I believe Banks99 was the one that steered me in the right direction. Thank you

 

Funny enough I found an Kijiji Ad in my neighborhood for a mechanic looking for people with the VTC rattle so they can try a fix for free in exchange for their feedback. I connected with the individual and he is indeed changing the spring. Wonder if he is a member of this forum!

 

Wow, that's interesting. A couple of things straight off; 1) if he's doing it for free, one would have to guess it's not too much trouble doing it? 2) if this is something that would actually work, why hasn't Honda thought of it and implemented it?

I hope this person or anyone fixing theirs with a diff spring is successful, that would be awesome for sure.

 

I replaced my VTC actuator myself watching tons of YouTube videos. It was not that bad at all, I did it without unbolting the cams. I just removed both intake and exhaust sprocket together. Removing the cams is not necessary at all.

1 year later the start up rattle noise is still gone.

 

I replaced my VTC actuator myself watching tons of YouTube videos. It was not that bad at all, I did it without unbolting the cams. I just removed both intake and exhaust sprocket together. Removing the cams is not necessary at all. 1 year later the start up rattle noise is still gone.

I am doing same. When you put actuator on did you have to lock it or keep it unlocked?

 

Hmmmm, I have a 2014 that has had the 1st actuator replaced when it had under 50K on it, replaced under warranty, but now it is back. I have 117500 on it. So, what is the general consensuses on replacement? Try the spring fix, or a new actuator? I did watch one video on doing this, but are there any specific ones that you would recommend? Does anyone have a manual that can show the torque specs? I do have the shop manuals for the 2005/2006 CRV, I am not sure how much has changed on the engine between the models, I am curious to know if it is similar enough? Do you need to replace the valve cover gasket and the spark plug tube seals at this time? any other maintenance that needs to be checked when the cover is off? Thanks for any info/input

 

I've replaced my VTC about 12 months ago with the updated Honda part. The rattle started coming back a few months ago. Has anyone tried an aftermarket VTC? I see there are a lot of options and I'm tempted to try one since the OEM part isn't a 100% fix.

 

I believe someone tried one for rock auto and it failed pretty quickly.

 

And how are they running with the spring replacement or stretching it?

 

So far so good on my wifes 2012. Again, our Canadian winter will be the true test to determine if the rattle returns. I will keep everyone updated!

 

I have read about some that did not work with the spring changed or stretched. I think that could be because it was allowed to do the rattle for too long and may have worn too much around the hole or ?
I guess it is a hit and miss on what the spring tension should actually be to properly do the job. When you all have removed the original spring about how far does it uncompress?

 

It uncompressed to 25mm, I tried similar compression springs but greater length and they failed in a few days and stretching the spring did not work for me either. I had to use a narrower spring with higher tension, coiled it inside the OEM spring (i.e., a spring inside a spring) and then re-installed it. Thus far this has worked the best for me but the tension is considerably higher than the stock spring was. For some TSX/Accord owners, a higher tension spring caused a check engine light but doesn't seem to be the case for the CRV (YMMV). This is likely because the high tension spring does not allow the VTC to "unlock" thus causing issues with advance/retard of the camshaft.

Its a very simple design when you think about it. I wonder how newer VTC's were designed to remedy the rattling issue.

 

What I meant about uncompress is, when the cover is removed how much spring is sticking out?

 

Ah, tough to say! I did not take that measurement. If I can find a used VTC at the junkyard I'll disassemble it and post the results here.

 

Why are people so concerned with this? I have the noise and it lasts about 1 second on cold start up.

 

Concerned ? Essentially it is acting like an impact wrench of sorts each time it does that. It likely does not hurt the actuator when rattling, but it does impart that back and forth action to the timing chain.
I have read cases where at some point in time down the road, that some have had timing chain stretch and or failure as in valves hitting pistons etc. I'm sure it doesn't do the timing chain any good at all.
And yes many folks say they have gone like that for years.
The reason for the rattle other than not being locked because of that pin, is because its waiting for oil pressure, the tensioner is also waiting for oil pressure at the time, so there is a chance of chain slack that could cause it to jump, then of course there is those seconds of added high stress to components of the timing chain. Just wanted to explain the concern.

 

Concerned ? Essentially it is acting like an impact wrench of sorts each time it does that. It likely does not hurt the actuator when rattling, but it does impart that back and forth action to the timing chain.
I have read cases where at some point in time down the road, that some have had timing chain stretch and or failure as in valves hitting pistons etc. I'm sure it doesn't do the timing chain any good at all.
And yes many folks say they have gone like that for years.
The reason for the rattle other than not being locked because of that pin, is because its waiting for oil pressure, the tensioner is also waiting for oil pressure at the time, so there is a chance of chain slack that could cause it to jump, then of course there is those seconds of added high stress to components of the timing chain. Just wanted to explain the concern.

I called my Honda Dealer this morning about my new (to me) 2013 CRV that I purchased last week for my daughter. I'm getting that 2 second VTC grind after start. He suggested that I turn on the ignition for 5-10 seconds prior to starting to allow the oil pump to operate. He suggested that this would likely abate the symptom should I not wish to spend immediate money on a repair. I intend to try it at least.....but eventually I plan to get this repaired as my novice 16 year old is operating the vehicle.

 

Heyn guys,
I'm new here and have an engine failure due to low oil. Oil light ever came on. The VTC thing has me interested. We had the dealer install a factory remote starter a couple years ago. Ever since that install the car had this grind after the initial startup for a couple seconds. didn't do it after the car was warm. Sounds like when you turn the key on a running car back in the day. I just figured the sound was from the remote starter and didn't worry too much about it. It sounds like the VTC can cause engine failure if the low oil is not caught? Is this true?

 

I purchased the springs as noted in an earlier post. Purchased a set of T5 Torx.
Here is the pics of the new spring install. I could see no reason to remove the VTC from the camshaft. I did stuff a rag in the opening, in case I got the fumble fingers. Dropped the T30 Torx before getting the last bolt loose. Had to use vice grips. Darn T30 is hiding someplace in all that plastic that covers the bottom of the engine. Went to the hardware store and purchased 5 new bolts. I wound the new spring inside the old spring and cut the new spring 1/8" longer than the old spring. Noise is gone for now.

Richard

 

I purchased the springs as noted in an earlier post. Purchased a set of T5 Torx.
Here is the pics of the new spring install. I could see no reason to remove the VTC from the camshaft. I did stuff a rag in the opening, in case I got the fumble fingers. Dropped the T30 Torx before getting the last bolt loose. Had to use vice grips. Darn T30 is hiding someplace in all that plastic that covers the bottom of the engine. Went to the hardware store and purchased 5 new bolts. I wound the new spring inside the old spring and cut the new spring 1/8" longer than the old spring. Noise is gone for now.

Richard



View attachment 157532

Great info. Thanks for posting. I am thinking about doing this spring replacement on my 2012 this weekend. Looks pretty straightforward.

It probably doesn't matter for this application, but what grade are the new hex head bolt you put in? (I can't see the head markings in your photo). I was ordering the spring from amazon already, so figured I may as well get bolts (I like the hex heads vs torx).


M6 x 30mm Hex Head Screw Bolt, Fully Threaded, Alloy Steel Grade 12.9, Black Oxide Finish, Quantity 25: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: M6 x 30mm Flanged Hex Head Bolts Flange Hexagon Screws, 304 Stainless Steel 18-8, Plain Finish, 25 PCS : Industrial & Scientific

 

Richard....I wish I knew half of what you are talking about and showing me in those photos so that I could tackle the same project. Or I wish you lived next door to me!

I hope the repair keeps your CRV quiet for many moons to come.

 

Jabba2,
We all have something that we accel at. I just happen to be a wrench swinger. I'm sure you learned a way to make a living. Started wrenching on my bicycle and ended repairing RVs. I'm pushing 80 so closely that I can see the candles & fire extinguisher headed my way. GRIN

Richard

 

Hey wait a minute. Richard! You are my neighbor! I live in Kansas City lol.

 

Thank you for your post rls7201. I was wondering if it is necessary to remove the sprocket in order to change the spring. Your pictures show that it is not necessary. Good. I will be doing the replacemt spring soon and I will post a comment.

 

Nice pictures etc. Now I'd really like to know where to buy or get the spring at. And the dimensions of it? I wish there where photos of the springs and such.

 

See post #8, Deano-444 listed an Amazon site for the springs You can thank him for the home work. .
0.028 GA x 7/32 inch x 1-3/8 inch
Amazon

Richard

 

Thank you all for the info.

 

I changed the spring in my VTC sprocket a couple days ago. I used a stronger spring from Handyman kit SP-9722.
I cut off about two coils to make it the right length. It is stronger than the original but oil pressure can still release the pin. So far all is good. I do not expect to hear the noise again. Thanx to all who have contributed to this topic.

A couple additional notes............
No need to remove the entire sprocket or cam or timing chain. Just remove the five bolts on the VTC cover. The bolts require a five point torx bit. I purchased a selection for the job but the tool began to round off so I ended up using a small vise grip to break them loose. I replaced them with hex head bolts of the same length. Valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seals can be re-used if you are careful and use a light coat of oil or grease on them. The only part I replaced was the VTC lock spring.

 

I used a stronger spring from Handyman kit SP-9722.
I cut off about two coils to make it the right length.

 

Here's a video I found that explains how the VTC actuator works and the source of the rattling noise. I am not a mechanic but this may shed some light on the "will it damage the engine" question. Draw your own conclusions. Hope this helps!

 

The five bolts that secure the VTC cover plate are 6mm x 1.00mm. Thread length is 1.2 inches or 30mm. I replaced mine with hex head.

Bolts are definitely 6mm 1.0

 

Thank you so much!

 

Hi all, wanted to provide an update. I am now at 6 mo. with the new spring installed. Rattle only returned when we were due for an oil change. After the oil change I heard it maybe once or twice and then it subsided. Temps are dropping here up north so I will update again if anything changes with this.

 

https://spring-start.com/ I came across this website when searching for other stories of people just replacing the spring...

 

Ha, I've met the fellow that launched this site. He was doing quite a bit of research and had custom springs made. Nice guy. Wish him the best!